The "Ash in a Coma Theory"
Debate Rounds (3)
I challenge somebody to disprove the theory itself.
If you are unfamiliar with the theory, you can read it at this link:
Rules for this debate are as follows:
It is to be civil.
It is to be friendly.
Acceptable sources include the theory itself, as well as any and all television episodes and video games of the pokemon franchise.
"Did one ever know the reason why the
pacing and story development change after
Ash was hit by lightning in the beginning
Not enough elaboration for me to fully debunk this but anywho. Pacing and story development are the key factors to a successful TV show, imagine the pokemon anime without story development, you're just basically watching someone play the videogame which is plain boring. The reason behind this was because its how people write stories, not some stupid cliche, also the pacing of the show is explained by his suicidal walkabout throughout the lands of Kanto. I'm sure if you were to go on a journey through forests filled with monsters the pacing of your life would change drastically.
"How Ash and his world were rela-tively normal until after the incident?"
Of course his world was normal, he hadn't begun his journey, almost every series of TV or film has that boring/normal introduction to the world, its only later on that we can truly explore their world for what it is.
- The Terminator (Judgement Day!)
- LOST (airport scene, obv. crash)
- Avatar (Marine dude turned into blue alien thing)
- DeathNote (school student turned murderer)
- BlackLagoon (office dude turned pirate (whatever))
etc...are some good examples of this
"If one had noticed, the early episodes of Pok�-
mon were of amazing quality. The rest of the
series is just the results of his subconscious
mind fulfilling his desires, as well as attempt-
ing to escape them. "
This is just a bias opinion from the author of the article, not real evidence that supports his theory.
"This explains why he doesn't change much
How about because its a children's show and no one would put that much thought into something that is designed to entertain 10 year olds, I can't imagine little Timmy screaming "Dis showz been gone for years! wheres Ash's moofstache!"
"Also, the worldwide socialism can
be explained if you once again realize that this
is a dream world; he thought up a safe system
of government that would run smoothly and
keeps the world going allowing his adventures
to work like they do."
Unless the author of the article issues a valid system of government that would work in the world of pokemon, this statement means nothing. Compare it the real world, both worlds have a police force, both worlds have hospitals, both worlds have safe systems of government. If Ash's world didn't have a safe system of government that didn't run smoothly, how can you be sure that his world has hospitals? It contradicts itself too much to be taken seriously.
"It also explains a few
other things, such as how a child can go off on
his own in a world full of dangerous untamed
He never went on his own, tell me, when has he ever went off on his own? He nearly always has two sidekicks with him, he has his own line-up of experienced pokemon (so do his sidekicks). The above statement makes no sense.
"...why every Pok�mon center has
the same exact nurse."
The animators were too lazy to come up with new designs for her, they were probably busy designing the next-gen of pokemon which is what the series is about, not the nurses, also ever heard of OctoMum?
"It's also the reason that every time
he enters a new region, virtually no one has
heard of him, despite his conquests"
The most obvious reason for this is the culture gap. Ever heard of Ahn Jae Wook? Didn't think so, he's a 'Famous' Korean pop singer, yeah that's right, his first album sold over 700,000 copies, but you don't know him. So what is the chance that people would hear about the adventures of a dude who pretty much takes isolated paths when travelling, meeting only isolated people along the way. I think you need 8 badges to challenge the elite four. It's very much possible that hundreds of trainers have conquered them considering how crap of a trainer ash really was at the time, standing toe-to-toe with most of the gym leaders.
"This is also why Brock keeps coming back to the series....Usually AFTER Ash meets a new girl aspect of himself.Misty is an image that Ash had of a girl. This is why she plays
so prevalently in the series but is ultimately unattainable because he never really knew her before the coma. Likely the one that helped get him to a hospital. I have a theory in line with this: Since Misty was his initial love interest (if only subconsciously), he needed her to reach a level of womanhood. He felt that people could only have relationships when
they've matured. But in practice, it turned out he couldn't cope with it and just wanted the normal, pushy, arrogant Misty he knew, and wouldn't let her keep Togepi anymore."
Misty travels with ash because they're both aspiring pokemon masters, so, why not? why not travel together because you're both trying to achieve the same thing and along the way, may develop an interest in each other. However she leaves because she fulfilled her dream goal, eventually becoming a gym leader and as such, no longer needed to travel with Ash anymore. He also doesn't want her to have Togepi because he found the egg or some crap like that.
"Ash has issues With his Father; so he put him atop the evil corporation, and demonized him.
There may be an actual team rocket, and I'm positive they're quite dastardly, but I doubt
that ash's father is their leader, in fact the head of the rockets wasn't really identiﬁ ed as
anyone until later on in the series. The split between ash's parents was likely over ash's
homosexuality and some sort of incident as a catalyst, forcing his father to disown him and
his mother to move out of the city and down to pallet town."
