The Instigator
JustCallMeTarzan
Pro (for)
Winning
40 Points
The Contender
GodSands
Con (against)
Losing
14 Points

The Bible Qualifies as a Collection of Fairy Tales - B

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
JustCallMeTarzan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/28/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,058 times Debate No: 6354
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (8)

 

JustCallMeTarzan

Pro

The proposition on offer is that the Bible qualifies as a collection of fairy tales. The letter is to disambiguate from other versions of the same debate.

Obviously by collection, I mean that there are more than one in the same book ("something that is collected; a group of objects or an amount of material accumulated in one location, esp. for some purpose or as a result of some process" - Dictionary.com). And by fairy tale, I mean the following:

Fairy Tale:
–noun
1. a story, usually for children, about elves, hobgoblins, dragons, fairies, or other magical creatures.
2. an incredible or misleading statement, account, or belief: His story of being a millionaire is just a fairy tale.

Thus, the resolution is satisfied if the Bible contains more than one story that is either about magical creatures or has incredible/misleading content.

*******************************
There are a number of magical and mythical creatures mentioned in the Bible. A short list:

Giants
Dragons
Cockatrices
Unicorns
The Cheldean's Horses
Sorcerers/Witches
Other Gods

The Bible also contains a number of stories with misleading (deceptive; tending to mislead -> to lead or guide wrongly or into error of conduct, thought, or judgment.; lead astray) or incredible (so extraordinary as to seem impossible, not credible; hard to believe; unbelievable). A short list:

Creation of Earth and Man
The Temptation and Fall of Adam and Eve
Life Spans of Adam, Noah, Methuselah, et al
Plagues of Egypt
Parting of the Red Sea
Jonah and the Great Fish

****************************

Evidence for each of these:

1. Giants - http://en.wikipedia.org......(mythology)

Gen 6:4 - "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Num 13:33 - "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

2. Dragons - http://en.wikipedia.org......

Rev 12:7 - "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

Isa 13:22 - "And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged."

3. Cockatrices - http://en.wikipedia.org......

Isa 11:8 - "And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den."

Jer 8:11 - "For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD."

4. Unicorns - http://en.wikipedia.org......

Job 39:9 - "Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?"

Psa 29:6 - "He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn."

5. The Cheldean's Horses - http://en.wikipedia.org......

Hab 1:8 - "Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat."

6. Sorcerers/Witches - http://en.wikipedia.org......

Acts 13:8 - "But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith."

1 Sam 15:23 - "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."

7. Other Gods - http://en.wikipedia.org......

Jud 2:13 - "And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth."

Jud 10:6 - " And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him."

8. Creation of Earth and Man (Genesis 1, 2)

God snaps his fingers and makes the world, then forms man from some dust and woman from one of man's ribs.

9. The Temptation and Fall of Adam and Eve (Genesis 1-3; 4-5)

God, who knew the natures of Adam and Eve allows Satan to tempt them and then evicts them from the Garden of Eden. They subsequently begin breeding the human race.

10. Life Spans of Adam, Noah, Methuselah, et al (Genesis 1-5; 6; 5)

These Biblical characters supposedly lived for 390, 600, and 900 years respectively.

11. Plagues of Egypt (Exodus 7-12)

Seven plagues strike Egypt in the space of about a week and a half. Highly improbable, and some of the plagues are physically impossible (water to blood).

12. Parting of the Red Sea (Exodus 13-15)

Somehow Moses strikes a body of water with a piece of fabric and the water moves out of the way long enough for a bunch of people to walk across the sea, but not long enough for hundreds of chariot-riding Egyptians to catch them.

13. Jonah and the Great Fish (Book of Jonah, 2 Kings 14)

Somehow Jonah lives inside the belly of a large fish for three days. The fish then decides to regurgitate him conveniently on the beach somewhere.

