The Instigator
the_conservative
Pro (for)
Losing
46 Points
The Contender
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
79 Points

The Attitudes of White and Black people today...Of course this does not apply to every individual.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,964 times Debate No: 2331
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (39)
Votes (29)

 

the_conservative

Pro

Before i begin i would like to say that i am not a rascist,nor Nazi,etc...and this is based on what i see in my school and schools nationwide. I am white and i am Scots-Irish and German but most importantly i am an American. When are the blacks going to start saying they are Americans instead of African-Americans. We don't go around saying we are European Americans,Asian Americans etc......we are a unified country...we know your black you know im white. In the inner-city there are many young kids commiting harsh crimes,getting pregnant,violence,gang-violence,its just ridiculous.So they say this might be because families were torn up during slavery...children were sold and never seen from again. Well you cant use slavery as an excuse for everything..its 2008 not 1865. Then they say well blacks havent been actually "free" for over 40 years...when they are free then they are free. Remember during segregation...the whites were segregated too not just the blacks...so look at both sides. It's just the attitude of the young blacks and whites that i hate...i hatae ignorance basically. I know so many white kids who complain about everything...that they have to work or do this and that....just pure lazyness,I hear black kids say when a good black role model like Frederick Douglas or even Condoleeza Rice they say oh well they just sold themselves out to the white man.Ignorance and irresponable.Oh it wasnt me i didnt do it....of course not. Here in Cleveland they want to prosecute white police officers for shooting and killing a black teenager...(2 years ago)this kid had a knife and was about to stab and kill a police officer ...but no its ok if the police officer dies...why did they have to shoot that poor ghetto black kid who was on drugs and in a gang who was going no where with his life but down the drain other tan killing a police officer who had 3 kids and a wife and a family.I understand tat police brutality does exist but it doesnt mean that it is always happening to black people.If you do the crime you do the time.I could go on but we can get into that next round
Tatarize

Con

You're a racist.

I'm not saying that to be funny or as an ad hominem. I'm just making a statement of fact. The fact is, you don't see it, and can't see it because it doesn't happen to you. You don't have to worry about not getting a job because of the color of your skin nor do you need to worry about the police officers targeting you. You claim you are against ignorance. Well, as it says on the front of the Temple of Apollo: Know thyself.

You are first and foremost an American. And though that is respectable, you don't understand that's it's also a luxury. You are considered by society to be the norm by which others need to adapt.

The real line is that between the poor and the not-so-poor. Poor whites commit as much crime as poor blacks. And due to racism poor blacks remain poor. And though rising out of the slums would certainly be a goal to find worthy, it becomes measurably more difficult when they don't have the same opportunity as their white counterparts. It isn't as overt as a burning cross in somebody's front yard now it's more missing a promotion or not being called back from a job. And not always even for conscious reasons. "That guy struck me as a little bit off."

The kids in the inner-city do commit harsher crimes, they do get pregnant, there are violence crimes and gang-violence. It isn't ridiculous though, it's expected. With no opportunity and no place to go except the inner cities its hard to fit into your expected little box. The families were torn up during slavery and given no opportunity, they were then torn up by direct racism enforced by the state, they were then torn up by direct racism not enforced by the state, they are now torn up by indirect silent racism.

The upward mobility in this country is a travesty. The upward mobility in this country for blacks is a joke. Education is pretty well the silver bullet as far as moving up in the world. And though, now more black kids are going to college than ever before, it certainly is no where as easy as it was for me to attend college. I simply went. My mother wrote several checks as she could afford to do so as she worked as a teacher. She worked as a teacher because she went to college and got her degree in biology. She was given the opportunity to go to college because she attended a private school (which paid for her college) funded by an organization which her father was a member before he died. The school at the time was white only. -- I went to college because my grandfather was given an opportunity, which gave my mother an opportunity, which gave me an opportunity; because he was white, because she was white, because I am white.

I get to walk around and not expect any harsh treatment at all because I am white, nobody looks away, walks on the other side of the street, nobody clenches their purse a little bit tighter. I could expect to be evaluated on my merits by any job I walk into. And, my merits are quite respectable because my opportunities were respectable.

The whites weren't segregated too. That's just stupid. You could drink from the colored fountain, but why would you? Nobody was actually keeping you out of the black bathrooms, they just weren't quite as good. To hear somebody endorsing the idea that separate and equal was less than a racist farce is fairly amusing. The white police officers would have looked at you as if you were stupid, but never arrest you. You could go to the worse poorly funded schools and receive an education. Though, that education would not result in a more opportunities. The idea that segregation was equal or okay because whites were segregated too is unfathomable. "Hey, Whitey get in the front of the bus!"

You wonder why people have an attitude? You wonder why people denied opportunity might complain. Why when you get to fit into society so well that they would just be ignorant and refuse to fit in? It's easy for you it must be easy for everybody. It's the "young blacks... that you hate." You "hatae[sic] ignorance". Why would they ever have such an attitude?

Frederick Douglass (note two 's's) was told by his master that when slaves get education they are no good as slaves any more. So Douglass educated himself and became a leader in the abolitionist movement. Education is the silver bullet. Condoleezza Rice (note two 'e's) said she needed to be "twice as good as minorities" and earned herself a PhD in political science. But, without these opportunities the opportunity of have a mother who taught and a father who was a guidance councilor and minister she could would not have done so well. Had she been killed like her classmate had been by a bomb planted by white supremacists in her church she wouldn't have had the opportunities we have. In fact, we have the opportunity to not need to fear being blown up during Sunday school or needing our fathers to stand vigil against the Klan. To say that overt racism doesn't lead to a lack of opportunity is silly. To think that just because the racism is below the surface that it doesn't exist anymore is even more silly. Thinking that a separate school with less money and crumbling infrastructure is going to give a child equal opportunities is as ignorant as the belief that with less money and crumbling infrastructure a school in the inner city where minorities attend is going to give a child equal opportunities.

I doubt you've heard anything of the sort about Frederick Douglass. I don't think anybody considered him a sell out for running away from his master. Dr. Rice, I could perhaps see as everybody who stays with this administration is could be seen as a sell out for real reasons.

As for the specific story of the white police officers shooting and killing a black teenager who had a knife able to stab through a bullet proof vest with several other officers around; I couldn't find the story. I did find several half a dozen in fact, of unarmed black teenagers getting shot, one kid brandishing an iron, another with a BB gun. Several posts about why the hell are these white cops shooting all these kids. But that specific story couldn't be found. Care to post a link to a specific? Or cite a source?

The idea of specifically damning black people, in general, but not in general with exceptions for the exceptions; that's the definition of a stereotype. All blacks are clearly ignorant drug-using hooligans ready to stab and kill police officers with children and scoff at the opportunities you, as a white person, enjoy... except of course for those who aren't.

Anybody who wasn't ignorant (it is ignorance you hate, after all) like black youths would jump at the opportunities you've been given. Why don't they jump at the opportunities you've been given! They must be stupid!

That's why you run into those "attitudes", because there's still racism and it's a little below the surface but clear as day if you look for it... or suffer through it.
Debate Round No. 1
the_conservative

Pro

First of all you dont tell me what i am, what i believe, or who i am, and most of all don't tell me what i do or don't understand, pal. I quote your statement "You don't have to worry about not getting a job because of the color of your skin",once again don't tell me what i worry about but anyways the fact of the matter is the minority is the majority and everyone is entitled to the same opportunities...if you didnt know this is America...just checking to see if you knew that. I could see them worrying about getting jobs if it was 1985 at the latest. I see plenty of Black people working at places. I also see them not having the REQUIREMENTS NOT the OPPORTUNITY to work. EDUCATION,lets face it its the truth....you don't need to be educated to work in McDonalds but lets say at NY Times paper or something,i'm sure there are plenty blacks who work there. You say "nor do you need to worry about the police officers targeting you". This is true i dont need to..and you know why?I live in a suburb of Cleveland,and i am white.There i said it. It's true Law Enforcement may target African Americans...Can you tell me why that is? Roughly 30% of the population and almost 55% of prison population. You're statements have partial meaning but not the whole truth. They are targeted in the Inner-City where the most crime occurs where the majority of the Black population lives...at least in Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis,etc...I know the truth hurts.

