The Instigator
rangersfootballclub
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
JonathanSmits
Con (against)
Winning
68 Points

The American dream , is it just a dream ?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 11 votes the winner is...
JonathanSmits
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 10,181 times Debate No: 7486
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (11)

 

rangersfootballclub

Pro

Ahhhh the American dream , anybody can be anything they want , as long as the work hard ... oh yeah , also you have to be white , male , young and rich.

There are so many americans that belive that , no matter who you are , you can be anything from a bin man to the president . However , is this true ? I tink not , notice how America , still has cases of rascism in its goverment and even its law.

Barrack Obama and several other people are rare excpetions , because just about all Ethnic minority backgrounds are under-represented and mainly poor.

notice how , most famous people in America are white , male and rich ? because I think a large amount of of the u.s.a is still biased , and has a diffrent american dream . The acots you see on the t.v are white and rich and glamourous , does the u.s media think that if they put a poor hispanic or black person on the t.v for a programme , like friends or soemthing , will turn off viewers ?

I will leave my opponent to argue his/her case.
JonathanSmits

Con

I would like to wish my opponent luck, and hope for a good debate.

First of all, you vaguely cover cases of racism in law and government. If you could better explain those cases that would be appreciated.

You claim that Barrack Obama and others are rare "exceptions". Though they may be rare, I see no reason they are exceptions. Barrack Obama was a little boy, with a dream to be president. Now he is the President of America. I would say his "American Dream" has been fulfilled.

Most famous people in America are white, male and rich? Way off.
First of all, people get rich off being famous. Having roles in movies not only makes people famous, but pays very good as well.
Second, for every famous male I could name, I'm sure I could name a famous female. Actors and actresses, musicians , and athletes are a few categories that have a large amount of males and females
Thirdly, stating that most famous people are white, is ridiculous. Id like to bring attention to the NBA, BET, and the Hip-Hop/ Rap music genre. The main contenders in the mentioned categories are black.

Talking about TV and actors, you say they are white and rich and glamorous.
In some cases, the program may be about white, rich, glamorous people.
Black people have their own shows, Bill Cosby was very popular. Michael Jackson is black.. Tyler Perry is doing well. Tiger Woods is rather popular. Flava Flave WAS popular.

My point is that there are many famous people that are not white males.
Debate Round No. 1
rangersfootballclub

Pro

I do not now how i could expand on ym point of rascism in goverment , except from the obvious fact the are very very under-represented for the amount of people from that background , for instance hispanics , there is very little of them that are in high places , yet they are the fasted growing group in the u.s.a and in around 30-40 years are esitmated to make white people a ethnic minority in the U.S.

In my view , barrack obama , even made it this far , or was allowed to because the goverment said , hey why not have a black guy in with the voters see how it turns out ? It shows the American people are ready to see change and are happy to have ethnic minorites in power , but that the goverment and media are not really . Because they think that the American dream is for "real americans " who white and rich and even female , but mainly male.

Look at a list of american billionaires , all the top ones are male and white , well not all but most of them.

you arguer that they are lots of black role models etc and celebrities , of course there will be , but thats because there are millions of black people in the u.s.a so i dont think all off them will never make it famous , but what i am saying is in comparison most successful people "living the american dream " are white and born rich.
JonathanSmits

Con

You have not defined what the American dream is and taking into account what you are saying, it seems you think the American dream is being rich and famous, when this is not the case.

"you arguer that they are lots of black role models etc and celebrities , of course there will be , but thats because there are millions of black people in the u.s.a so i dont think all off them will never make it famous"

Everybody cannot be famous, because then fame itself would disappear.

The American Billionaires list may have some white men in it , but that does not mean they are famous.

Your entire argument is a rant, seeing as how you never even define the point you are defending. I believe your entire case to be invalid due to the fact that you have no solid ground on which to base your argument off of.
Debate Round No. 2
rangersfootballclub

Pro

How can i have soild ground to base my argument off when there is no real meanging to the american dream as it does not techniqually exsist ?

my arguemnt is not at all a rant , how is it when i ahve clearly stated several points and also gave me own defintion off the american dream , which by the way is not just being rich and famous , but that is the general concept , my view is that it is , anybody can be whatever they want.

You say my argument is a rant but you have presented no more off a soild case than i have , for you could say this argument is based around not as much facts , but more views.

Also i think jsut about every billionaire in the world is famous ...
JonathanSmits

Con

I will post my final rebuttal in point form:

1. The American Dream does exist
http://en.wikipedia.org...
"The American Dream is a phrase referring to the freedom that allows all citizens and most residents[1] of the United States to pursue their goals in life through hard work and free choice" - quote from Wikipedia.
People such as Immigrants have to work for their claim, much like the original immigrants to America did. They cant just come in and get everything they want, but have to build up to it through hard work.

2.Your not defining the American Dream, but rather how you picture life in America should be, so it is irrelevant to the American Dream.

3.Every billionaire in the world?

LEE SHAU KEE HongKong $11.1 billion

Anyone else know who that is ?

My opponent is not talking bout the American Dream, he is talking about being rich and famous, saying it is the American Dream. He is debating a different topic then what the topic stated.

