The Instigator
WonkaLove
Pro (for)
Tied
4 Points
The Contender
EffieTrinket
Con (against)
Tied
4 Points

The Bible is More Likely to be a Purely Human Book than a Divinely Inspired One

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/17/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,234 times Debate No: 32576
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (2)

 

WonkaLove

Pro

Motion:
The Bible is More Likely to be a Purely Human Book than a Divinely Inspired One

Definitions:

More Likely: I assert that the reasons to think that the Bible was written purely by humans are better than the reasons to think it was divinely inspired. I will no more attempt the fools errand of proving that it is impossible for the Bible to be divinely inspired than I would try to prove that God doesn't exist, or that invisible unicorns don't exist, or that flying spaghetti monsters don't exist.

The functional implications of this assertion upon us as individuals will not be a topic I intend to address, at least not in this debate. I will save discussion regarding whether or not it makes sense to take the book seriously in our daily lives for a follow-up.

Bible: I will allow Greek and Hebrew texts to be included in the set "Bible", but hold that the KVJ is a reflection of those books, and so for its ubiquity we will use it for this discussion. Only books which have been already discovered and/or translated are included in this set, however. I will not entertain that there are some hypothetical or missing books of the Bible.

God: I refer directly to the personal God of Abraham that is described in the Bible, the Alpha and the Omega, creator of the heavens and Earth, one who can hear and answer prayers, perform miracles, actively involves himself in human affairs, and so on.

Divinely Inspired: though it was penned by men, all scripture is the unquestionable and unassailable word of God and carries His authority.

Format:

Round 1) Definitions, Format, and Acceptance
Round 2) Opening Arguments
Round 3) Rebuttals
Round 4) Closing Statements

No new arguments can be introduced in the closing statements, only previouisly stated arguments can be referenced and summarized.
EffieTrinket

Con

I will argue against you statement, and give reasons that the Bible is divinely inspired. Anything among the "more likely" category is technically an opinion. I look forward to this debate, and just to warn you, I may not do so well, as I've been here for such a short amount of time.
Debate Round No. 1
WonkaLove

Pro


I’d like to start by thanking my opponent for accepting this challenge, and thanking our readers for taking an interest. I wish EffieTrinket well, and will be looking forward very much to a lively debate.


I have on many occasions found Christians to be highly defensive when their world view is challenged. It could have something to do with my style of communication, but I really don’t think so. Believers in general just seem to get mad a lot, just check these dudes out, for example: https://www.youtube.com...


Yikes! They’re only infidels, what’s the big deal?! Well anyway, my intention is not to deliberately offend you. I’d rather help you see how wrong it is to place blind faith above reason, and attempt to do so in an amusing way. I realize that probably nothing I have at my disposal will be able to, over the course of a mere 24,000 words, break through the lifetime of conditioning that some of you may have experienced. And yet, if against all odds, something I say manages to crack through your carefully reinforced shell of belief, and the light of realization shines through fault lines of doubt, don’t be afraid. Whatever comfort you may derive from basking in the false hopes and self-importance taught to you by Christians, there is also considerable comfort to be found living in a world that makes sense. So, let us begin.


Because I Said So


The first reason to believe the Bible is inspired of God is because it tells us it is. For many Christians, the truth of the Bible is taken as a given. The grass is green, the sky is blue, God gave us the Bible. Period. Christians can point, and many do, to 2Corinthians 3:16, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” Now for those who were born yesterday, I understand how this is sufficient. But I’d like to think that you, dear reader, are not so gullible as to believe a book is inspired of God merely because it tells you it is. If that kind of circular logic were good enough, then boy have I got a book for you. I’ll even sell it for the low price of $79.99. Here’s a preview, 1st Wonka 1:1 states: “Everything is right and true in all of this book, and has authority above all others, because I said it is right and true, and I am God.” Hopefully you’ll agree with me that any extraordinary claim (even one coming from me) had better have extraordinary evidence to back it up. That brings us directly to the next point.


Do Take Me for Some Conjurer of Cheap Tricks!


