The Instigator
danimarton50
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Locke33
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

The Beatles are still the best musically in the world.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Locke33
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2013 Category: Arts
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,103 times Debate No: 29140
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (4)

 

danimarton50

Pro

I would like to challenge anyone who thinks otherwise.
Locke33

Con

1st off good luck to my opponent

The Beatles are still the best musically in the worlds that is not the clearest so I'm going to debate weather or not they are the most influential band in the world or the most talented which I believe neither.

1st the Beatles had sort of a Justin Bieber effect on the sixties some of there music was and is pretty good but they were fondled over by girls which boosted them to the stardom that have.

Musically most of there stuff was eight chords played like pop music.

If you asked 1000 musicians who there top 10 guitarists, bassists, songwriters, and drummers were I guarantee you the only top ten they might sometimes occupy is songwriter because how catchy there lyrics were but far from the best.

To find the best influence on music and culture how bout the king of rock n roll Elvis, or the king of pop Micheal Jackson or the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, not only are these as if not more influential every one is better musicianly, what about Hendrix also, the clash and the sex pistols they led rebellions not 14 year old girls back in the 60s.

This is all I can say for now until you make the argument more specific and then I can get into more detail.

Rock n Roll
Debate Round No. 1
danimarton50

Pro

Thank you kind Sir

I would like to react first to your comment that "Musically most of there stuff was eight chords played like pop music."
People try to convince me all the time that the music of the Beatles is simple which is simply not true. They were ground-breaking pioneers almost from the beginning, being the first group ever to employ feedback in 1964′s "I Feel Fine." One of their first hits, "A Hard Day"s Night," features an opening chord so revolutionary that people are still trying to figure out.
While there are countless contemporary composers capable of music vastly more sophisticated in form and technique, few if any are capable of displaying feeling and fantasy so direct, spontaneous, and original. Talent doesn't necessary mean technical bravado. By the way Paul McCartney is the most revolutionary bass player ever, he was the first to use the bass to create actual melodies that accomplish the song itself, which influenced every bass player living today.

The Beatles recorded four of the Top 10 Greatest Albums of All Time, according to Rolling Stone magazine, and three of the Top Five. Their ability to cross over from media and teen idols to musical innovators is one-of-a-kind, their place in popular culture is unrivaled. They were the first to perform, write their own songs, as a result, they helped usher the singer-songwriter movement that popularized the late 1960s. They literally forced other bands to write their own music.

They created pop music. They didn"t embellish it or make it better " they created it. It started heavy with Rubber Soul and Revolver and songs like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Penny Lane", "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" were the fruition and evolution of a new style of music. They were the trigger of a revolution that became pop culture.

They created the album concept. Pink Floyd would not even exist if it wasn't for that album how could you even bring them up as bigger influence on music?? Sgt. Pepper was the first gatefold cover LP and the first time an album utilized all of the non-hits as part of the story. Everyone else had filler " the Beatles had albums.

Sex pistols were a manufactured group. They were put together by managers. It was a product. Punk was anticipated by pop culture and sold to the masses. On the other hand, no hero in rock or pop culture has ever replaced John Lennon. He pushed the press and the government in directions like never before.

Their time shaped The Beatles and they shaped their time. By bringing issues to the people's awareness they changed the meaning of celebrity forever. I better stop now to give you a chance to reply.
Locke33

Con

Locke33 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
danimarton50

Pro

danimarton50 forfeited this round.
Locke33

Con

1st off the sex pistols are not fake they did something the Beatles never did endless touring sleeping on flours with actual emotion in there music. Starting a revolution and a genre that has had effects on elections and people and changes in the world they started punk. But that took emotion.

One thing I think is very much lacking from the Beatles music is emotion. They wrote songs trying to write a hit not for the purpose of the music.

There fan base was also as I shood have mentioned earlier was heightened because of the use of implanted girls in the 60s to make people thing they were big and that made tons of people jump on the band wagon. Not that they were the only band to have this with tv shows and stuff but this helped a lot.

And you talk of them as musical geniuses,they did have a couple breakthroughs in the studio but that was because of the work of George Martin a studio genius that made them what they are they had a great producer that made them big, other bands right songs that make them big and popular and then get a great producer to help them.

He was the goodness LOL behind there overdubbing, reverse tracks and special sound effects.

Here are some things the producer (not part of the band) did for the Beatles, "Not only did he do most of the orchestral arrangements on the Beatles' records, he also wrote the orchestral score for A Hard Days Night and Yellow Submarine, and used his musical expertise and technological savvy to guide the Beatles raw talent into the music giants they would become.
George Martin was in his early 30s and already an accomplished producer and musician by the time he met the Beatles. He had at least two instruments under his belt""the piano and oboe""and had studied composition, conducting, orchestration and music theory at the Guidhall School of Music. He joined Parlophone Records as a music assistant in 1950 and spent the next six years learning the ins and outs of the recording process, music industry and its ever evolving technological advances. When Martin's boss retired in 1955, he took over for him, becoming the youngest manager of an EMI label at the age of 29.
Martin's previous experience layering musical effects and creating backward tapes gave the Beatles music its depth, and encouraged them to experiment more. Martin's assistance was especially important in creating the mood and sound the Beatles wanted for Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band. Martin's finely tuned touched was especially apparent in two of John's best songs, "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "A Day in the Life." Martin combined the two versions John had created of Strawberry Fields into the version we know today. He is also responsible for the amazing orchestral windup in "A Day In The Life."[1] this I got from beatlesnumbernine.com and these are just a few of the ways he basically made the Beatles

Also they did not create pop music all pop means is popular music hence micheal Jackson being the king of pop. But there were many hugely popular groups and artists before the Beatles ala Les Paul, Roy Orbison, Frank Sinatra ect...