Thank you for the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by hunter.0819 6 years ago
hunter.0819
wow everyones so opinionated! wow im almost speechless other than how all these people are commenting wow y didnt u guys just debate u might have won jees u cant win em all hmmm minorities over represented ...?maybe ...sometimes but not all the time I honestly think that it is hard to empathize with anyone if you have never been were they are for me if im not in the same category as them i usually dont speak on it I ask questions instead . Yes I am a minority and I do not believe in affermitive action however there were a lot of factors contributing to the start of affirmitive acion .THE END :):):):):) chill nd smile :)
Posted by Angrypants66 7 years ago
Angrypants66
I like how Pro tells me to learn how to read, then misspells nearly every word... Humoruous much :D
Anyways, well tell me then if your from scotland then you would have no idea about this American Dream, correct? You have to live in this country to understand it's beauty, I've lived in Great Brittian, Russia, and now America, and boy o' boy America was the right choice.
I would rebuttal my arguement, but it seems Rawlsfulcopter refuted everything perfectly, well said sir.
Posted by Rawlsfulcopter 8 years ago
Rawlsfulcopter
I must say that was one of the worst topics I've seen. Angrypants asks if pro has ever left the country, I ask if he has ever left his hometown. Of the dozens of scholarships I've read through in my school bulletin, 9 out of 10 are for low income students only, and probably about half are for minorities only. Affirmative action and race quotas discriminate against white males. When my uncle was in law school, he got no help, but there were black students who got in with weaker resumes and had everything paid for who were from much more wealthy families than my uncle. Who cares if most famous people are white in a country that is 80% white. I know a lot more than 20% of famous people are minorities, so they're actually over-represented. It would be much easier to try and prove the opposite of what pro stated.
Posted by MitchellDeYoung 8 years ago
MitchellDeYoung
Your argument was: the american dream can only be obtained by rich whiites :

you stated the opposite was true, so you lost.
Posted by rangersfootballclub 8 years ago
rangersfootballclub
I am sick on tired of people saying you conceive the debate jsut because you say one thing ! if i conceeded the debate why would i continue to argue ! ? shows the attitude of the people on thi site .... and as for you angry pants i live in scotland not the u.s ....... anybody ever considered what i was saying ? sorry if i didnt make it clear , but by waht i meant is that incaswe you cannot read , you are more likley to succed in your american dream if you are white and rich , i didnt say it was impossible , learn to read !
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
And for Obama, that doesn't show we are seperated for racism, if anything it brought it back up.
For example, alot of his votes were only cuz he was black. I was told that by several voters.
And I can promise this topic would have never arrised if Obama wouldn't have been in the election race.
It's because it brought the idea up again, when it should be ignored. It's so small now it's irrelivant. We have more things to worry about. Maybe focus on worse things like murder, rape, and drugs? Or maybe the fact our country is sinking in debt. Wake the fuckk up.
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
This is just more complaining about America. Seriously has Pro ever been anywhere other than the U.S? America is the fairest country out there, with the least corruption and racism out of the major countries out there. Go to France as a hispanic, or a black, the world is a lot worse than appears.
I will agree however racism does still exist in the U.S, however it has become so insignificant that is irrelivant to today. Murder is horrible, but still happens, Rape is horrible, still happens. You can not ever completely end racism, ever. But you can irraticate it from the government, which it IS. Seriously, tell me one law that has been passed or governmental decision that has passed in the last decade that is 'racist'.
Actually I'd like to say Pro has his crap backwards if anything. Unless your in the deep South, it is backwards, it's HARDER for a white to make it now-days. Sound crazy? It's not. Because of whats happened in the past, people are now over-protective of all other races over whites. At my job at McDonalds, it is owned my Latinos, ONLY Latinos. I have been discriminated and denied promotion time and time again because I'm not Mexican. Yet I win employee of the month every month, and have single handedly increased are profits by over 50%. I've worked there a year and half, yet I'm still ordinary crew. Yet someone of Mexican race gets promoted before, yet has only worked there for one year, and is known as the laziest employee we have. Racism? Yes, against white people. Odd huh?
Yet courts look down upon it because of it being white. However if I was black and they were white, that'd been jumped a long time ago, and we all know that.
But I ignore it, because my philosophy is that if you work hard enough and push hard enough, you will get what you want, your "American Dream". There may be 'racism' anywhere and to anyone and you may have to work harder, but you know what? That's freaken life, you DO work harder and show them you can get your "Dream".
Posted by girlforgod21 8 years ago
girlforgod21
"It shows the American people are ready to see change and are happy to have ethnic minorites in power...". The election of president Barack Obama doesn't show that the American people are happy to have ethnic minorities in power. It shows that people are swayed easily by smooth politicians who make promises that they cannot keep. Many Americans think that Obama is charming, handsome, and a good public speaker with some good plans to change America for the better; however, Obama already told the public that a lot of his platforms when running where he made promises are not going to happen - he cannot keep those promises (i.e.: taking the troops out of Iraq within a year). And sure, Obama is a good public speaker -- when the speech is written out for him. In a debate without notes on what his opponent was going to say, Obama would not do all that well. (A little side note here: I believe that a lot of people did not vote for McCain because they thought that he would continue the deficit that Bush had, which was considerably large for the year 2008. Many democrats did not like this deficit, and therefore chose to vote Obama, thinking that as a democratic candidate, he would not run the deficit that high -- Obama has been president about two months, and his deficit for 2009 is more than all forty-three presidents before him combined.)
Posted by ChristianM 8 years ago
ChristianM
Pro just admitted that the American Dream is acheiveable and hterfore forfeits the deabate.
My vote went to CON

Before-CON
After-CON
Conduct-CON
Speling and Grammar- CON
Convincing-CON
Sources- Tied
Posted by RoyLatham 8 years ago
RoyLatham
Once Pro acknowledges "exceptions" he concedes that it is possible to achieve the dream, even though it may be difficult. That effectively concedes the debate.

Zimbabwe, BTW, is probably the most corrupt, unfair, and saddest place on earth.
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