The Instigator
ollie342
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
blackhawk1331
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

The Allies could have ended the Holocaust earlier

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
blackhawk1331
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/20/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,454 times Debate No: 14444
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (1)

 

ollie342

Pro

Multiple reports were given to the Allies, namely America and Britain, and they refused to act on them. Their argument at the time was that they did not want to divert resources from the hammering of Germany. However, Germany's great Luftwaffe was almost entirely destroyed by the time these reports were out and the Allies could do something of them (late 1944). There were pleas for Allied Aircraft to at least destroy the supply lines to some of the concentration camps but again weak promises were made and these was never actually done. Had the citizens of the Allied nations (again America and Britain) known about these things, there would have been outrage and demand for something to be done. In short, the Anti Semitism of the era was felt by everyone and not just the Nazi nation.
blackhawk1331

Con

Thank you for offering this debate, and good luck to you ollie324.

Now, could you please produce some of these reports? Make sure they are highly accepted by historians. Also, make sure they are straight fact. Remember, yellow journalism had emerged by this point, and reporters were stretching the truth, and telling lies in order to sell papers.

Now, you mention diverting resources from hammering Germany, and proceed to argue against this by stating that air support could be provided. I've read many books on WW2, and it is quite common for pilots to talk about the difficulty of the bombing runs. One that stands out is a series of attacks on a Romanian oil plantation that was German controlled. This was an important plant, and it was imperative that it was eliminated. The allies struggled greatly, and lost many pilots trying to bomb it. Now, why would they bomb supply trains feeding non frontline soldiers when they could spend all their resources knocking out oil, and as a consequence, all machinery. Think about this, ships, tanks, cars, and factories would all become useless. Why would you give up this opportunity that would guarantee an end to bomb some supply trains? I'd also like to point something out with this train business. The Jews were transported in trains. That means that rather than destroying supplies, you could potentially kill a train-full of Jews. Were would you be then? Now, you could argue that the specific train had just supplies, but what do you think would happen if supplies couldn't get through? Do you think the Nazis would release the Jews? Ha! They would have lined them up and killed them. Then they would have left. That means that even the Jews that did end up surviving would have died.

Finally, you state that everyone was anti-Semitic. This cannot be true. Look at history, read books from people who experienced the concentration camps be it through living in them, or liberating them. I will take two examples. One from a camp survivor, and one from the Easy Company. Many of you will recognize them from the HBO series Band of Brothers. The survivor is Elie Wiesel, the author of Night. He, in the books beginning, talks about how none of the Jews believed that the concentration camps existed, or were a threat at least. One person who was shipped off upon German occupation escaped, and reported that the camps existed and were a threat. He told of people digging holes to then be shot and buried in them. He also told of babies being thrown into the air and shot with machine guns for practice. Then, the Jews were moved to ghettoes, and then shipped to the infamous Auschwitz. They never believed that they were going to actually get to the camps until the moment they walked in the gate. They had ample time for escape and/or rebellion, but they chose not to because they though nothing could happen. Are you going to say a Jew was anti-Semitic? No. If the Jews being shipped off didn't even believe in the camps, how can you expect the general public to believe them, and even more importantly act on it. On a last note for the general public getting in, most of the country was already a part of the war. Women and men who couldn't fight worked factories creating supplies, and all those who could fight did. It was embarrassing to men to not fight. While criticizing the public, remember that this war brought the nation closer together than it had been in awhile. Now, the soldiers from E company report how unremarkably accurate the book and movie Band of Brothers are. In the ending parts, a few members are deer hunting. They then stumble upon a concentration camp. Now, if the US government had reports from trusted people such as government spies, don't you think the soldiers would have been told to keep an eye out for camps especially if they're paratroopers that are behind enemy? How come the soldiers were shocked and disgusted to discover a camp they had never known existed?

Now for one short argument of my own. How could they possibly end the Holocaust when they couldn't end the war? For one example, think of Operation Market Garden. It was supposed to end the war by Christmas 1944. The war wasn't officially over for 15 days short of a year later. Market Garden failed miserably. How could we stop the Holocaust when we couldn't even stop the war sheltering it? Plus, think of the Japanese. They needed 2 atomic bombs to surrender. Millions of their people had to die before they quit.

Once again, thank you for the debate.

To end, I will pull a little saying from a concentration camp survivor.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak for me." [1]
- Martin Niem´┐Żller

Give that some thought.

[1] http://www.ushmm.org...
Debate Round No. 1
ollie342

Pro

ollie342 forfeited this round.
blackhawk1331

Con

Extend all arguments. Thank you.

Oh, and remember this.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me
And there was no one left to speak for me."
- Martin Niem´┐Żller
Debate Round No. 2
ollie342

Pro

ollie342 forfeited this round.
blackhawk1331

Con

Extend all arguments. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
ollie342

Pro

ollie342 forfeited this round.
blackhawk1331

Con

Extend all arguments. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by blackhawk1331 6 years ago
blackhawk1331
When did you say that?
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
like i said blackhawk, pushing me away wont help, the fact that hes a troller will stay.
Posted by blackhawk1331 6 years ago
blackhawk1331
Koopin, that would make sense.
1stlord, I've never heard that. I'm not saying it's false necessarily, but you have to remember that even most Germans hated Hitler, and they didn't fallow him for anti-semetic reasons. I would ask where you got that info,but I would rather that ollie342 find it himself, so please don't provide a source.
Posted by Koopin 6 years ago
Koopin
I think ollie342 is TheMasterDebator, he always votes for him.
Posted by 1stLordofTheVenerability 6 years ago
1stLordofTheVenerability
Blackhawk, the one point that ollie has going for him, and it may sway the debate in his favour, is that anti-Semitic feeling was universal (even experienced in Canada and the United States) - Hitler voiced popular opinion, initially, and then acted somewhat more harshly...
Posted by blackhawk1331 6 years ago
blackhawk1331
WTF ollie342. Koopin, after you said about him voting against you for no reason, I checked a debate I did. I should have won easily. No one voted, so I did. I checked back and saw someone voted all for my opponent. Look at the debate.
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Koopin 6 years ago
Koopin
BTW, fill out your big issues so I can debate you to the ground!
Posted by Koopin 6 years ago
Koopin
Ha ha ha ollie342, I will stop when you stop giving all seven points to my opponents for no reason.

Report me if you wish, I shall do the same.
Posted by blackhawk1331 6 years ago
blackhawk1331
Who gives a crap about who's a troll. Grow up and debate. Ollie342, if Koopin wants to post fail to all of your debates, why does it matter? Is it really goin to change your life? Dinokiller, I don't even know where you're thoughts are coming from. Now, ollie342, could you please enter aguments instead fo comment?
Posted by ollie342 6 years ago
ollie342
I'm a troll for starting a serious debate? I'll be koopin for a minute. FAIL
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
ollie342blackhawk1331Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Cons arguments remained unchallenged and was available for every round