The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
1stLordofTheVenerability
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

The Americans should send the Irish back where they came from

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/18/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,745 times Debate No: 11464
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (19)
Votes (4)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

The Irish aren't very adventurous with their food and they won't eat pasta, rice, noodles or any other "foreign muck" with their meat so when the potato harvests failed during the late 1840's (1) millions of Irish people emigrated to America dreaming of new lives with an abundance of French fries to go with their succulent lamb chops, juicy pork steaks and rich beef and Guinness pies.

Now, "the luck of the Irish" is a well-known and well-deserved idiom because when they arrived in America the Irish immigrants found potatoes were in plentiful supply and they were able to gorge themselves until their hearts' were content.

However, once the Irish had got their feet under the table in America they became discontented when they observed their New World hosts walking about in their fancy leather shoes and tailored clothes and living in houses with glass in the windows and running water - consumer items that were almost unknown back in Ireland.

So, in order to obtain the cash required to purchase these luxuries, the Irish immigrants formed criminal gangs such as the Westies and the Winter Hill Gang (2,3).

These mobsters operated in most major cities in the US and Irish outlaws such as Billy the Kid, Joseph "Mad Dog" Sullivan, Owney "The Killer" Madden, Stephen "The Rifleman" Flemmi, Eddie "The Butcher" Cummiskey and Terry "The Machine Gun" Druggan (4,5) soon became household names across the country.

From these early days of Irish criminality the immigrants' illegal activities grew with their population and so did their level of sophistication.

In December 1978, Jimmy "The Gent" Burke, dubbed "the Irish Guinea" by the mafia, orchestrated the theft of $10million in cash and jewellery from a warehouse at JFK Airport. Incidentally, the story of this heist was later made into the film called Goodfellas in which Robert de Niro played the villainous Irishman. (6)

Sadly, the Irish crime-wave still continues and only yesterday a leprechaun carried out an armed robbery at bank in Tennessee that left two people dead. (7)

So how will America resolve The Irish Problem? In 1930's Germany, the Jews presented Hitler with a similar dilemma and his solution was to gas them.

However, with reducing carbon emissions being so high on the political agenda and with genocide being so out of fashion in America these days the only answer is to send the Irish back where they came from and I therefore urge you to vote Pro in support of this proposal.

Thank You.

(1) http://www.yourirish.com...
(2) http://www.gangland.net...
(3) http://en.wikipedia.org...
(4) http://www.culturenorthernireland.org...
(5) http://en.wikipedia.org...
(6) http://gangstersinc.tripod.com...
(7) http://news.bbc.co.uk...
1stLordofTheVenerability

Con

Greetings Brian, I finally get to debate regarding one of your ludicrous topics. : ) Have fun, and should I bother to ask that you keep it clean? :P

Firstly, my opponent states that the Irish began causing trouble when they saw that the wealthy upper classes were, indeed, wealthy. This is a stereotype, of course. There were many hard working Irishmen whom worked hard and attempted to keep their families fed while their families lived in squalor and filth - sometimes in the slums, unless the Irishman could somehow get his family West or into a respectable position.

Another stereotype occurs when we state that the Irishmen were labourers and dockhands. This is mostly true, but not necessarily always. Yes, the dockhands in New York or Chicago were more often than not brawny Irish stevedores or dockhands, but they weren't all necessarily dockhands, stevedores or ordinary labourers. The United States of America has a lot to thank Irishmen for. Its factories wouldn't have run and its shipping would have palled - what self-respecting Yank wanted to work in horrendous factory conditions, or spend time heaving boxes or shipments at the dockyards? If it weren't for Irishmen, USA shipping may have ground to a halt, as half of the merchant crews were foreign.

William Harnett enriched the culture of the United States by producing illustrious paintings during the late 1800s. Henry Ford is another famed American who was born of Irish parents whom fled the potato famine. A couple of noted Irish military figures whom fought in United States' Armies (I saw 'Armies', as the time ranges and some may have fought in the Continental, the Union, the Confederate, the USA or any of a variety of State militias) or the Navy are John Barry, Michael Corcoran, Stephen Kearney, Richard Montgomery and Richard Sheridan. John Dunlap was an Irishman who first issued copies of the Declaration of Independence. The famed John L. Sullivan was born of Irish parents - what would the boxing ring have been like without ol' Sullivan, tell me that?

Also, my opponent seems to indicate that the only gangsters were Irish. this is, of course, an unfounded assumption. The famed Al Capone was Italian in root, and his gang was quite possibly the most powerful and notorious of the time.

"Charles "Lucky" Luciano was a Sicilian-born American gangster who was born in 1897. He was considered to be the father of modern organized crime in the United States." ( ** Gangsters)

John Gotti and the Gambino family were also Italian.

Jesse James, Butch Cassidy, Harry Longabaugh ('Sundance Kid') and many others were famed American outlaws. Jefferson Davis, though technically not an outlaw, was a Kentucky man that caused the death of more people than all of the Irish gangster combined.