Anyways back to you calling me a racist. Define racist please, here i'll do it for you, a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others. No place in my statment did i ever say Africans were inferior. I even gave 2 great role models for all of us not just blacks. Then you say this whitch shcoked me "The kids in the inner-city do commit harsher crimes, they do get pregnant, there are violence crimes and gang-violence. It isn't ridiculous though, it's expected. With no opportunity and no place to go except the inner cities its hard to fit into your expected little box" THAT IS NO EXCUSE FOR VIOLENCE WHATSOEVER.That is the biggest cop out i have ever heard of. Plenty of succesful people have made it out of there, and you call me ignorant....boy.....violence is okay because they have no where to go but the innercity like you stated......that is pure ignorance.

You claim "The families were torn up during slavery and given no opportunity, they were then torn up by direct racism enforced by the state, they were then torn up by direct racism not enforced by the state, they are now torn up by indirect silent racism" Yeah. Sure.Jim Cros Country. Aside from the Slavery you don't think anybody else had it bad? Asians,Irish,I don't see very much racist towards blacks now...its every one ganging up on the Muslims. You are blind. You say " And though, now more black kids are going to college than ever before" Yeah,its called the minorities reap the benefits, while the majority pays for them. They have more opportunities then ever yet the one's in the inner city dont care....they are blind. I hear all this talk about how the White man is bringin them down and such, yet look around....all these benefits going to waste. You claim "I went to college because my grandfather was given an opportunity, which gave my mother an opportunity, which gave me an opportunity; because he was white, because she was white, because I am white".

Cough...excuse me... Booker T.Washington,W.EB. Dubois,the Tuskegee Institute,Madam Jones,alloooonnggg time before you grandfather got to go because he was white. Face it...it's 2008 not 1960." I get to walk around and not expect any harsh treatment at all because I am white, nobody looks away, walks on the other side of the street, nobody clenches their purse a little bit tighter. I could expect to be evaluated on my merits by any job I walk into. And, my merits are quite respectable because my opportunities were respectable".I dont know what planet you live on,or if you happened to be in a coma....its 2008....get over it.

Why don't you be happy that we were one of the first countries to end slavery throughout the world. You can sulk about it how blacks are supposedly treated unfairly and not do anything about it.....while i listen to the news and hear about another Black male wanted in the hold up and death of another gas station store clerk on Denison and East 150th. And,i will also gladly watch many Americans live our daily lives free of the Jim Crow laws...and see my school get embarrased because of the image with some of our new students. i never said that there werent any white scumbags. Tons. There is a city called Rocky River that borders ours ,white collar,meanwhile my city,blue collar town, those people from River are all white,stuck up and annoying. I never said segregation was okay either.It was wrong...get over it...stand up for them 45 years ago , somethin thats done with or talk about something now.

I didnt know if you noticed but the title of this debate is the Attitude of whites and blacks today. Hey pal,thanks for the spelling lesson (arrogant jerk thing to do) but about the police,im not going to heitate t oshoot somebody with a knife coming at me. What if he stabbed you in the throat...yeah ill bet youll be wishing for your gun there.As for the name..i know he was 15 and his name was Brandon Mc sumthin but i tried googling it under deaths and that came up were the 7 homicides that happened the past 2 weeks in the inner city by black males. "All blacks are clearly ignorant drug-using hooligans ready to stab and kill police officers with children and scoff at the opportunities you, as a white person, enjoy... except of course for those who aren't." are they...wow i never knew that....that'll nbe the day when i see Condie whip out a tech 9 like you say and shoot the police and snorts a line of crack. This is the problem.people in this country are blinded sooo much by the media...they never show the good things that balck people are doing ,im starting to wonder. "That's why you run into those "attitudes", because there's still racism and it's a little below the surface but clear as day if you look for it... or suffer through it." What you don't think any blacks are racist? wow this is the ignorance im talking about...its always the white man thats the rascist.Acording to this guy.
Tatarize

Con

Touchy. If you were black you'd be confirming some stereotype right now about how blacks attack you for telling em how it is. :)

I said you didn't have to worry about not getting a job due to being black. The lack of worry was the point to the issue.

