The Instigator
Elijahhill97
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
S.Weekes
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Bible Does Not Make Being Gay wrong

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/9/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,270 times Debate No: 54331
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (25)
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Elijahhill97

Pro

First round is acceptance I hope to debate a Catholic or someone against Gays. Thank you to whoever accepts this debate.
S.Weekes

Con

I gladly accept your debate. I would further like to point out that due to my strong personal convictions, I respect all people regardless of their choices, I don't want to forcibly change peoples mind nor make them feel guilty about their choices. I'm not here to judge I am simply engaging in a debate. Once again I would like to stress, exactly how I have done before, I am debating for the heck of it and tend to debate random topics. My stance in the debate may not always represent my real stance. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss my beliefs.
Debate Round No. 1
Elijahhill97

Pro

Now the most common reason and explanation Catholics use for why being Gay isn't okay is the famous verse of Leviticus which states, Lev. 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV, NKJV)

But if Catholics follow this through and through why are other "abominations" allow to slide. Now most "Catholics" do not do much research about what is an abomination besides that quote about gays. I am going to give you other information on Abominations that the Bible says.

"Unclean things (Lev. 7:21). Leviticus 11:7 And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17). The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5). Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5). Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17). Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13). Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13). Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15). The general meaning of the word "abomination" or abominable" in the Bible is: Something detestable, unlawful or repulsive."

It is quite interesting I go to a Catholic school and I had hot dogs on thursday the same day we had mass. Which clearly states in lev. 7:21 is an abomination but yet it was allowed interesting. Do you have a girlfriend or wife or have you ever seen a female wear any of a males clothing because I know I have which is also clearly stated as an abomination.

Would you like me to continue? Should I list more problems in the bible? How can Catholics follow one verse so strongly but continue to neglect so many other verses? You cannot say one thing is wrong and let other things the bible says is wrong let slide. I am sorry but the bible cannot be used against gays. I will state other problems in the bible in the next round.

I would like to take this time to thank my opponent and anyone taking the time to read this debate. Thank you.

http://richardwaynegarganta.com...
http://infidels.org...
http://www.biblegateway.com...
http://www.biblegateway.com...
http://www.openbible.info...
http://carm.org...
S.Weekes

Con

Christians don't neglect to follow certain verses, they simply prioritise them in a way which is easier to follow. It's also against Christianity to force someone to do or change something. In his entire life Jesus never forced anyone to do or change anything and a true Christian follows the same principle.

Back on topic now: Homosexuality is the act of intercourse between people of the same sex. When the Bible speaks of homosexuality, its emphasis is on behaviour, not condition. God loves sinners, but condemns sin. And the Bible's verdict on homosexual behaviour, as with all sexual immorality, is that it is sinful.

"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." Leviticus 18:22(NLT)

Does the bible not constantly place homosexuality amongst else sinful?

But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarrelling, deception, malicious behaviour, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (NLT) Romans 1:18-32

Does it not repeatedly put homosexuality amongst all of the aforementioned wrong doings?
Debate Round No. 2
Elijahhill97

Pro

Well if what I posted as abominations according to the bible ex. "Unclean things (Lev. 7:21). Leviticus 11:7 And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." How is it considered "prioritise" when they clearly neglect, ignore, do not obey, fail to follow, and any other word you can think of that means they did follow or listen to that particular verse. Would you like to talk about more verses Catholics neglect? Let me list a few.

"EX 21:17, LE 20:9, DT 21:18-21 A child who curses his parent(s) is to be put to death. A stubborn and/or rebellious child is to be put to death." I know for a fact I have told a priest I have disrespected my parents before and I have cursed to my parents face before yet I am still living today.

"LE 19:19 A cloth garment made of two kinds of material must not be worn." What is quite interesting is that priests contradict this statement in the Bible every time they hold mass. "Five different materials were used to create the priestly garments:

gold
techelet, sky-blue wool
dark-red wool
crimson wool
twisted linen"

Those are a few examples of the neglections of other verses of the Bible. Let us also consider that many Catholics say you cannot take the Bible 100% literal and 100% figurative. Why are some verses allowed to slide yet being gay is still wrong only from what the bible says? back on subject.

Are you trying to argue Gays do not acknowledge God? That he has abandoned them? Maybe you should read http://gaycatholic.info... and look around God says he loves everyone. Except those who follow then turn their back on God

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

So if God created us all then why are there different sexual orientations? Well quite simple God allowed there to be. If he thought gays were an abomination he would not allow there to be the possibility.

