The Instigator
manpower2
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
gryephon
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

The Bible does not fit in with modern day social standards

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
gryephon
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/16/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 503 times Debate No: 67139
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

manpower2

Pro

1. the first round is just acceptance to the challenge
2. the last 3 rounds are anything you want to say
3. nothing rude

I believe that the Bible is sexist and homophobic and does not meet the social acceptances of modern day.
gryephon

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
manpower2

Pro

I believe that the bible does not correspond with the social standards of modern living.

First of all, I do understand that you may say that the bible wasn't meant to correspond with society, but society is meant to correspond with the bible. To that I say that not all people are Christians in society, and even though the majority are (in Britain and America) if you factor out the number of Christians who don't follow the bible strictly and don't live by it, then the number of Christians left probably make up the minority in society.

Secondly, it is clear that the bible is extremely sexist towards women, and there are excessive amounts of quotes I could bore you with, but I'll only use a couple: "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says" (1 Corinthians 14:34), "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22), and finally; "woman is the glory of man." (1 Corinthians 11:7). All these quotes highlight the fact that times were very different when these books were written, and that there was tremendous gender inequality, however, times have changed, with both genders being treated more equally in everyday life, and men not seen as superior or having power over women, but they are both equal in their relationship (in most cases). Therefore the Bible does not encourage equality between genders, and sends out the completely wrong messages to Christians in modern society, and if it's doing anything, it's causing clashes and conflict.

Lastly, homosexuality. It is clear that the bible is anti-gay by condemning homosexuals to death and calling their acts 'abominations': "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13), "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22). I would say that society has, mainly, accepted homosexuality as a natural thing, as it happens all around us in the animal kingdom, it was the norm in Ancient Greek society, and many people are revealing their love for the same sex, and by the bible encouraging such hurtful things, conflicts are caused in modern society when most people have already accepted homosexuality.

Overall, the bible does not send out the right message for this time and society by sentencing homosexuals to death, encouraging the abhorrent inequality of the genders and generally saying that different is bad in society. The bible is dragging society behind in its old-fashioned, unequal, imbalanced demeanour. People who follow these sexist homophobic 'laws' are attempting to claw their way back to times when human rights were not equal, and people were narrow minded and ignorant.
gryephon

Con







First
of all, I do understand that you may say that the bible wasn't meant to correspond with society, but society is meant to correspond with the bible.

You are correct that not everybody is Christian. But the thing is, the Bible is rarely addressed to all societies. I mean the letter of Paul was addressed to Christians, the law for ancient Israel. They’re not usually addressed to say non-theists like atheists, secularist and such. So it doesn’t really impose much social standards on the people it’s not addressed to.



Secondly, it is clear that the bible is extremely sexist towards women

Sexist? No God does not favor one gender more than the other. If God favored man more than the woman, why is there circumcision? I think he would be sending the wrong message if he liked men more, it’s like saying “I like men more, and so I’ll have his testicles cut.”

The problem with saying the Bible is sexist (favoring men) is that a majority of the time it’s talking about husbands and wives, not the entire population of men and women. It does not say “Women submit to Men.” That would be a flat out misinterpretation because of Deborah, who was both a prophetess and Judge over Israel (Judges 4:1).

The reason why women submit is more for evangelistic reasons then sexist. It’s so that the woman can win over the man. Peter talks about this in 1 Peter 3:1-2. “Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct.”

Yes, Eve deceived Adam. Which is why women do not speak in church. Granted the word speak is often interpreted like preaching, apparently things like prayer and prophesying were allowed activities because of Paul mentioning in 1 Corinthians 11:5.

Yes, women are the glory of man. For woman came from the rib of a man. They are neither inferior nor superior to men. Yes, women do take on a more subordinate role in the Christian model of marriages. To note, being submissive doesn’t really make one inferior in Christianity… after all, Jesus came in the image of a servant, not of a god. And he was submissive to god even though he was aware that he would die on the cross. And Jesus now days is worshipped like that of a god, despite his submissive nature.



Lastly, homosexuality.

To be clear here, what society are you talking about? Some societies still don’t accept gays like others. What society do you speak of? The US, Africa? The pro-gay social groups or the anti-gay social groups?

Also, those commandments were given to Israel in those days and not given to Christians. Christians typically do not carry out judgment for it’s not a role that has been given to us. Am I saying that the commandments are wrong? No. The commandment is good. The problem with homosexuality is that it teaches you to embrace your lust instead of controlling it. From the lust of the flesh comes pedophile, bestiality, polygyny, etc. this is why it’s not wrong for a nation to make sexual intercourse between men and men a capital punishment.

As another note. Society shouldn’t really follow in the footsteps of the animal kingdom because “it’s natural”. For that kingdom practices many horrible abominations, ranging from cannibalism to incest. Humanity is not a natural race, for it is a rational species, unlike the irrational animals. So it makes little sense to base itself off things that is natural, for it is not natural.

Homosexuals do not reveal love, they reveal their lust for one another. There is a difference. For I love my buddies, but I do not have a desire to exchange sex with them.

Debate Round No. 2
manpower2

Pro

manpower2 forfeited this round.
gryephon

Con

Opponent has forfeited. I will assume the debate is over at this point.
Debate Round No. 3
manpower2

Pro

manpower2 forfeited this round.
gryephon

Con

No arguments by my opponent. So nothing more to debate.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by manpower2 2 years ago
manpower2
Sorry about that @gryephon I was on holiday at the time of the debate, but because I missed out I accept the defeat
Posted by manpower2 2 years ago
manpower2
Sorry, @MattStPaul , what I meant today was that no gender should be superior. Sorry about that. And I still do believe that I am right :P
Posted by MattStPaul 2 years ago
MattStPaul
manpower2:
You wrote, "...but nobody should submit to anyone. no-one is more powerful or superiores, some people are more superior and more powerful."

That is false. Some people ARE superior over others.

For example, I submit to my teachers because they have superior intellect and superior experience. Until I surpass them, I will submit myself to them BECAUSE they are superior to me in intellect.
Another: the police have superior "presence" than I do, so when they flash their lights I submit to them and pull my speeding car over.
Some people ARE superior to others. That does not mean the weaker people are worth less, but that they are just inferior in this or that realm. Nor does it mean my wife is less, just because when it comes to making decisions and leading a home the Scriptures place that burden/blessing on the husband.

Honestly examine yourself and you will find plenty of examples of this in your own life. Do you own a pet? Do you have a job? A pet is OBVIOUSLY dependent upon you- his superior. You are OBVIOUSLY dependent upon your boss ... your Superior. When do you take a break? When can you leave? When do you have to roll out of bed, shower, and then go to work? Answer: whenever your Superior tells you to. You have some say-so, but that"s just it: a small say-so. You aren"t inferior; you are just in a position of inferiority, NOT equality.

It is FALSE that life is Equal. Life is plainly Unequal. Some of us are math geniuses, thus, they are deferred to when we have math questions. Some are carpenters, so if we need a shelf built we ask the Superior carpenter. Some of us know how to raise a family, and in that case, we defer to God ... ... (our Superior).

So, focus on your debate. Quit paying attention to me. You know I'm right anyway :P HAHA! Over and out.
-MSP
Posted by Longline 2 years ago
Longline
There is definitely a lot of credit following this point. (The Bible does not fit in with modern day social standards)
I agree, the Bible is an ancient knowledge that need to be refine. today thinkers are not as the pass. life today we have to do things that would normally, back in time doing it would not cost any harm. for example that Bible condemn mirage before sex. well back then from the bible records, humans used to live for more then 800 years. That's 800 years, if I have that many years to live, I would not worry about sex until I'm a hundred years old. today, you truly start life by 20years old, and another 20 to have kids and get life understood, another 20 to think about your death 60years old, the next 20 your your death fully planed for so that your kids don't suffer after you die. that is something to think.
Posted by manpower2 2 years ago
manpower2
I respect what you have said, and people like you are the ones going by the bible slightly more reasonably. the fact that she has a say in things certainly elevates her status, but the problem that I have with your comment is that all throughout that paragraph you never mentioned that you were equals in this. I believe that everyone should listen to everyone's views and opinions, and take them on board, but nobody should submit to anyone. no-one is more powerful or superior, whether it be in a relationship or in everyday life, and just because people lived like this hundreds of years ago, does not mean we should. going back to your example, you are still not equal in the relationship. she still submits to you, and YOU still make the decisions that you believe are right. Even though you sometimes seek her advice, it is only when she is asked for, otherwise she would quibble and talk as she wishes. living in submission like this only encourages the inequality of genders and wrongly teaches people that men are superior and better than women.
Posted by MattStPaul 2 years ago
MattStPaul
I am a conservative Christian and my wife, a brilliant woman with her doctorate degree from Ole Miss, wholeheartedly believes women should submit to their husbands. My wife teaches that and she lives by it. She defers to my judgment. She does not quibble. She does not bicker or fuss. And I decide what's best for our family. What you ALL forget (as you did here, Pro) is that Ephesians 5.25--"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church."-- is the other half of what you quoted, Ephesians 5.22--"Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands."
As much as my wife defers to me, I defer to her (Ephesians 5.21, submitting ourselves to one another). I ask her advice. I seek her opinion. I weigh her thoughts. You mistakenly think a wife submitting to a husband is negative because it relegates her to some inferior status. My wife would disagree. She would tell you that by submitting to me, she has obtained an elevated status. She has obtained for herself a doting lover, a husband who supports her unconditionally, who lets her vent when she is frustrated, who believes in who she is as a person and believes she can accomplish EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. She gets my thoughts, my prayers, my concern, my support. She gets Dark Chocolate, too (b/c she LOVES dark chocolate) ... and peppermint mochas anytime she wants. And at night, when we are reading debate.org and she gets thirsty, guess what ... ... I make her hot tea (I even serve it to her... but "shhhhhhhhh," don't tell the Women's Liberation Crusaders--they might actually fix their cause).
In the end, she gets the last laugh. She has all of my devotion and I highly respect that woman and honor what she thinks. She did NOT get that by being bellicose, arguing for mysandry. She got it BECAUSE she obeys God's Word and submits to me, her husband. Isn't that ironic?!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
manpower2gryephonTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
manpower2gryephonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro dropped all of con's arguments.