***********************************

This is just a short list of the absurdities and nonsense the Bible contains. It is easy to see how this qualifies as a collection of fairy tales. Even if all these stories are metaphorical, they are still about mythical creatures. In other places, the Bible delivers stories that seem to suggest that seeking complex medical attention is wrong (Jam 5:14-15; 2 Chr 16:12). I would call that misleading. Stories of physical impossibilities, highly improbable events... all incredible stories.... and all qualify as fairy tales.

AFFIRMED.
GodSands

Con

I've heard from people who do not understand the Bible as it being named a book of fairly tales, becuse the events may not happen while the skeptical are alive. Hi im Josh....only joking lol I'm happen to take this debate.

I will try and hit on every "error" Pro has put forth. It says in Job 38.4 "Where were thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declear if thou has understanding."

Fairly tale by defintion of a human perspective you should have put. Like most fairly tale creature they are actually inspired by real living or once lived creatures. As humans name creature when found, for example dragon is a out dated name from dinosaur, as dinosaur (the word) was founded in 1841. Before that people called dinosuars dragons. As the word dinoraur means "terirrble lizzard".

Dragons: Many stories linked to dragon e.g. George and the Dragon, is a legendary story of a staint who defeaded a dragon. As it was in the 11th centary the word dinosaur was not founded. As dinosaurs are great beasts, you would have been called a hero for defeading one of them. And as more and more dinosaurs became exstict, more and more George and the Dragon became lagendary. I still believe there are a few dinosaurs around today, sighting of huge lizzards have been spotted in the Kongo in Africa. Because of my oponion I will surly lose this debate. Again. Job 40.17 "He moveth his tale like a cedar." A cedar "large tree" in the west. No animal today has a tale like it. Elephant nore a hippopotamas. It had to be linked with either a suaropod dinosaur. This is in the book of Job before any recorded dinosaur bones were found. This is strong proof dinosaurs lived with man.

Giants: Today you would think a gaint would be an outrage. Jack and the bean stork. You might think. But very rarely there are people who stand 7 to 8 feet tall and the tallest man was 8ft 11ichs tall according to the Guinness book of records, almost 9ft. Robert Wadlow was referd to as a "Gentle Giant". Based on the theme of evolution, being tall should be an avantage, being tall, you can get to places where others phyically could not. When refering to mirco evolution (which is true) you can see the effects. As thereare little tall people are being born, and as humans are now starting to sustain a balence of sizes, you could say that the DNA which a tall person carries is effectly being less and less used. You may think that we as humans where shorter in the middle ages and brfore that. But since the Great Flood of Noah, killed everyone apart from 8 people. Noah's family (Noah included). As the sea rised the water almost ingolfed the oxygen. After a year on the Ark the was slowly sank into the ground and rised into the sky to be turned into clouds. You would think as the water sank oxygen as a gas would escape back into the atmosphere. This may as well have happened and now humans are growing tall again. As Peter predicted that the Golden Age would be long forgotten (and so it has). As humans we are adapting to the oxygen levels, the more oxygen the taller and faster we grow. As the Bible tells the Earth was made "very good" even today being taller is better. linking the fact of being tall being "very good" I believe before the flood that humans were much taller than after the flood because of a sudden change in oxygen levels. Now there are some occorises ois with micro evolution interfering, tall people usally suffer from conitions. Back problems, neck problems etc...The growth is controlled at teh back of the brain. It tells the body mostly in the teen years to grow. But when theres a growth disorder the skelaton grows out of preportion to the rest of the body such as the heart, when the heart isn't able to pump blood around the body fast enough, thats when the person dies. (example) Giants.

Cockatrice: As soon as i looked at a pictre of one as these creatures, it took my mind right back to what evolutionist think as half dinosaur and bird. The Archaeopteryx, it's a bird not a missing link. Anyway. Thats a different debate. This creature has a large fetherd tale. With claws on it's wings and with teeth. Many birds today have teeth and claws on there wings. The Hoatzin is such bird, alive today. I believe as the Cockatrice has wings like a dragon and fethers like a bird, people who lived with this creature might have thought it to be half bird and half dragon as it had claws and teeth. So this was each feature was expressed way over what the crature looked like. And was made into a legend, over geniration people added to this creature. Like a game of chises whispers. As their knowledge of science was poor in those days. They clearly did not know about micro evolution. The Bible does not mention any of the cockatrices features as far as i know. (Place me wrong if it does.)

Unicorns: Again this word is a man translation, for a possible existing creature. It is easliy possible that a rinosrus inspired the myth of the name unicorn and since rino is a man made word. Futher to the point A unicorn is no different to a horse, accept unicorn has a horn on the head, between the eyes. It is quite possible that his breed of horse name unicorn became exstict after hunting. For the use of it's horn would have made a great wepon. It is also possible that the unicorn was hunted so much that it became exstict very quickly making it a mythical creature. Apart the word unicorn being a latin word. I have no idea were the orgins of the unicorn came from. All over the world there are myths of the creature. Just like the Great flood.

I will not get through all your questioning and quotations in this first part.

The Chaldeans Horses: I Googled this and there was no disproving links of this. Only links which inhansted the story for people who did not know of it. Whats the problem?

Sorcerers/Witches: Witches exists today, the Bbble never states that a witch flies on a broom stick and has a pointed hat. Those types of witches are mythical. The type of witches the Bible talks about are ones which curse people, meddle with the dead, and call spirits. You must know witches exists even in the moden world. It called witchcraft.
Sorcery known as maleficium as a latin word for "wrongdoing" So people who are sorcerers are people doing wrong in the eye of the puplic. Mischief is another word for the same meaning. Up to no good. And by saying no good it mean that. 0% good. 100% bad. This can also mean calling the dead, making deadly posions. Even mixing alcohole. Etc...People exist today which do such mischeif.

Other Gods: Other gods exist. But by following the Bible, the only True and most powerful God should be followed. For your penifit. The God which made this relm (universe) The God which has the power to build such a place. Also the God which you resenbile, not a god which you do not. As it says we are made from the image of God. Bring such god like Zuse into this universe is herasi, not saying Zuse even exists, i doubt he does. Hes a dead god. But such gods like Ala are false and take more faith to believe in. Reminding that Jesus is the son of God. InquireTruth is doing a debate on that.

"Creation of Earth and Man
The Temptation and Fall of Adam and Eve
Life Spans of Adam, Noah, Methuselah, et al
Plagues of Egypt
Parting of the Red Sea
Jonah and the Great Fish"

Can we do one part at a time lol. I'm finishing here I'll continue the second part (what i just quoted) next time.
Debate Round No. 1
JustCallMeTarzan

Pro

A few responses to GodSands' statements...

>> "Fairly tale by defintion of a human perspective you should have put."

I'm curious what other perspective one could take...

>> "As humans name creature when found, for example dragon is a out dated name from dinosaur, as dinosaur (the word) was founded in 1841. Before that people called dinosuars dragons. As the word dinoraur means "terirrble lizzard"."

My opponent's main source of argument seems to be etymological... very well....

**************************

1. Dragons.

My opponent references George and the Dragon, and works backward to the assertion that dragons were really dinosaurs or ancestors of the huge lizards in the Congo. However, the Hebrew word "tannin," which translates literally as "sea or land monster" is used in place of a word like "nachash," which means serpent or snake. It is most likely that the animal referenced in Job 40 is a hippopotamus or a crocodile, both of which historically inhabited the Nile area of Egypt and could have conceivably wandered over to Judea. Job's place of residence is not mentioned either, and could have easily been in that region. Furthermore, the use of "tannin" indicates that the writer was referring to a monster, which would fall under the category of a magical creature OR an incredible statement.

2. Giants

My opponent asserts that the Great Flood killed everyone except 8 people and reduced the local oxygen content of the middle east to such an extent that it pygmied the people there. Historical evidence points to malnutrition and poor living conditions for reasons why humans were not tall. Also, skeletal remains of Homo Sapiens from before the time of the great flood show more normal-sized humans. Furthermore, the return of ambient oxygen levels would have been instantaneous, as the water would displace ALL gasses, not just oxygen. There is no historical evidence of giants.

3. Cockatrices

GodSands seems to assert that the Cockatrice is some kind of bird/dragon thing that had characteristics added onto it by oral tradition. He also contends that the Cockatrice may have been similar to a Hoatzin, an actual bird. However, the bible uses the Hebrew word "tziph'oni" which is much closer to basilisk, another magical/mythical creature. I submit that the Hoatzdin and any sort of Basilisk cannot be related in any way, as the Hoatzdin is Class Aves and the Basilisk (or "King Serpent") would have been Class Sauropsida or Reptilia.

4. Unicorns

Actually, I will concede the point on the unicorn, as I agree that it is a translation error. The Hebrew word used in the verses is "re'em," the plural of "rimu," a type of ox... Though for the record, I must state that your argument on this point was completely unconvincing.

5. The Chaldean's Horses

Horses that are "swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves" and who, with their riders, "fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat." ?? Sounds like a problem to me...

7. Sorcerers/Witches

My opponent contends that witches exist today, as though there are people that can channel strange powers and bend reality. This is utterly uncompelling. He also contends that the witches in the bible are the mystical kind, conceding the point that the bible has stories about magical characters.

8. Other Gods

My opponent admits that other Gods exist, and thus concedes the point that the bible contains stories about magical characters, unless he holds that the other gods have no power, in which case, they are incredible statements... a powerless god?

************************************

>> "Can we do one part at a time lol. I'm finishing here I'll continue the second part (what i just quoted) next time."

I suppose we can.... perhaps I should have made this a 5 rounder...

*************************************

To sum up...

Dragons - Hebrew has words for serpent, snake, and even basilisk... but it uses one meaning monster instead.
Giants - No historical evidence for these creatures.
Cockatrices - Not Aves, not Sauropsida, not Reptilia.... Mythicalia....
Unicorns - Dropped
Cheldean's Horses - Swift as leopards and fly like a hungry eagle... my opponent sees no problem with them.
Sorcers/Witches - Conceded by CON
Other Gods - Conceded by CON

AFFIRMED.
GodSands

Con

He also contends that the witches in the bible are the mystical kind, conceding the point that the bible has stories about magical characters."- No I said they were not the mythical type.

"skeletal remains of Homo Sapiens from before the time of the great flood show more normal-sized humans."
Sure. Deciding a date for which time period the Homo sapiens skeletons. This would be a different debate. Could be that these Homo sapiens lifed after the flood, since they are humans.

"Unicorns - Dropped" No not quite. Another creature could of haved a horn on its head, then humans just mid and matched features of the horse and another creature. You know how wrong the first finders of dinosaur bone got it. Remember words are only names, the Bible could be talking about a rhino for all I know. Or for all you know.

I believe that Satan has cleverly tricked some of us in believing in evolution. As evolution has no limitations and neither does God. To sum this up.

God needs no time to create.
Evolution needs the use of time to create.
God has no limations.
Evolutions also has no limations.
Anything is possible through God.
Anything is possible through evolution.
God made the universe and completed it in 6 days.
Evolution never finishes its work, its a on going theory. No ending there.
A belief in evolution fully leads people to think God is a illusion.
A belief in God fully leads people to think evolution is a illusion also.
God allows one to choose his/her path.
Evolution, you are there to be stepped on.
God: there is none better than you, none can be you, you are fit your who you are.
Evolution: you are who you are, there will be others better than you always, you life a meaningless life.
God is God, none are like Him.
Evolution allows you to become god like, if not now, you will become gods. Genesis 3:4-5 �€œYou will not surely die for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.�€�
Which sounds more fairly tale like to you. We can become god like. Or there are a few creatures which are unknown, for now.