"Here is another argument for your "christian" viewpoint argument. Do Christians need to obey the Old Testament Law? No. However, the Old Testament Law does provide guidelines for living the Christian life. The "moral" laws given to the Israelites describe practical ways to love God and others.
(Read more: http://www.compellingtruth.org...)" Many scholars argue that Christians are not held to the Old Testament. Also with the four gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark, and John not once is Homosexuality mentioned by Jesus. Not. Once. I find that quite compelling if being Gay was such an abomination why did Jesus not mention it once? Here is a video by a Reverend who explains homosexuality and the Bible shown to me by a friend. https://www.youtube.com...

Here is Matthew Vines who is Gay and Christian and makes a very interesting argument here is a link to a website. http://www.christianpost.com...

Also if Gays are such an abomination why is the Pope even considering them? "Pope Francis says the issue of gay marriage should be studied and not dismissed out-of-hand, a senior Roman Catholic cardinal has revealed."http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

"Does it not repeatedly put homosexuality amongst all of the aforementioned wrong doings?"
Actually it does not in all honesty here is a fantastic argument and questions you should think about.
"seven passages in the Bible that refer directly to homosexual behavior, and none of them are associated with Jesus. Compare that to the more than 250 verses on the proper use of wealth or more than 300 on our responsibility to care for the poor and work for justice, and you appreciate quickly that homosexuality was not exactly a major theme of the Bible."

"Do the passages refer to anything like the phenomena of life-long, monogamous or mutually consensual same-gendered relationships that we know of today? (It's worth noting that the word "homosexual" was not present in the ancient world but was instead invented in the 19th century.) The second issue we've only alluded to: Whether or not the passages refer to the phenomenon we are describing today, are we bound to ethical determinations made by persons living in vastly different cultures and times and whose understanding of the world and of God's activity was shaped and limited by their own cultural viewpoints."

There is considerable debate on at least two questions about these passages. 1) Do they refer to consensual homosexual practice, to cultic prostitution or to male pederasty (where an adult male has sex with a younger boy, either as a coming of age ritual or on a commercial basis)? 2) Are the New Testament authors pointing to specific behavior they have witnessed, or are they using a common "catalogue of complaints" against Gentiles (as there are similar complaints in other first-century Jewish writings about Gentiles)?

Of these verses, the Romans passage is often cited as a "lynch pin" text because the Apostle Paul seems to make his argument on the basis of the natural order ("natural" vs. "unnatural" passions). But at another place Paul uses nature to justify his position on the proper length of men's and women's hair and the need for women to wear head coverings (1 Corinthians 11:2-16). As it turns out, arguing from nature was a common rhetorical device in Paul's day, employed by many contemporaries of the Apostle, and was similar to saying today, "The conventional wisdom is..."

"So back to Romans . . what do the verses tell us will happen when people, having known God, turn their backs on Him? God will abandon them to themselves and their lives will get worse. Repeat, worse. This is that one really bad sin we have all heard about since childhood "blaspheming the Holy Spirit": having known He exists and now denying that He does. THAT is the thing spoken of in Romans. THAT is what the recipients of the Letter to the Romans had done- they turned from God. They weren't gay; they were people who turned back to their old ways of idolatry, part of which was same sex behavior in their temple rites an in prostitution in their worship experiences." http://canyonwalkerconnections.com...

Just some things to think about while making your decision on whether the bible is enough to say being gay is wrong.

My main argument here is if Catholics do not follow all of the "rules" and verses in the Bible then why is the one about gays held with such high importance. How can that be what everyone relies on? Leviticus also said many other things that were completely ridiculous. just look some up. Leviticus also made statements that contradicted genesis? which one is of more importance Genesis or Leviticus? Which one do followers of God follow more?

https://www.youtube.com...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
http://www.compellingtruth.org...
http://www.apa.org...#
http://gaycatholic.info...
https://www.templeinstitute.org...
http://infidels.org...
http://canyonwalkerconnections.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
S.Weekes

Con

Well then your argument is irrelevant because we are talking about the bible and it's references to homosexuality not how different people interpret and follow the bible.

Also: "Here is another argument for your "Christian" viewpoint argument. Do Christians need to obey the Old Testament Law?"

No, because Christianity is defined as: A religion that follows Jesus Christ's teachings: the religion based on the life, teachings, and example of Jesus Christ.