Everybody is entitled to the same opportunities? Well done to state that all "matter of fact"ly. Because nothing contradicts years of statistics like statements said bluntly and accepted as true. Statistics on upward mobility show that that blacks have less ability to move up the in the world than whites and by and large for the last 60 years (since Jim Crow state-sanctioned racism) the upward mobility has been stagnant and most people end up in the same class as their parents earning the same amount. Blacks moreover cannot turn the monetary wealth into social wealth as easily as whites. You say that everybody has the same opportunities, the statistics disagree.

This is certainly America, but the America of reality is a bit different than the America of myth. In reality, there are almost no rags to riches stories. Most people have, for the last three generations, made on par to what their parents made.

I'm glad you think that racism stopped having lingering effects in 1985. The statistics don't show any increased upward mobility for that time period. Any reason to suppose there should be one? Since the end of Jim Crow racism the upward mobility hasn't changed. It still effects blacks today, pretty much by definition.

I'm glad you see black people working. I'm glad McDonald's is hiring. I'm glad you equate jobs for black people with McDonalds. Because, nothing says upward mobility like a crap job for minimum wage, no benefits, like Micky Ds. Are you serious?

You give up presenting arguments and just decide to insinuate? You're sure blacks work at the Times. Did these black kids attend Yale because their fathers attended Yale paid for on their father's sharecropper's pay?

http://www.nytco.com...

Because pictures of the staff room are pretty much a whose who of Black America.

The truth proves my argument. So, keep it coming.

You didn't say that blacks were inferior. You said your specific/non-specific statement wasn't specific and excluded people... it wasn't blacks you hate but black ignorance. Also, they apparently stab people and white cops are right for shooting them. And sure the cops target them for crimes. Also, they are freeloaders "reaping the benefits of the majority" who pays for them. They are blind to their opportunity. -- I contend that these taken together are telling of the stealth racism still commonplace today. You can't even see it.

Poor people commit more crime. Racism keeps black poor. Being restricted to being poor (as the statistics show) isn't a cop out, it's the truth. Violence begets violence. And racism is a vicious circle. Racism keeps black poor, poor begets crime, crime leads to more racism and racism lead to more crime reporting. I'm not saying that there's no way out of it, nor am I saying that some people can't escape the ghettos. The attitude, however, is justified by the statistics.

I never suggested the white privilege only kept black people down. It props white people up more than anything else. You don't see the racism against blacks. That's the point. It's below the surface. It's those times when you hear the occasional person drop the n-bomb in standard conversation, or even not even conscious. Sure, white people'll hate anybody. That makes it justified.

My grandfather lived in 1950. The opportunities he had still trickle down to me. The opportunities I have and my family has, is trickling down to yet another generation. I've never said there weren't people making the best of it, and the idea that you can argue that Booker T. Washington existed so what was the point of the Civil Rights Movement is a joke. Those scars have not healed.

We weren't one of the first countries to end slavery. We were one of the last. Also, American slavery was an abomination to begin with and far worse than other forms. Primarily because it was so extensive and the black population in the South was so large.

Sure, you hear about a black man holding up a gas station clerk. You hear that on the news because black crime is reported six times more often than white crime. White man holds up gas station clerk isn't worth a mention (statistically speaking).

In the 45 years since segregation has ended the upward mobility (even worse for blacks) has kept people who were poor then poor now. And for all the talk of affirmative action to fix the problem statistics show it only really helped white women.

----------

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France

----------

Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.

(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home--
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay--
Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again--
The land that never has been yet--
And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

...

- Langston Hughes.
Debate Round No. 2
the_conservative

Pro

First of all i would like to remind my opponent that the title of this debate is attitudes of blacks an whites in America........You have stated sentences such as "I get to walk around and not expect any harsh treatment at all because I am white, nobody looks away, walks on the other side of the street, nobody clenches their purse a little bit tighter". Can you tell me why this is? I don't understand why you think that whites are the only one's that impose harsh treatments on different people.I walk on the same side of the streets as blacks, yet i have been reffered to as a cracker (which is fine with me because they are too stupid and they don't know where te term is coined from)of course i have also have walked on the same side of the street as a nother black man and had a decent encounter. Most of them do not because they already have that mentality that we are going to lynch them or something so they impose a sense of arrogance to themselves to do or say something.....it's almost a natural defense ,if you will. I can tell you what,people not just whites should walk holding on tighter to their belongings whilst walking down roadways in the inner city lets say becuase statistics show that black males are causing 65% of crimes in this nation. I have to pay taxes for these crimes that takes place for what u said in round 1 is expected and okay. I'd rather not pay for their jail food,transportation, and such. But of course, unlike you , we are sick of it because we can't afford this,but thats okay your grandatfher gave you your college....just remember not because he was right,but because he was rich.