As such, I have ruled that the Irish have helped more than hindered, and that people of other nations (including the USA) have caused more trouble than all of the Irish combined. Furthermore, I have already proven that it is thus morally wrong to evict the Irish from a nation where they've dedicated so much. Irish soldiers have fought for the USA in all of its conflicts and been patriotic ever since. Evicting them would be a moral injustice.

* Prominent Irish-Americans: http://en.wikipedia.org...

** Gangsters: http://www.xomba.com...

*** Gangsters II: http://www.legendsofamerica.com... Longabaugh, aka Sundance Kid, Frank Smith, H.A. Brown, Harry A. Place, Harry Long (1867-1911)

Jefferson Davis: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

With many thanks to 1stLordofTheVenerability* for accepting this challenge I should just like to make it clear that I have got nothing against the Irish, even though I'm British and they used to send terrorists over to Britain to bomb us.

In fact, some of my friends are Irish – you can't go to the pub as regularly as I do without making the acquaintance of an Irishman or two! No, all I'm saying is they are not like Anglo-Saxons, that's all.

I mean, while they are quite willing to put themselves out, whether it be to rob a bank or pilfer some contraband goods while loading ships, they are also happy to live in substandard accommodation just so long as they have enough money to buy French fries and Guinness on a wholesale basis. My opponent himself acknowledged this when he wrote: "There were many Irishmen whom worked hard… while their families lived in squalor and filth."

It's always been that way with Irish and it always will be. Please take a moment to review the following old photographs of Irish people:

http://www.folkleads.org.uk...

http://www.folkleads.org.uk...

Now here's some photographs that illustrate the way they live today:

http://www.paveepoint.ie...

http://www.fotothing.com...

Not much improvement is there?

Although my opponent did cite some Irish-Americans that were not famous for being criminals, they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

In conclusion, since the Irish are generally incapable of bettering themselves, they are certainly not capable of bettering their adopted nation, and for this reason I reaffirm that they should be sent back to Ireland where they came from.

Thank you.

* Cool name, by the way!
1stLordofTheVenerability

Con

Thanks, Brian. :D I rather like my chosen monicker, myself.

And I also was quite sure that this was a light hearted banter, as well, as clarified in my entry in Round 1, following the line of many other of your debates. And thus, even though the IRA and the like sent terrorists about England to cause damage, this couldn't be reflected upon the upstanding Irishmen. ; )

My opponent's pictures have likely been found and random, and it cannot be clarified at all that those actually are Irishmen, if they are living in that standard, if many of them are living at that standard or even if in the paveepoint link they're merely camping or hunting and having a generally good time.

In turn, I could provide some successful and lawful Irish back then:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://s2.hubimg.com...

http://www.aweebitoireland.com...

and now:

http://www.atlanticwave.us... (Taken at the Irish Fest)

http://www.istockphoto.com...

http://www.sapadapaso.org...

My argument/s and images have thus presented that the Irish are, indeed, capable of becoming productive and even respected citizens in the USA. A couple of modern day successful Irishmen include Paul Galvin (founder of Motorola), Tom Monaghan (founder of Domino's Pizza), Jack Welch (former CEO of GE), Alfred Hitchcock, Tom Clancy, Charles Townes (winner of a Nobel Prize in Physics) and many more. (all names found in http://en.wikipedia.org... ).

Also, I feel it necessary not to overlook the fact that it would be prejudiced and against the US Constitution and Bill of Rights to evict any entire group of a single nationality due to unfounded beliefs or accusations.

Thanks for an amusing and enjoyable debate, Brian. :D We shall have to do it again, sometime.

* Note in Round 1 I stated 'Richard Sheridan'. This is of course incorrect - my mind must have wandered. The famed general's name is Philip Sheridan, in case any of you were scratching your heads and wondering what on earth I'm talking about.
Debate Round No. 2
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by obrienkr 3 years ago
obrienkr
Or eliminate me :)
Posted by obrienkr 3 years ago
obrienkr
I Decline to comment on the grounds that it might incriminate me!
Posted by 1stLordofTheVenerability 7 years ago
1stLordofTheVenerability
No matter. : ) Wasn't offended or anything. Got a chuckle out of it.
Posted by tBoonePickens 7 years ago
tBoonePickens
Naw, it wuz the Injuns.
Posted by grahamreiver 7 years ago
grahamreiver
@1stLordofTheVenerability: well i guess that makes me the fool for assuming. i apologize for that one.
Posted by Clockwork 7 years ago
Clockwork
The opening sentence is epic.
Posted by 1stLordofTheVenerability 7 years ago
1stLordofTheVenerability
ha ha, I'm from Canada. :D Not a Yank, mate. :P However, I'm quite aware of Audie Murphy, just didn't know that he was of Irish descent.
Posted by grahamreiver 7 years ago
grahamreiver
Why would you want to send back the people who helped build this country? If you want to base your argument partially on gang warfare, you should send a lot of other ethnicities back to their native lands.
Posted by grahamreiver 7 years ago
grahamreiver
disregard my last comment
Posted by grahamreiver 7 years ago
grahamreiver
I thought the Picts were there first.
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Vote Placed by Mlorg 6 years ago
Mlorg
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