And I was referring to the affect pink Floyd had on culture like in the 70s they led the stoner revolution and the ways of the seventies.

And my last point they did not care about there music or the fans enough to tour and stick it out like so many other great bands they becomes famous in the u.s in about 1964 and by the time of their last show it was 1966 at Shea stadium, the show didn't go over very well either selling only about 25,000 of about 40 thousand it was a financial loss for the promoter.[2]

They are good musicians but not the best musicians.

Sources

[1] http://beatlesnumber9.com...

[2] http://www.beatlesbible.com...
Debate Round No. 3
danimarton50

Pro

The Sex Pistols did not invent, created, started punk. The NY Dolls, The Stooges, Ramones did. Get your facts straight.

The Beatles did more touring in their early days than other bands do in 20 years. They had their fair share of hardships too, especially in Hamburg. They were paid "2.50 each a day, seven days a week, playing from 8:30-9:30, 10 until 11, 11:30-12:30, and finishing the evening playing from one until two o'clock in the morning. " We had to play for hours and hours on end. We lived backstage in the Bambi Kino, next to the toilets, and you could always smell them. The room had been an old storeroom, and there were just concrete walls and nothing else. No heat, no wallpaper, not a lick of paint; and two sets of bunk beds, with not very much covers"Union Jack flags"we were frozen".

I think that songs like, Eleanor Rigby, Day in the Life, Let it Be, In My Life, Strawberry Fields Forever, Across the Universe, Here Comes the Sun, Something prove how passionate and soulful their music is. If there is anything lacking in their music it sure is not passion. Even their earlier stuff like Twist and Shout is full off intensity and passion.

George Martin helped the boys to shape the sound they intended to achieve. The four boys, John and Paul in particular, contributed to the sound you hear on revolutionary songs like Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day in the Life, the whole Sgt. Pepper album for that matter, just as much as George Martin did. He was an important piece in the puzzle but to suggest that he is the sole reason for their success is just ridiculous. I don't see other bands produced by Martin making history and creating number one hits all over the world.

The Beatles were fed up with constant touring and the screaming. They grew up, matured and in their second stage of their career they focused their energy on creating albums that nobody has ever created before. They turned pop music into an art form. I don't think there is a single sane person (other than you) who would hold that against them.
The Beatles saved music from remaining in the coma that was rockabilly, and helped us to not revert back to classical.
The Beatles are the heart and soul of popular music. Before The Beatles came around, popular music was meant mostly to dance to. It also seemed like every song of the previous decade had the exact same 12-bar blues melody. The Beatles experimented with music so much that they cultivated what we still attempt to do in music to this day, yet it seems like no one else seems to be really doing as well: the perfect song. It"s common to have an artist make two good songs then make 12 bad ones then hack together a horrible album. The Beatles made every track on every album great. That"s why they"re still so highly regarded today. Their songs are timeless.
Locke33

Con

New York dolls and the stooges were the only bands substantially before the sex pistols the others came out during the years 74-75 so the same time, ramones and sexpistols are equally as important in Europe and America respectively starting the revolution punk rock.

Black sabbath revoulutionized, started, made metal what it is, does that mean they were the 1st to play music that sounded that way, no, same with the sexpistols and ramones(yes I should have listed them earlier).

I wouldn't consider that touring playing the same place every day three times a day good for them they were poor and played music all the time. So many other people in the world are poor and jam all the time in the same place that's not touring I guarantee every band that practices all the time in there house would love to do it three times a day in some place and get paid that's a bonus I'm not saying it wasn't hard and tough but thousands of musicians would love to be doing that.

I'm glad you think so many of their songs are full of passion I think opposite even the early stuff like twist and shout. What I'm saying is our opinions should not matter in this debate at all this debate is where we back up our opinions.

I never said George Martin was the sole reason for Beatles success he was the glue and some of those things that you say the Beatles did we're revolutionary were martins brain child, which just lessons the greatness of the Beatles., yes they are great, not the best.

I don't think growing up would cause me to leave music, it certainly did not do that to the who, the Rolling Stones, van halen, Ozzy Osborne, black sabbath , rhcp, Metallica, the cure, u2, kiss ac/dc, Aerosmith, zz top, Crosby stills and Nash, rush, fleet wood Mac, the drifters, most of these thanks to seatleweakly.com 15 longest running bands. They didn't grow up and and mature and get sick of the screaming to focus meerly on albums, that's not what being aband is about.

I do recall you saying that the Beatles created pop music in your 1 st round not embellished it or made it btter you say but in your last round you say they merely turned pop into an art form seems like you OPINIONS are conflicting.
Debate Round No. 4
danimarton50

Pro

danimarton50 forfeited this round.
Locke33

Con

Since my opponent did not rebut my last points one most either assume he agreed or conceded I will post no other argument since I already had the last word.

Thank you

And vote Con
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by RyuuKyuzo 4 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
danimarton50Locke33Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
danimarton50Locke33Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: No vote. Pro's forfeiture balances against the spam messaging by Con.
Vote Placed by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
danimarton50Locke33Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: pro forfeited one more round than con.
Vote Placed by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
danimarton50Locke33Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: danimarton50 made an ad hominem. Pro conceded several of Con's arguments and since they were tied until then, that gives the win to Con. Con also used more reliable sources.