The Instigator
BuffaloNY340
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Endy
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

The Beatles made music what it is today

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Endy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/17/2015 Category: Music
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 733 times Debate No: 70208
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

BuffaloNY340

Pro

First round acceptance only. I will be arguing why The Beatles changed music forever and why without them, everything would be different. This debate shouldn't be taken too seriously but should be logical in reasons for being against. May the best man win.
Endy

Con

I accept, and will be arguing why the Beatles did not change music forever or make everything different, in a logical, top-down fashion. Do your worst!
Debate Round No. 1
BuffaloNY340

Pro

My argument is this: The Beatles were the most innovative band of the 1960's, they changed music and pop culture almost overnight. What is not in question is whether or not someone would have done it later. The question is what did The Beatles do? For starters, The Beatles were the first group to ever film and release their own music videos. Due to the overwhelming nature of "Beatlemania", the group decided to get their music out by way of music videos. Something which no group had done at that point. Not only did they make one, they made many. Including "Hello, Goodbye", "Rain", "Paperback Writer", "Penny Lane", "Strawberry Fields", the list goes on. Another point to my argument is that no group until The Beatles had used technology in such an innovative matter. Until The Beatles, playing recordings/samples backward in a song was completely unheard of. I'm not talking about playing it backward on your own with a vinyl record. They actually used backwards playback in "Rain" and "Paperback Writer". No band has ever achieved the amount of fame that The Beatles did before or after their career ended. "Beatlemania" is a stand alone wave of popularity that has yet to be matched to this day and we live in 2015. How did this change music? Music videos took off after the creation which produced such things as MTV (before it became a reality TV station), TRL, and VH1. The creative use of technology in the music studio started a whole wave that we know as "psychedelic" music. How did "Beatlemania" change music? It turned music from just easy listening to a 24/7 phenomena that it has become today. The Beatles were the first group to reach such popularity that instead of a few fans following an artist around, it became hordes of people, interviewers, paparazzi. People took an interest in not just the music anymore, but the artists themselves. Who they are, what they like, what they don't like, where they come from, the creative process. Until The Beatles arrived this was pretty much unheard of. Not to mention, stadium concerts? Until The Beatles arrived, nobody had ever player or sold out an entire stadium. I speak of Shea Stadium in NY. In their time 50,000 fans was astronomical. Had that not have taken place, concerts at MSG might not be a possibility. Once again, I would like to state that the argument of whether someone would have done it after or not is not pertinent to this debate. Everybody wanted to be the Beatles in the 60's. It was almost comical to see other groups try to imitate them so close that it was almost reaching plagiarism. To this day artists get inspiration from all the Beatles have done. Their music has become timeless in a group that includes the names of Beethoven, Elvis Presely, and Bach. So, I now leave my opponent with his turn in the debate. I look forward to your rebuttal. Thank you.
Endy

Con

The statement "the Beatles made music what it is today" is patently false in that they did not single-handedly make music what it is today. There were an unfathomable amount of other artists before and during the time of the Beatles (http://www.thepeoplehistory.com...), and every single recorded song in history was a contribution and an influence on music today. It would be fair to say that the Beatles had a larger influence on today's music than some, but it is in no way true that the Beatles made music what it is today. For that reason, I deny the the central argument made by my opponent.

Rebuttals to my opponent's arguments in a step-wise manner:

1. "My argument is this: The Beatles were the most innovative band of the 1960's, they changed music and pop culture almost overnight."

Response: They arguably were the most innovative, but it is an indisputable fact that they weren't the only band of the 1960's. For example, Gerry and the Pacemakers (http://en.wikipedia.org...) and Rory Storm and the Hurricanes (http://en.wikipedia.org...) were bands that originated in Liverpool, just like the Beatles (and an unrelated fun fact: Ringo actually spent some time playing with the latter, and all three bands were managed by Brian Epstein). The three bands spent many years in fierce competition and it is easy to appreciate how they were not only an enormous influence on each other, but each left its own mark on music forever. The Rolling Stones probably also deserve a place in this argument, but I don't even want to go there for fear that it will turn into a 'who was better' thing, which isn't related to the debate.

2. I won't quote it for fear of exceeding the allotted word limit, but you mentioned much of the Beatles' discography as well as "Beatlemania" a number of times.

Response: While this is great, and a tribute to the successes of the Beatles, it doesn't do the argument any justice. Below are links to the discographies of a few other influential musicians before or during the time of the Beatles (of which there are thousands).
http://www.discogs.com...
http://www.discogs.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

3. "Another point to my argument is that no group until The Beatles had used technology in such an innovative matter."

Response: Of course other groups had! A few examples are Stockhausen/Varese's Tape Echo (50's), the DeForest's Vacuum Tube (1907), and Pfleumer's Magnetic Tape (1928). I mean, George Beauchamp invented the electric guitar in the 20's. The microphone was invented by Edison and Berliner in 1860 (debatable of course, there is a lot of guff about Edison having stolen this invention from David Hughes, as there is with anything Edison patented...). I would make the case that these are all more important technology innovations in music than the Beatles' use of backmasking.

To quote you: "Until The Beatles, playing recordings/samples backward in a song was completely unheard of." The more important point I want to make here, however, is that this is simply not a tenable position. The Beatles didn't invent backmasking! (http://en.wikipedia.org...) "Backmasking was popularised by the Beatles, [...] In 1878, Edison noted that, when played backwards, 'the song is still melodious in many cases, and some of the strains are sweet and novel, but altogether different from the song reproduced in the right way'". As they did not invent it, you should not credit them for doing so- they used it, but so did other musicians and groups at the time, as well as before and after.
(http://www.musicradar.com...)

4. "No band has ever achieved the amount of fame that The Beatles did before or after their career ended.", "How did "Beatlemania" change music? It turned music from just easy listening to a 24/7 phenomena that it has become today."

Response: Regardless of how much fame they achieved, other groups have and are achieving fame. Beatlemania did not single-handedly change music, and it's not a tenable position to say that it did. Please refer to my first few paragraphs for more information on this.

6. "Their music has become timeless in a group that includes the names of Beethoven, Elvis Presely, and Bach."

Response: You affirm my argument with the statement that many other groups have had influence on music.

To sum it all up, you know a lot of Beatles facts and there ARE a lot of Beatles facts because they did a lot of impressive things. Your entire argument so far has been a statement of the large impact and success that the Beatles saw. This, however, is not conducive to them single-handedly changing music forever. There were many, many variables, and it is no valid to say that the Beatles were the only ones with any influence on today's music.

With this, I thank my opponent for his arguments and look forward to his responses, hopeful that they can convince me that other artists at or before the time of the Beatles did not have any influence on today's music. Thanks!
Debate Round No. 2
BuffaloNY340

Pro

BuffaloNY340 forfeited this round.
Endy

Con

On the grounds that my arguments went unanswered I think it would be fair to suggest that the debate has ended, and I will propose no further arguments at this time. On the off-chance that my opponent wishes to change their mind and debate this with me, however, I look forward to his/her responses to my previous arguments.

Thanks in advance to voters in this debate, for their time- I'd hate to see this one go to a draw!
Debate Round No. 3
BuffaloNY340

Pro

BuffaloNY340 forfeited this round.
Endy

Con

I guess that's it! Thank you voters for your time, and Pro for your initial argument.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
BuffaloNY340EndyTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture