The Instigator
dwmiller
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
wolfman4711
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Bible doesn't forbid Tattoos

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
dwmiller
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/2/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,058 times Debate No: 36262
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

dwmiller

Pro

The argument is, based on scripture taken in context, is that the Bible doesn't forbid the getting of tattoos.

First round is acceptance of this debate by a con position only.

Position must be based on scripture, and not just based on history of tattoos, society views, etc.
wolfman4711

Con

I accept. Leviticus chapter 19, verse 28: you shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you" case closed.
Debate Round No. 1
dwmiller

Pro

First, I want to thank wolfman4711 for accepting this debate. I look forward to the debate.

Lev. 19:28

Let me start this round by stating that con has already pointed out the ONE verse in the Bible that mentions something in reference to tattoos, or marks on the body. “Do not cut your bodies for the dead, or put tattoos on yourselves. I am the LORD.” This is the one verse he thinks makes an open and closed case.

If we stop and look at this one verse by itself, scripture seems to be very clear that tattoos are wrong, and are a sin against the LORD. However, I will now show that the ONE verse he is using, has been taken out of context from the passage.

Out of Context Rebuttal

As I have already mentioned, con has used the main verse in his argument out of context from the passage. Let’s stop and look at some of those surrounding verses.

Lev. 19:19 “Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.”

Lev. 19:26-28 “Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. Do not practice divination or seek omens. Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. Do not cut your bodies for the dead, or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.”

When the verses are taken into context, we have a problem. If we are to obey Lev 19:28, we must follow all the other verses as well. I am sure con has eaten a steak before. I am sure he has cut his hair. I am sure some of his clothes are mixed materials.

History of Lev 19:28

The LORD was talking to his people in reference to not following this common pagan practice of cutting oneself to mourn for the dead. It was very common for the pagans to make deep cuts in themselves, or engrave pictures of the dead in themselves during the period of mourning for lost ones. The LORD is reminding his people not to take part in this.

Not Under The Law

Today, because of the LORD’s death on the cross for us, we are no longer under the Old Testament Law. Romans 10:4 states “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” We no longer need to live under the Old Testament laws and practices.

So What Now?

Since we no longer live under Old Testament law, we need to look at under scripture in the Bible for guidance in this issue. We need to seek wisdom as James 1:5 informs us to do. I Cor. 10:31 states "...do all to the glory of God." I believe that a Christian tattoo of a cross with a verse can be used as an excellent witness tool. Someone that has tattoos on them is more likely to come up to me and ask about about my tattoo than they would to go up to someone in a dress suit.

Paul's Word's
Paul states in I Cor 9:22-23 "I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel."


I would urge con to put his verses in context, and not just choose a verse, and make it fit what he wishes that verse to state.

wolfman4711

Con

wolfman4711 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
dwmiller

Pro

Before I begin this third round, I would like to point out a few facts for those that will be voting on this debate. I would like to point out that con has had 48 hours to post his argument for round two, and has failed to do so within that time frame. Con did mention in the comments that he forgot to hit the submit button, and wishes to post his argument in the comment section. I am not allowing this however because 48 hours is more than enough time to post your argument correctly to this debate.

Second, while certainly not attacking con's religious beliefs, I would like to point out that con has changed his religious belief from Christian to Atheism in his profile.

Let's look at the term Atheism for a moment: Atheism "the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." http://en.wikipedia.org...

If con truly believes in Atheism, why would he care what the Bible states on this issue?

For this round, I would like to look at two more passages that are commonly used in the argument against tattoos. The first is I Cor 6:15 "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?"

I fully agree that our bodies are made in the image of Christ, and in that fact, we should take care of, and respect our body. I would like to state however that I do feel someone with tattoos is more likely to come up to me, someone with a tattoo as well, than they would go up to someone in a nice dress shirt and pants holding a Bible. I have more of a chance to be a witness.

The second verse I would like to point out is Romans 14:13 "Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this-- not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way."

Christ is the only person that can judge what is truly correct in the matter, but we must do everything in love. The verse states not to be a stumbling block to our brother. If I had a friend over to my home that is a strict vegan, I would certainly not sit there and eat a nice steak in front of them. I would go about fixing a nice vegan meal that we both can enjoy in fellowship. I would, even though I may disagree with their position, show love and respect toward my fellow brother.

I do hope that con will post his arguments, and rebuttals toward to position I have given. I am giving con 48 hours to post his arguments. I believe, at this point, if con fails to post an argument this would be a forfeit of this debate. I look forward to hearing what con as to state on this matter.
wolfman4711

Con

First I would like to apologize for forfeiting the second round..., I hope I can still have a fair chance at winning the debate, but I urge voters to give pro the point for conduct. My opponent has stated " why should u care your an atheist" we'll this is true, but it's irrelevant to the debate and I feel I don't need to answer it. REFUTING-------

Romans 14:13- well this is not the first time the bible has contradicted itself: Christians have judged certain people for thousands of years, for example Christians would find homosexuals immoral. That should be no different for people tattooed for a bible verse openly states not to have tattoos.

I don't fully understand my opponents sixth paragraph or should I say "line" of words... Some grammatical mistakes there..

"Out of context rebuttal" (being rebutted)

It's true that most Christians don't follow these rules but never the less it's agianst the rules... Christians over time have selected the verses that are acceptable to modern Standards and rejected the barbaric and inconvenient verses, to make things easier.
"The not under law" supposedly Jesus died for our sins but that does not mean that every law in the Old Testament is no longer in function. The verse isn't very clear to me and I doubt it actually translates into: "forget everything I said before".