While some find the miracle stories to be sublime, and believe it is clear proof of the Bible’s authenticity as the word of God, we still can’t help but notice the problem of circular logic remains. The book is telling you these things happened, and ultimately you are taking the book’s word for it. In some cases it can be corroborated by historians that a certain place existed, but that doesn’t mean the events described there actually took place. For example, Kansas is a real place, but that doesn’t prove that the events of the Wizard of Oz actually really happened. (http://www.debunkingskeptics.com...).


But let us, for arguments sake, even suppose that these miracles did happen. Jesus, that imaginative carpenter with a bag of full of cheap tricks, really did turn water into wine, chase pigs over a cliff, and feed the masses? Great. But please tell me there’s something here which isn’t eclipsed by Chris Angel and food stamps! A virgin giving birth you say? Nope, I’m calling BS on that one, Mary. And Jesus coming back from the dead? Seriously? Am I the only one who has seen the 2006 movie The Prestige? It’s good. Rent it. Bottom line, even if “miracles” did wow the iron age crowds, that doesn’t really do any more work to advance the divine origins of Jesus the Amazing than it would do for the Incredible Burt Wonderstone.


Prophesy


But what about the revelations which seem to predict the future? That would seem to be pretty convincing. But interestingly, the predictions which I’m guessing my opponent will point to were only actually successful in telling us events that have already happened. I didn’t come up with the story below, but I like it:


“While traveling through a forest, a person noticed a circle marked on a tree with an arrow shot perfectly into the center. A few yards away he noticed several more targets, each with arrows in the center. Later, he met the talented archer and he asked him, "How did you become such an expert that you always get your arrows into the center of the bull's-eye?" "It's not difficult," responded the archer, "First I shoot the arrow and then I draw the circle."


Rather than make too many prophesies of my own about what my opponent will use to reinforce his case for Biblical inspiration, I will rest here for the time being and let him make his case. After all, a book that makes great claims demands great evidence, and so really my opponent has all his work yet ahead of him. That’s in Wonka chapter 2.


EffieTrinket

Con

EffieTrinket forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
WonkaLove

Pro

WonkaLove forfeited this round.
EffieTrinket

Con

EffieTrinket forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
WonkaLove

Pro

WonkaLove forfeited this round.
EffieTrinket

Con

EffieTrinket forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Chase200mph 3 years ago
Chase200mph
So there is a Superman and he isn't fictional because kryptonite exists....got it.
Posted by The_argueonator 3 years ago
The_argueonator
it is a human made book but a non fictional one at that
Posted by Chase200mph 3 years ago
Chase200mph
Anything among the "more likely" category is technically an opinion. Since the bible is little more second, third, forth and fifth hand hearsay....isn't it all just technically an opinion?
Posted by effimero89 3 years ago
effimero89
ohhh ok I understand
Posted by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
I will allow Greek and Hebrew texts to be included in the set "Bible", but hold that the KVJ is a reflection of those books, and so for its ubiquity we will use it for this discussion.

I don't understand this, to me it seems to be a contradiction.
Posted by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
Human........Obviously.
Posted by WonkaLove 3 years ago
WonkaLove
Thanks for the observation, tvellaott, my wording might need some tweaking.

effimero89, that's actually not the case. My argument allows for the possibility that there could be a god, but he did not write the Bible.
Posted by effimero89 3 years ago
effimero89
Someone proving or, at least arguing, that the bible is divinely inspired by god is equal to the argument of god himself...

I'm assuming you don't believe in the bible is any way shape or form so it just resolves to if you believe in god or not..
Posted by tvellalott 3 years ago
tvellalott
Can I argue that the Bible, nor any other book is a human, therefore your resolution is demonstrably false?
Posted by WonkaLove 3 years ago
WonkaLove
I've changed the wording. If it is to your liking, then I look forward to what I know will be an exciting debate. Good luck to you, sir.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Vulpes_Inculta 3 years ago
Vulpes_Inculta
WonkaLoveEffieTrinketTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gave an argument. Con didn't answer.
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
WonkaLoveEffieTrinketTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro/instigator had BOP, but did nothing at all to support the resolution. All he did was attack strawmen arguments that could be made to argue against the resolution, but did nothing to actually support it.