Can you find the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament? No.

Why is that? Because he wasn't born before then. His teachings come in the New Testament which documents life during and after Jesus.

Anyway back to the argument:

The bible clearly states:

"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." Leviticus 20:13(NLT)

Which clearly shows that the bible does perceive homosexuality as wrong.

Also please stop citing sources for the bible. You just need the verse not bible gateway.
Debate Round No. 3
Elijahhill97

Pro

So you just supported the fact that Christianity does not have to follow the Old Testament. Therefore Leviticus stating "A man laying with another man is a detestable act" is completely irrelevant to them. Because not once does Jesus mention Gays as an abomination. If they were an abomination in the eyes of God Jesus would have said something about them, But he doesn't not once. Can you explain that to me?

Here is something for you to look at and think about.

For whoever keeps the whole Law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)
So you choose to keep and follow that being Gay is an abomination, but you break other verses in the Testament according to James 2:10 that is just as bad as breaking all of the laws.

"There is, however, a big problem with quoting Leviticus. The problem is that Christians are no longer under the Law. We do not live our Christian life by following the Old Testament Law. The Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear. It is not something fabricated to win an argument, or made up in the twentieth century, or manufactured to get around something somebody doesn't like. It is clearly stated in the Greek scriptures.

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." (Galatians 3:10)"
I know for a fact the Church does not follow everything in the Old testament today as I have pointed out a few times in my other arguments. So according to Galatians 3:10 we all must be cursed! quite silly I must say.

"According to Paul"s statement below, things have changed.
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. (Galatians 3:13)"
It was Jesus" death on the cross that rescued us from the curse of the Law. If we insist on following the Law and imposing the Law on others, we negate the cross of Christ, and repudiate Christ"s death on the cross."
Interesting how yet another quote from the Bible states the old law as a curse to us.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Galatians 5:1)"
"If you insist that other people observe the Law, then you are burdening people "again by a yoke of slavery," which makes you a slave master. When people resist your attempt to place them under the Law, they are acting in accordance with the urging of Paul, "Do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. (Galatians 5:18)."
"You Cannot Observe the Law and Walk in the Spirit Simultaneously"
A mature Christian cannot be led by the Spirit and follow the Law simultaneously. This is an example of "serving two masters," which Christ said was impossible. In the Greek scriptures Paul urges us to walk in the Spirit, to be filled with the Spirit, to keep in step with the Spirit, and warn us against the bondage to the Law. We can"t live life in the Spirit if the Law has us in chains."

Can you explain these Bible quotes that tell us that the old law is a curse? Ones which contradict following leviticus? Ones who say that Jesus our Lord and Savior has freed from the curse of the old law?

Also the term Homoexuality was not put into the Bible until 1946. Are they talking a man just having sex with a man as many idol worshipers did back then or were they talking about long loving relationships between a man and another man?

"Homosexuality is briefly mentioned in only six or seven of the Bible"s 31,173 verses." "The fact that homosexuality is so rarely mentioned in the Bible should be an indication to us of the lack of importance ascribed it by the authors of the Bible."

"While the Bible is nearly silent on homosexuality, a great deal of its content is devoted to how a Christian should behave. Throughout, the New Testament insists upon fairness, equity, love, and the rejection of legalism over compassion. If heterosexual Christians are obligated to look to the Bible to determine the sinfulness of homosexual acts, how much greater is their obligation to look to the Bible to determine the sinfulness of their behavior toward gay persons."

"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not covet," and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law " Romans 13:8-10

Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God"s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you " Colossians 3:11-13

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices"mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law"justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. " Matthew 23: 23-24"

Interesting how the Bible says you shall love thy neighbor not you shall love thy neighbor unless they are homosexual. If you can answer any of these or show how they cannot argue against the bibles statement on gays please do.

"Even a sin as heinous as murder we do not judge without first taking into account the context in which it occurred. Self-defense, protection of the innocent, during a war"we recognize that there are times when taking the life of another is not only not a sin, but a morally justified and even heroic act.

Christians evaluate the degree of sin, or even whether or not a real sin has occurred, by looking at both the harm caused by the sin, and the intent of the sin"s perpetrator.

They do, that is, for all sins except homosexuality."

"It is important to understand that even the most fundamentalist Christian sects do not take the Bible wholly literally. The New Testament is two thousand years old, the old Testament much older. The Bible"s cultural contexts, along with the translation at hand, is always taken into consideration by any Christian serious about understanding this vast and complex work.