MY ARGUMENT
We were built in gods image, so why would humans change there appearance by engraving symbols into there bodies? God reminds us that he is perfect over and over so why should we add on to his perfectness? There is no reason, the bible even states that its agianst the law, although most Christians believe we are no longer in old testement law we keep half of the values that it teaches... Further more I thing god meant that the sacrificing laws were done, but not the values and principles. For christains all still live under the influence of the commandments and certain verses.

I thank my opponent and wish him goodluck
Debate Round No. 3
dwmiller

Pro

I would like to thank con for his argument against tattoos, and his rebuttals to my position. However in round 4, I would like to show that con's argument and his rebuttals do not hold up. I will post con's position in bold to avoid any confusion in positions.

Romans 14:13- well this is not the first time the bible has contradicted itself: Christians have judged certain people for thousands of years, for example Christians would find homosexuals immoral.

What contradiction? The Bible is not contradicting itself here as con would have you to believe. In Lev 19:28, God is directly talking to Israel his people. It is God himself talking, and it is Him saying you should not do this. In Romans 14:13, Paul is writing to the Christians in Rome telling them that they should not be too quick to judge another person because it is God who is the final judge based on what is written in His word the Bible. It is two different people talking, and no contradiction exist.

As far as homosexuals, yes, Christians would find this to be strictly against God's word. We do not just base this off of Old Testament scripture however. There are verses in the New Testament as well against homosexually. I base this off of the following verses: Gen. 19:5, Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Rom. 1:26-27, I Cor. 6:9, I Tim. 1:9-10.

"The not under law" supposedly Jesus died for our sins but that does not mean that every law in the Old Testament is no longer in function. The verse isn't very clear to me and I doubt it actually translates into: "forget everything I said before".

I fully agree with con that God is not stating to just trash the Old Testament, and to forget everything. As far as the moral laws, etc that are written in the Old Testament, there are principles found in the New Testament for the New Testament Christians to live by, and to follow. The New Testament Christians, because Christ came and died for our sins, no longer have to live the Old Testament laws 100% in order to have forgiveness. Christ already gave that forgiveness when He died on the cross.

There is no reason, the bible even states that its agianst the law, although most Christians believe we are no longer in old testement law


While con was quick to point out my grammer errors, let me just point out the two spelling errors in this sentence con wrote. No one is perfect in grammer and spelling.

I would like to remind con, and the voters, to please put this verse back into the context of the passage. Cutting of oneself, and placing marks on oneself, was a very pagan practice of the time to mourn for their dead, and to remember them. It was a pagan rite of passage for the dead. The release of blood was though to please their pagan idol gods, and to be an offering to this idol god for their dead. We can also see this practice in the prophets of Baal when they cut into their arms in hopes that it would please their "god" into accepting their offering.

The Lord is clearing telling Israel, his people. not to take practice in this type of pagan behavior. Yes, people today do get satanic symbols, and pictures of their dead they loved tattooed on them, and I would never do such a symbol. But Christian symbols, and other non-satanic symbols are more of a fad today, and a way too remember special landmarks in one's life.

We were built in gods image, so why would humans change there appearance by engraving symbols into there bodies? God reminds us that he is perfect over and over so why should we add on to his perfectness?

Why would we color our hair? Why would women wear makeup? Is this not changing our appearance, and the way that God made us? Yes, our body is the Temple of the Holy Sprit, and I truely believe that we need to take care of the body that Christ has given us. I believe this verse to mean that we need to live as an example of Christ, and be a witness for Him each day. My tattoo of a cross, made with the nails that went through his hands and feet, and the crown of thrones, I do not believe is being disrespectful to God and my Savior. It helps me to remember what He did for me, and when I accepted Him into my life. I also believe it can become a witness tool as well to others.

I hope the voters we see that cons position, and his rebuttals, just don't hold up.

wolfman4711

Con

The most important note to this debate from my side this round should be fairly simple. Christanity has many customs and illogical traditions, yet no one follows these, in the modern world. Why? Simple, because Christians realize that the god from the Old Testament is a genocidal, jealous, murderous bully who teaches hatred and ludicrous customs that most people just don't feel like following. My opponent keeps stating things similar to: well If that's true why do we do this? That's because no one follows the verses that are a nuisance to there life and instead decide whitch verses to follow and whitch to discard. It's not my fault very few people actually follows every word of the bible, I'm only stating what the bible says itself not its followers.

Rebuttal.
Argument1/Romans 14:13- having a tattoo can be judged because the bible clearly states not to tattoo yourself. The only way to get out of this statement is by coming up with excuses to justify it.

Argument 2: Yes Christ gave forgiveness, so does that allow you go break all his rules? of course not. My opponent basically argues : if it's in the New Testament too keep it, if its not trash it. Keep all of gods word if u believe him to be a diety!

Argument3: it does not matter what context it was in because it still has the same meaning... "Don't have a tattoo!" Wether it's for the dead or for your own liking... Sure I don't think it would be a big deal to god, but rules a rule.

Argument4: my oponnent make a good argument here, about his cross tattoo. I think that tattoo might slide with god considering its a symbol representing christanity, but tattoos in general would not be accepted by god. For its says its forbidden.

I enjoyed the debate, may the best man win. Conduct goes to pro for forfeit
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by leojm 3 years ago
leojm
Interesting. =)
Posted by dwmiller 3 years ago
dwmiller
I will see if the system resets itself on this debate. For some reason it isn't allowing us to go to the second round. You did have 48 hours to post your argument. If the system doesn't reset, I will reopen the debate for us.
Posted by wolfman4711 3 years ago
wolfman4711
I'm sorry I wrote my argument but forgot to press post! Dwmiller I ask if u would maybe allow my second debate argument to be posted in the comment section? Thank you and good bye
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by GOP 3 years ago
GOP
dwmillerwolfman4711Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Chapule 3 years ago
Chapule
dwmillerwolfman4711Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: This was pretty even. The only thing I can offer is conduct to pro for FF