This contradicts the preceding paragraph, above the author stated that Ash's love interest was Misty, a girl. Now he states that Ash was a Homosexual, not Bisexual, but Homosexual. Also, the more logical theory on his dad is that his dad is lost at sea, possibly residing in the stomach of a Wailord, along with his hand carved puppet that he likes to 'Pinnokiachu.'
This theory is so boring and long, I don't think I'll have enough space to debunk the rest of it, but the above annihilates the main cores of the theory and therefore annihilates the rest of it.
Now with what I have left I'll propose my own plausible theory:
Ash is a fictional character created by Red, this fictional character features prominently in Reds Novel/autobiography. The events of the videogame is true canon, and the anime is a visual idea of the novel that Red wrote, the novel which is based on events that occurred during Red's travels. This explains the similarities between the game and the anime, and between Red and Ash. It would also explain the eccentric traits of the characters, being half fiction and half non-fiction
I'd put up a video showing their similarities ingame, but I don't know how to embed youtube videos (anyone?). Yeah I'm a newbie.
1. If you truly read the theory, you would notice that the author states that the pacing SLOWS. Tv shows are successful when the story SPEEDS UP. he even states that the FIRST episodes of the show are of "amazing" quality. as the series continues, they get less interesting.
2. In terms of "normal" the author was not referring to the events, but mostly the fact that there are normal animals and normal activities. As the series progresses, you see none of that anymore.
3. You are speculating as much as the author. It IS evidence that supports his theory because
A.) It fits perfectly with the rest of the theory, which fits perfectly with everything else in the series
B.) It has just as much claim to being the right explanation as any other unPROVEN claim. You cannot discount it just because you feel like it, so it is correct in terms of this debate until you can PROVE that it is not.
4. People put lots of thought into children's shows, and you would be foolish to assume otherwise. Are you aware how much ADULT humor is in a typical Bugs Bunny cartoon? This show has an actual timeline, therefore it would make sense that Ash would age. In fact, many of the 10 year olds this show was marketed for probably ASK why Ash doesn't age at all.
Also, you are making an assumption with no basis that the producers did not put thought into Ash growing older.
You have no support to back up your argument other than the fact that HE DOES NOT AGE, which also backs up the coma theory just as well.
5. The author is acknowledging more the fact that the pokecenters are totally free. Ash rarely is forced to pay for things. Socialism is the exact sort of government that a child would dream up, because it is one in which he does not need money to pay for things. Only in a perfect socialist system could Ash carry on with his adventures the way he does. Every city he comes to is clean, eco-friendly, and utopian. Even the governments in your country and my country are not nearly as perfect as the one portrayed in Pok�mon. Sure, our own governments run smoothly enough, but could a child walk into a health clinic, get treated immediately, and continue on his journey instantly? No. You say "compare it to the real world", well that is what the whole Coma Theory does. It is comparing Pok�mon to the real world and tying it all together in a neat little package. It provides real, sensible answers to questions that people wonder as they get older.
6. I hardly think that other children count as protective company. Brock and Misty and the others later on still count as "on his own" seeing as they are still kids like him and not worth much in terms of life experience.
7. You are assuming the animators got lazy because it supports your argument. You are also assuming that they might all be octuplets together. What parent names all of their daughters who look the exact same "joy"? I believe that it is highly unlikely that they are octuplets.
8. I'm sure that Ahn Jae Wook is very famous in his own country. But how come no ones hears of Ash, the Pok�mon master, even in the next town? You underestimate the speed of word of mouth, for it is likely that at least ONCE word of his approach would reach a town before he did.
9. This does not disprove anything. All you stated was a possible reason that she left, which was already clearly stated by the show. Because Ash's subconscious is not going to just "vanish" her. NO. she needs to leave for a reason. So it only fits that she fulfills her goals and leaves him, but the overall scheme of things is purely within his subconscious.
10. How is it any more likely that his father is lost at sea? Your last argument makes no sense.
As to the matter of Ash's homosexuality, it seems that the author is describing what is simply a failed experiment. In the series Ash is just at the point where he would be beginning to feel these feelings, and he would be confused.
11. Your arguments do not annihilate the theory, they just state opinions, assumptions, summaries. The burden of proof, or, shall I say DISproof, rests on your shoulders. Until you can find CONCRETE evidence that contradicts the theory, you are speculating as much as its author, therefore you have no more claim as to who is right than he does.
12. Providing your own theory is completely irrelevant.
The anime, if you knew your Pok�mon history, got its roots from the game. The character "Ash" got his name because it was on the original list of name choices in the game "Pok�mon Red'.
The games came FIRST and the series took off on its own after that, and became its own separate thing.
13. Wikipedia is an unreliable source for anything, because anyone can change it to their liking, and bulbapedia is not owned by the Pok�mon franchise, therefore it can be regarded as irrelevant, because the rules were clearly specified at the opening of this debate.
Besides, Bulbapedia is a fan site.
Chronos forfeited this round.
Chronos forfeited this round.
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