To excerpt any isolated short passage from the Bible, and then claim for that passage absolute authority, is to fail to take the Bible on its own terms. If we wish to follow the word of God, then we must take the entirety of God"s words into account."

In conclusion a short quote cannot be enough to make being gay wrong. we have culturally and as people have changed. Something written over 2,000 years ago cannot be held as enough information to discriminate against a group of people.
S.Weekes

Con

Whoa buddy: You need to get back on topic and stop straying from the debate. We're discussing what the bible says here not what Christians say. I believe the debate is called "The BIBLE does not make being gay wrong" not The Christians do not make being gay wrong. Throughout this debate you have strayed away from challenges directed at your statement and flipped them around to reflect your personal views about your Catholics school. You stated that: "The BIBLE does not make being gay wrong" Yes it does, countless times. The following verses prove so:

Genesis 19:1-11
That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. "My lords," he said, "come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again." "Oh no," they replied. "We'll just spend the night out here in the city square." But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!"
So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. "Please, my brothers," he begged, "don't do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection."

"Stand back!" they shouted. "This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he's acting like our judge! We'll treat you far worse than those other men!" And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door. But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot into the house, and bolted the door. Then they blinded all the men, young and old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside. (NLT)

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." (NLT)

Judges 19:16-24
That evening an old man came home from his work in the fields. He was from the hill country of Ephraim, but he was living in Gibeah, where the people were from the tribe of Benjamin. When he saw the travellers sitting in the town square, he asked them where they were from and where they were going.

"We have been in Bethlehem in Judah," the man replied. "We are on our way to a remote area in the hill country of Ephraim, which is my home. I travelled to Bethlehem, and now I'm returning home. But no one has taken us in for the night, even though we have everything we need. We have straw and feed for our donkeys and plenty of bread and wine for ourselves."

"You are welcome to stay with me," the old man said. "I will give you anything you might need. But whatever you do, don't spend the night in the square." So he took them home with him and fed the donkeys. After they washed their feet, they ate and drank together. While they were enjoying themselves, a crowd of troublemakers from the town surrounded the house. They began beating at the door and shouting to the old man, "Bring out the man who is staying with you so we can have sex with him." The old man stepped outside to talk to them. "No, my brothers, don't do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this man's concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you like. But don't do such a shameful thing to this man." (NLT)

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel. (ESV)

1 Kings 15:12
He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. (ESV)

2 Kings 23:7
He also tore down the living quarters of the male and female shrine prostitutes that were inside the Temple of the LORD, where the women wove coverings for the Asherah pole. (NLT)

Romans 1:18-32
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarrelling, deception, malicious behaviour, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (NLT)

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

1 Timothy 1:8-10
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine ... (ESV)

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighbouring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment. (NIV)

So regardless of what Christians say; the BIBLE states over, and over, and over that homosexuality is wrong.

P.S. To all you voters out there, It's important to understand that I haven't cited any sources besides those next to the verses of the bible because this is about the bible.
Debate Round No. 4
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Longline 3 years ago
Longline
Roman Catholic have many many twisted belive of the Bible, and they are more of a political force then religion.
Posted by Elijahhill97 3 years ago
Elijahhill97
I forgot to cite my sources in the last round I will do so in the following round.
Posted by Elijahhill97 3 years ago
Elijahhill97
@S.weekes works for me!
Posted by S.Weekes 3 years ago
S.Weekes
@Elijahill97 Regardless they are still Christians. That's not debatable.
Posted by Elijahhill97 3 years ago
Elijahhill97
@S.weekes No but Catholics have different views and some beliefs than Christianity so they are still different
Posted by S.Weekes 3 years ago
S.Weekes
@Elijahhill97 Did I say that all Christians are Catholics?
Posted by Elijahhill97 3 years ago
Elijahhill97
@S.weekes actually you are partially incorrect sir. Catholicism is a denomination, and is, therefore, a subset of Christianity. All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics.
http://www.diffen.com...
Posted by S.Weekes 3 years ago
S.Weekes
@Longline Catholics are Christians.
Posted by Longline 3 years ago
Longline
This guy is talking about catholic believe, and his opponent is talking about Christian believe, how does this conect?
Posted by Elijahhill97 3 years ago
Elijahhill97
What do you mean by older?
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