"Creation of Earth and Man
The Temptation and Fall of Adam and Eve
Life Spans of Adam, Noah, Methuselah, et al
Plagues of Egypt
Parting of the Red Sea
Jonah and the Great Fish"

Ill start with the easiest

Parting the red sea: Surprizingly divers have actually explored the red sea. They found under the water a bridge like walk path, 90ft under neth the waters surface, either side there is 400ft or more of water. Alone this bridge they found old wheels from horse carts and carts them selfs. And ofcourse they found skeletons of both horse and man. There is plenty of proof for this. Quotation "I am 99.9 percent sure I picked up a chariot wheel," Peter Elmer tells WorldNetDaily after two diving trips to the Gulf of Aqaba branch of the sea. "It was covered in coral."
I will leave a link, which will let you see the atical. http://www.wnd.com...

Jonah and the Great Fish: In Mathew 12:40 the "Great fish" is recalled as a whale. but the original Greek from which it was translated calls it a "sea monster". So what was it, fish or whale? Firstly though, lets see if its even possible to survivl 3 days in a gaint belly. I read up that people say a whale belly is too small to hold a man. Well you can swim through a blue whales blood vesal. According to the story Jonah was not digested, different sea creatures use different method of digesting, some use stones to grid up food. We are not given enough information in the Bible to make out what tpye of creature swollowed Jonah up. So any ideas on how Jonah was not digested can only be suggest and speculated. The Bible tells that God pretected the Great fish, so in that God would have pretected Jonah, in which by pretection, not seriously hamed or even halmed at all. As God prepared the Great fish.

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40, Son of man as Son of God as Jesus.

Moden day Jonah's

There's a number of books on modern day Jonah's. One is by J.Vernon McGee, the book that alleges to tell of othe accounts of recent or medern day people who have been swallowed by whales. I can not verifiy any, unforturtaliy. And some of them have been refuted.

Creation of Earth and Man: This is as comppelling as evolution. Sinse we are here, alive. I have always stuck by that only love and joy brings life. God is love and love makes joy. You can't love went dead, and everyone reading this loves life. No! So i give you this question. Why and how would none living/loving matter give birth? Sounds outragous, and I'm the one believing in fairly tales, huh. Not only does it seem outragously impossible, but no one has every recreated life from none life. Even with all the different elements, acids and tools. This none living into living matter nonsense have even driven scientists to think alians have planted life on Earth. 3.5 billion years ago. I believe that theory denies evolution its self. By having aliens much more intelligent than humans, in evolutional terms would take alot longer than 3.5 billion years. To evolve the gift to make life your self with in the time of 12 billion years would defy and abuse evolution. Ofcourse as soon as the "Big Bang" occoured life did not appear straight away. As far as evolutionists are concened life appear 12 billion years later. You as a evolutionist can only speculated why life of Earth took 12 billion years to start, and why other life took a meer 3 times less? Maybe. Which makes 10.5 billion years of evolution. I personaily believe there is other life. But no of this universe, from different dimentions. Look up Chuck Missler, for that information. A more fitting theory i think is creation. It deals with less problems and has a etenal being to start it all off. A great tool for evolution would be etenity, since time is not a issue. It only completes the problems through chance and time useage. In this effect God is a evolutional result, which would take forever to create. As it says God's power is unlimated. Infact you are treating alians as such a god(s). Which have equal power that is to create life. From pertenaliy nothing. Like the Bible says God made everything from nothing, also this is what the "Big Bang" did. God is the finished business of evolution. Using the element of infinity, but like Saten said you will become gods, this point is still untrue. Saten was only trying you make us believe that we can become a god like figure. Through the laws of nature what God has laid out. Evolution i believe it's impossible. Being only one other theory, Creation is the way in my opioion. Whos the fairly tale believer now. <<<(This statment may with hold.)

The Temptation and Fall of Adam and Eve: What do you mean by this as a fairly tale. All humans are tempted. As God said, it was very good. There was no sin. And now there is. Sin is evil. Evilness is sin.

Once Eve ate from the tree of knowledge Saten was fufilled with victory. Even then went to Adem and told Adem "go on eat it" I did. This occours all the time today. When one of your friends gets drunk, He will also try to make you drink also. I believe partly the reason is because the blame will not be pushed just on him. The one is drunk. Just like Eve in the Garden. Another effect temptation in the Bible has today is blaming other. Like Adem blamed Eve and Eve blamed Saten. I strickly believe that it is your self to blame, when you do wrong. This also puts forth that sin is wrong by your own admission. Otherwise why the blaming? One way to know God is by blaming your self and amitting you are wrong. Say, by getting drunk is wrong, you need to turn from others who are full blaming others and blame your self.

Out of space.

....Continue....
Debate Round No. 2
JustCallMeTarzan

Pro

Some responses:

>> "[ME - the witches in the bible are the mystical kind] - No I said they were not the mythical type.

What he said was "The type of witches the Bible talks about are ones which curse people, meddle with the dead, and call spirits." He has conceded that the bible talks about characters that require magical power.

>> "Sure. Deciding a date for which time period the Homo sapiens skeletons. This would be a different debate. Could be that these Homo sapiens lifed after the flood, since they are humans."

I'm puzzled by this. Humans were clearly around before the great flood. Homo Sapiens have been around for more than a million years...

>> "I believe that Satan has cleverly tricked some of us in believing in evolution."

This makes my day.

************************************

I have no idea why my opponent wastes space discussing the character of God and the comparison to evolution, but on to the actual points in the round!

On the Red Sea.

Here is a picture of the "chariot wheel" from my opponent's source: (http://www.wnd.com...) It looks like a hunk of coral to me. Simply because an amateur diver is "99.9% sure" he has a wheel does not indicate the story is true.

On Jonah and the Fish.

My opponent does nothing to address the notion that a sea monster, whale, or great fish could swallow a man whole for three days and then conveniently spit him up on or near the beach. This story is obviously a fairy tale of quite incredible content.

On The Creation of Earth and Man

Again - I'm puzzled by the discourse on evolution, creation, love, the big bang, and God's power... this is about how God supposedly created the world in seven days and man from dirt, and woman from man's rib. Again - obviously a fairy tale of incredible content.

On The Temptation of Adam/Eve

Come now - two people created the human race? This doesn't account for genetic diversity, let alone the fact that the minimum viable long-term human population is something like 10,000 (http://alfin2100.blogspot.com...).

***********************************

As this is my last post, I should sum up...

My opponent has not addressed nearly all of the points I have made, and has provided an inadequate defense of each of the positions. My characterizations of these points remains the same - they are stories about magical creatures, or contain incredible and/or unbelievable content. Ergo, they are fairy tales.

AFFIRMED.
GodSands

Con

Please only vote if you have read both sides of the story. Cheating isn't it if your vote and do not read.

JCMT has given me alot to answer. I think JCMT debate on "is a Bible a fairly tale" As he knows nothing of what was before him personally, all books in the Bible were written as and in personal exspriences. The people who wrote the Bible did. Why do you choose to believe JCMT? And his skeptical questioning. Come closer and become personal. Stop shifting in the shadows.

"this is about how God supposedly created the world in seven days" I do not believe God made the universe in 7 days but 6. I don't know how God made the universe otherwise, I would be God. You were not there when God made the universe nor do I give any photos of the creation as God was making the universe as I was not there. But I can say that we did not come from nothing. Did you come from nothing? I know what your thinking. You can believe that the multi-verse is ever lasting, but why, isn't is physical too like this universe. Why is time included here in this universe but not in the multi-verse. So I ask you where does everything come from? If not God then where? By saying the "Big Bang" wont help, you know it all, I will say where did that come from. And you will say we don't know. But will you ever know. And if that day came, if so why. What is the purpose. There is no level of meaning, all what you do is meaningless. Your job, friends and all time spent. For nothing. As nothing made all. There fore I believe God Made the universe.

"Come now - two people" Come now - a pool of soup made ever creature and plant to ever exist. Come now - Hot vents at the bottom of the ocean made all what there is, plant and animal to ever exist. Come now - Aliens planted us, Do you not use your mind, don't you think God planted us. I say, it is more likely and promising that God was the cause. Not aliens, not creatures unworthily like aliens. Wouldn't it be more likely that God made us, This is what God has made, if you believe your theories, make me turn to them like I have to God. Were we not born with equal knowledge of this universe? So why do you ponder that God did not create. He is a true God after all. If this world has no meaningful being, then this world is meaningless. More personally if you do not know a meaningful being then you do not know who you are. By saying this universe is meaningless then by saying there must be a God. God will bring us to meaning and this is? Justice. No? So I believe.

"Humans were clearly around before the great flood. Homo Sapiens have been around for more than a million years..."

And so they were, they were taller and lived much longer too. I go 75/25 on that answer, two things I disagree on, one is that humans have not been around for 3.5 million years. It shows how slow evolution is and your thinking. Your thinking is in an evolutionary model. When your mind has gathered all the information it will point you to God. As God is the ultimate thinker. It is difficult to explain, it makes good sense though. We are born equal in knowledge, in a job you move up the ladder and you gain respect. In life you move up the ladder, moving through stages. You go through bad and good times. Your thinking improves as you grow old. But what holds you back is evilness. You will say to me you believe in God because it would comfort me. This is not the case. But you do not believe in God and instead believe in evolution and the "Big Bang" because it comforts you, like it comforts your sins and wrong doings. The "Big Bang" is the pillow and evolution is the sheet. You feel uncomfortable with out one of them, as the "Big Bang" and evolution are linked, you don't have a bed with just a pillow or you don't have a bed with just a sheet. Like in the same way God is my bed, the Holy Spirit is my pillow and Jesus is my sheet. I missed out bed because the bed is the cause and the meaning, and that you do not have. Like nothing you also sleep at night on nothing. As you believe in the "Big Bang". God made the universe. Like the bed I am complete. Are you? This is why I believe in the 6 day creation as it completes me.

"Life Spans of Adam, Noah, Methuselah, et al" Life varies, people die young and old. But why do people die older than other. We are all equal, we all live in a human body. We God made the universe He said He saw it as "very good" As soon as Adam and Eve ate the fruit, sin and death was born. Disease were brought into our world, this brought in illnesses and death. When you catch a cold your body wears down, bacteria is corrupt cells as far as I know. This is why we now live shorter life spans as bacteria is eating away at it. It those days there was no bacteria so they lived a very long time. You may think wait. Why did people in the Medieval times live in till 40. Well it is because they were very unclean, flew and illness spread fast and their knowledge in medicine was poor. We are beginning to live long since doctor's and scientists are beginning to understand how to cure are bodies from bacteria some we will not catch disease. So why did Adam and Eve, Noah and Methuselah live to be so old is because there was no deformed cells. As our body is made up of them. No faith is needed. It is a scientific reason why they lived so long.

"Plagues of Egypt" Moses was a great massager of God (messager means angel in Hebrew) and as Pharaoh kept God's people as slaves so God demanded His people to be set free, and sent Moses to Egypt to set God's people free. Moses was given powers from God. This powers indicates God as being real. All what you want to see has happened. All what you want to see to make you believe has happened a thousand times over. As there is proof of the divide in the Red sea. Deny Moses and his powers you deny God. As it was God who gave the powers. Another reason why God gave Moses powers was because it was crucial for the slaves to be set free. Why do not start on water turning into Blood before you start of Jesus turning water into wine? Why do you ask, Pharaoh's Son dies, I thought God did not kill. God is just and loving, full of raft all at the same time as God is a infinite being. We can not as humans be all those at once as we are finite and limited beings. To really understand Moses, you need to understand God's power otherwise you would not believe. This is one of those biblical stories where reading the NT would be useful. Firstly stop being skeptical, that would help. Open your door to God's existence.