I'm glad taht you have turned this debate into a he said/she said style. Basically the majority of your issues last round were poems,which remember times cahnge, and things that make no sense. You have not gotten past the point that this is 2008 and you also justify crime as an excuse. You obviously cannot understand English because you stated me very incorrectly you claim that i said " I'm glad you think that racism stopped having lingering effects in 1985" , no what i had said was 'I could see them worrying about getting jobs if it was 1985 at the latest'. I'm also very dissapointed to see that you think racism only applies to white on black. You are very arrogant and stupid. Did you know that most majority of Black crimes are Black on Black? So why dont you first say there is no excuse for violence and instead of calling whites racist look at this issue first. If they want to gain respect and develop fully in this society,they have to make it. The Irish did,the Italians did, the Scots, the Germans, the Chinese,the Japanese even after internment camps, Everyone .....but guess who hasn't. Blacks. Sure alot have and i applaud them on that. "Everybody is entitled to the same opportunities?",yes son, everyone is entitled to the same opportunities,im glad you relaize this after 25 years of your life and the fact that once again...its 2008. McDonalds and the NY TIMES was an example....im glad you can read. I'm glad you value education. I'm unhappy that you see that you had an opportunity to go to college becuase you are white. I know my grandpa wasnt a little rich board member , he worked at Ford for a living, Fought in Korea, and grew up on a farm. i'm glad that you say there is no upward mobility for blacks,and i laughed wehn you said more blacks are attending college more than ever....i laugh as you just expelled the fact of no upward mobility. How so. Affirmitive Action, College funds, but oh i forgot supposedly no upward mobility like you say for the blacks,

So while you are a living race card for blacks....All my money can go to black mothers in the inner city who can get 10 grand for having a baby,have them when they are not ready, teaches them no responibilities,manners,to not value education.

Rasiscm does not keep the black poor. Lazyness does and a bad attitude. So they can use excuses for everything ,or they can start valuing education and make money. And use it wisely. Of course you haven't seen them in public,gone to school with them, it's embarrasing. And i guarentee you that the "old-school" black people don't tolerate it either.

So while you defend unjust causes like the reason for crime,ill have a cup of coffee and i'll flick on the news and hear about the death of another 17 year old due to gang violence, ignorance,and tomorrow night i'll turn on the radio and hear about another convienent store held up and the suspects were identified as 2 black maled possibly 16-17 years old.....but to you this is justified and expected......grow up......there is no excuse.
Tatarize

Con

On the topic, there's nothing it really says. "The Attitude of White and Black people today" isn't a position. You even seem rather confused about that. It's akin to having a topic of "chairs" - it's just a thing. So rather than go by the topic I've gone by your opening argument where the following points were made:

* You're not racist.
* African Americans are not American first like you.
* Inner-city blacks are committing harsh crimes, getting pregnant, committing violence, and are involved in gangs.
* The blame for this is placed on slavery; that is false.
* The blame for this is placed on segregation; that is false.
* Segregation applied to both blacks and whites; there are two sides.
* Some white kids complain; they are lazy.
* Some black kids consider Frederick Douglass & Condoleezza Rice sellouts.
* They are ignorant.
* It is wrong to prosecute white police offers for shooting children in the ghetto.

Frankly, I'm not sure what your argument is beyond a racist diatribe. You titled the debate "attitudes of white and black people" but only called some white people lazy and complainers. Whereas most of your post was spent stating factually false statements about blacks. The upward mobility is such that where blacks were before the end of segregation is where a number of them still are. Those scars aren't gone. Further, racism hasn't gone anywhere it's just become a bit quieter. The reason African Americans aren't just Americans is because they aren't white. White is considered the norm and how they differ from the norm gets the added adjective. Asian American, Italian American, Native American, are deviations from the general white expected norm. It's not some conscious choice people make it's just another bit of racism stuck in terminology.

"i have been reffered to as a cracker (which is fine with me because they are too stupid and they don't know where te term is coined from)" - It comes from the word corn cracker, which was a staple food from by poor southern blacks. Some argue that it comes from cracks of whips by slave drivers, but that's almost certainly false. I'm glad that you can resolve yourself to believe people are stupid and not be affected by such terms. Is the reverse true? Could you call them "niggers" without effect? Could they shrug it off just as easily? Or is this simply apples and oranges?

Poor urban youth commits a larger amount of crime. That isn't because the color of their skin but rather because poor urban youth commit a larger amount of crime. If you go to another country and their poor urban youth is a different ethnicity you'll run into crime coming out of those demographics. As mentioned in the comments there was a time when the Irish were largely the poor urban youths, and if there were good statistics probably did commit more crime.

My grandfather wasn't rich. Just given opportunities.

* "I'd rather not pay for their jail food,transportation, and such."

* "I'm also very dissapointed to see that you think racism only applies to white on black. You are very arrogant and stupid."

* "McDonalds and the NY TIMES was an example....im glad you can read." - McDonalds isn't much of an opportunity and NY Times wasn't anything more than an insinuation on your part.

* "All my money can go to black mothers in the inner city who can get 10 grand for having a baby,have them when they are not ready, teaches them no responibilities,manners,to not value education."

* "Rasiscm does not keep the black poor. Lazyness does and a bad attitude."

I think my case is pretty well proven that you are racist. I'm rather perplexed what you think this debate was suppose to accomplish other than give yourself a soapbox to rail against blacks.

Poor people commit crimes, racism keeps you poor, racism is seen to be justified. Black people commit crimes so don't trust them and deny them opportunities, and look at that black people commit crimes. Racism is institutionalized and self-fulfilling. Keeping blacks down, keeps them down, people who are down act as if they are down, this is used to justify keeping blacks down. There's no upward mobility, so everybody forced into the slums in back when the government was involved in such actions is pretty well still in the slums. With fewer educational options (as education more than anything is upward mobility) nobody goes anywhere.

As for the comments suggesting that if I lived in a minority neighborhood I'd hate blacks too, you're wrong. I live in the poorest part of this city. And work in a school district pretty well devoid of white people.

1) Racism from white people typically involves being liked more because you are white. If you look for it, it's pretty damned common.
2) Affirmative action primarily helped white women.
3) I can pronounce their names.
4) Gangster rap music is produced for white suburban youths, comprising 75% of the listener base. Deeps asks, How do I "respect someone who listens to music that promotes gun violence, taking advantage of women,..." - I don't.

What the hell was the point of this debate again? Put your racism on display or something?
Debate Round No. 3
39 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
wow i meant taterize, ha sorry Filter
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
Thankyou, Filter must have been on drugs during this debate
Posted by filter 9 years ago
filter
Excellent debate both of you...

Myself being a young black male, liked to see both sides of the story. I had to vote for the conservative because he is correct on most points except like he stated below that the segregation thing was stupid. Taterize, you can't just go off calling people racist when you don't know the actual meaning. Conervative is right,i have to deal with my own people acting like this everyday. In my school if you get good grades then you are picked on and sometimes beatin up. About 75% of my calssmates are in gangs and commit crimes and it needs to stop. There is no excuse to act this way. I would like to tell them this but....majority rules. Conservative is right and nobody at my school values education....which is the key to everything. Now quit attacking him because he is right in most of his things stated and i have to live with this everyday and this behavior has to stop.
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
i did many times throughout the debate Harlan.

Mindjob yes i know the segregation things was dumb but i never said it hurts us more....anyways...i don't know where the rest of you live but around here its just really bad.....
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
It seems to me, the conservative, that since you now indicate that you are only against the attitudes of some people that live in certain areas or "ghetto people ", you should have stated your subject like that, instead of basing your title of the sebate on race. You should have sadi something to the effect of the specific culture you are talking about.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Anyone who lives in any urban environment or metropolis, like I have, has lived with what you are talking about. I can see where you would get some of your prejudices. You were right when you said that most people have at least a little of that in them when they have lived with it. But the difference between you and the rest of everyone who isn't a racist is that we recognize the prejudice is wrong and we work against the pre-conceived notions in the back of our minds. You seem to embrace them and start using larger brushes than you should to paint your picture. Regardless of whatever you say about being a racist, the impression we get from the rest of your writings says differently.

Your total lack of knowledge and understanding with respect to history and sociology doesn't help either. You really lose a lot of credibility when you say stupid stuff like segregation hurt whites just as much as blacks. That's why tartarize calls you a racist and I drop my "wise answers" on you. Learn from the knowledge we are giving you and make yourself a better person.
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
"You just hate how black people act and think they should act white and utilize the same opportunities you've had, stop killing people, and get less ignorant. I'm clearly misreading what you're saying.

You're not racist. You just hate black people. You don't hate all black people, just the ones who act black. You're not racist. You also hate white people, the ones who act black." No the one's who act ghetto

oh god, I don't hate how black people act,i hate how ghetto black people act. Prejudiced not racsit ,idiot. I DON'T HATE black people. I like most black people...and i just hate only the way ghetto people ACT ,NOT because of the color of their skin you idiot. You are ridiculous. on top of that you haven't been around it to see why i have these feelings because you don't live in areas where this kind of behavior takes place day and day out.
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
wow taterize....,like i said ,you twist around words so much. You obviously need glasses or something because i said this "I am not out to discredit the black people of america. i'm out to discredit the attitudes of certain individuals of a race." You are obviously retarded bicause you quoted me so wrong with what you said -- "i'm out to discredit the attitudes of certain individuals of a race."

A race? Any race in particular? I wonder if I can piece this together.

Yeah idiot the attitudes of ghetto black people. That doesn't mean every single black person in the world. i said this time and time again and you obviously can't comprehend what the words every, some, and the word racism are.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
-- "i'm out to discredit the attitudes of certain individuals of a race."

A race? Any race in particular? I wonder if I can piece this together. Which race would you want to "discredit that attitudes of"?

-- "i hate white peopel who act ghetto and think they are black."

You hate people who act as though they are black. Hm. So you want to discredit the attitude of some "mystery" race. And you hate people who adopt the attitude of black people? Wait, I think, I've deduced something here...

-- "So does that make me a racist against my own race now?"

No. It makes you still racist against blacks. You apparently hate the "attitudes" of black people... even on white people. Or so I gather from your racist rant.

I'm not trying to twist your words around, but you do see how you clearly give these impressions right? You see how I could perhaps come to the conclusions I've come to? When you say stupid things like you could bounce back from slavery in a generation, or that even without educational opportunities blacks could still work at McDonald's so upward mobility stats are clearly hooey, it makes me lose a lot of respect for you.

Your odd constant rant where you doth protest too much about how you're not really racist. You just hate how black people act and think they should act white and utilize the same opportunities you've had, stop killing people, and get less ignorant. I'm clearly misreading what you're saying.

You're not racist. You just hate black people. You don't hate all black people, just the ones who act black. You're not racist. You also hate white people, the ones who act black.

Stop digging this hole.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
I didn't think blacks made up the majority of the military, till you said "Yeah i know that blacks make up just over the maority of the military". Even though you don't take the time to proofread anything you write, I still understood that to mean you thought they made up the majority. And since, at 16 and somehow a member of the military you are an expert on the subject, I wasn't going to question you. If you aren't even going to be consistent in your own comments, you can bet that I'm going to leave another "wise answer" for you since it seems you need a little more wisdom dropped on you.

Here's the thing with black slavery: it was the first time it became racially based. Before then, slavery was seen as more of a business, with emotions and bigotry left out of it. The Romans on up through the Spanish bought, sold and used all kinds of people because they were able to use their military to overpower them. The British turned it into a white-superiority based system after they had wiped out the Native Americans and needed other people to become their slaves. It's that legacy we're left with here.

If I'm no one to disqualify people from being role models, who are you to say that they are? If you can't take me writing your heroes off an incompetent at best, or despotic at worst, could you possibly find a way that doesn't show your age so much? I mean, seriously...piehole? That's really lame.
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Reasons for voting decision: I "hatae ignorance" too. Con got a bit aggressive, hence conduct. One of the few errors he committed was not caught by his opponent (segragation legaly prohibited whites from drinking from black fountains, it was the whole justification for it in the Supreme Court that it was ecuanimous on paper). The mistake is besides the point, though, because the letter of the law was not as important as the universally recognized aim.
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