Jonah and the Fish - Just because you are in a stomach of a giant fish, does that mean you are dead? Does it mean you can not live for 3 days? If the Bible did not talk of Jonah and the Fish, and I asked you "I heard a rumor that a man was swallowed by a whale" would you believe me more? Only because it's in the Bible it indicates God which you by heart hate. As you love what makes you happy.

Who are you to question. Before you question the Best ever seller the Bible. Question such things as Stone Henge, The Great wall of China, evolution and the "Big Bang" as would you not want to make sure that what you believe is real is real. Destroy your skeptical thinking, be open and test your self. You don't build a house in your mind. You build a house by building one. By this I mean: do not think what God is like but know what God is like. Only way is by knowing God. Still believe God and the Bible is a fairly tale? Then think "where am I if this is all there is, I question people for being arrogant yet my whole existence is arrogance as i know nothing of where and who I am." You may know your name and you may have a good personality which differs you from everyone else but how and where did it come from? Question these things before you question the Bible, find and ask God. That is all.

With all the Information which I have given, think about it, do not just be arrogant over it all.

Thank You very very much.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mecap 8 years ago
mecap
Oops... right, there you go! I remember somebody explained how to detect if GodSands is using presenting his own view or a copy and paste, I'll try to recall it:

0. GodSends uses proper grammar:
1. Yes: goto 3.
2. No: goto 4.
3. It's a copy and paste.
4. A tiny man came out of his head and wrote every other word, while GodSends did the rest!
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
His arguments were copy-pasted from several different sources... do a Google search on coherent phrases and you will see - lol...
Posted by mecap 8 years ago
mecap
This is probably one of the ONLY debates where GodSands speaks in coherent sentences... WOW, I'm amazed! It just looks like he stopped taking his medication or somebody hijacked his account and is posting some crazy stuff now...
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
"3 meters IS about 16 feet...." 3 metres is about 10, 11ft 16ft is about 4metres. They saw a giant eagle which its wing length was room length when i said 16ft ithat was a guess passing through my mind, but there said it was alot more than 3 metres.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
"Before you question the Best ever seller the Bible." Question the books and figgure out why there not selling that good, like the books on evolution or the God Dellusion.
Posted by jjmd280 8 years ago
jjmd280
Maybe he'll listen to you, M - but I doubt it.
Posted by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
GS, seriously, you need to do yourself a favor. In all honesty I am not trying to offend you, rather I am trying to give you some good advice. Read the dictionary and write down every word. Read every word and it's definition, and do this every day until you can spell. You are 18 and you are at the literacy level of a 3 year old- 7 year old at best, but 7 year olds should be spelling much better than you do.
Posted by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
No offense to GodSands, but this was like a kindergartener debating Solomon. I think GodSands' mind is a collection of fairy tales, though I don't believe the bible is.

Before/After: Con
Conduct: Tie

S&G: Pro
Someone needs to go back to school...

Convincing Arguments: Pro
I don't think Con convinced even himself. He argued "unicorns" after Pro conceded that point. WTF? The flood caused oxygen levels to drop? So was EVERYONE a giant before the flood, and Noah and his family shrunk??? The entire Universe was created in six days? Evolution gives the illusion that God is not real? I cannot enumerate the myriad of nonsensical statements made by Con...

Sources: Pro
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
>> "Actually i know two people who saw a flying egal which was about 16 feet across wing tip to wing tip. Todays record is 3 metres, wing tip to wing tip."

3 meters IS about 16 feet....
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Actually i know two people who saw a flying egal which was about 16 feet across wing tip to wing tip. Todays record is 3 metres, wing tip to wing tip. They also claim to have seen a Angel 90ft tall or so, angel Gabreal is surppose to be that tall. They claim it was a very real exspriance, i too found it not easy to believe, I thought about it now, and now i do. I know these people Charly and Jacky are their names.
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