The Instigator
GMDebater
Pro (for)
Winning
27 Points
The Contender
Brainmaster
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Bible is NOT the Word of God

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
GMDebater
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,561 times Debate No: 16963
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

GMDebater

Pro

==Introduction==

Hello, it is GMDebater, this is my first debate so forgive me if I mess up or have a lousy opening argument.

==Objective==

Pro will argue that the Bible is NOT the Word of God because it has contradictons, inaccuracies, and absuridies. Con will argue that the Bible is the word of God.

==Structure==

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Opening arguments (con may start rebutting)
Round 3: 1st rebuttals
ound 4: 2nd rebuttals
Round 5: 3rd rebuttals and closing arguments.

==Rules==

Must cite work if you recieved it from someone else.
Must follow the structure
A forfeit will result in losing the entire debate
Definitions=/=Arguments
All arguments MUST be in the debate, coments=/=arguments
NO video arguments allowed.

That's all I can think of. I now turn it over to con.
Brainmaster

Con

Thanks. I'll wait for opening arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
GMDebater

Pro

Is the Bible God’s Word?

Opening Syllogism

1. God is omniscient.
2. Jesus is not omniscient.
3. Therefore, Jesus cannot be God.

Defense of Premises 1

Omniscient, according to carm.org’s Dictionary of Theology means the following:

An attribute of God alone. It is the quality of having all knowledge (Isaiah 40:14). God knows all things possible as well as actual. He does not need to experience something to know about it completely. Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omniscience represent the nature of God concerning His relation to the creation. (1)

Therefore, because of Isaiah 40:14, God has to be omniscient.

Defense of premises 2

This is where my burden of proof lies. I need to show that Jesus is not omniscient and lacks the attribute of God of having all-knowledge.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. –Mark 13:32 (2)

Here, we see that Jesus was ignorant of the fact that he did not know when he would return. If you read the entire chapter of Mark 13, we see that it is referring to the tribulation period and the rapture.

Jesus does not know when the rapture will take place. Therefore, he cannot posses all knowledge.

CONTRADICTION!!!!

This verse is also contradicted by the following:

Of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. –Colossians 2:2-3

Lord, thou knowest all things. –John 21:17

Now are we sure that thou knowest all things. –John 16:30

Not only is this evidence that Jesus does not know everything, it also shows that there is an un-reconcilable contradiction in the Bible. Does Jesus know everything? That all depends on what verse you look at!

Contradiction of Jesus’ Birth

1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying…-Matthew 2:1 NASB

http://www.biblegateway.com...

The verse makes it very clear that Jesus was born in Bethlehem when Herod was king. We must understand when Herod was king.

King Herod was king from 30 BCE to 4 BCE. We know from Matthew it has to be at least two years prior to 4 BCE so we can put the date of birth around 6 BCE. (3)

However, we see in Luke that it was when Quirinius was governor of Syria.

This was the first census taken while [b]Quirinius was governor of Syria. Luke 2:2

http://www.biblegateway.com...

We know from this verse that Quirinius was governor and it was his first census.

Where is a problem? Quirinius became governor a decade after Herod’s reign.(4) Therefore, Jesus could NOT have been born both in the days of King Herod and in the 1st census. Furthermore, I would like to see one secular source that shows the nation-wide census where everyone went back to his hometown.

Furthermore, if Jesus was born in Bethlehem, what was the purpose of the trip if not the taxes?

Oh, and in case you are wondering, Cyrenius=Quirinius. (5)

The Angel’s Message

In Matthew, an angel appears to Joseph to tell him about the miraculous birth. In Luke, the angel goes to Mary. This is not where the uncertainty comes into play. Take a look at this passage.

Then the multitude came together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.” Mark 3:20-21 NKJV (6)

Now, be honest with me, do you really think that if the angel did appear to Jesus’ parents that they would say that he was crazy? No.

The Prophecies

The gospels often cite imaginary prophecies and take them out of context.

Source

1. http://carm.org...;
2.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
3.
^ Peter Richardson, Herod: King of the Jews and friend of the Romans, (Continuum International Publishing Group, 1999) pp. xv–xx.
4.
Encyclopedia of theology: a concise Sacramentum mundi by Karl Rahner 2004 ISBN 0860120066 page 731
5.
http://www.wikipedia.org...
6. http://www.biblegateway.com...

Brainmaster

Con

The Bible Is The Word Of God
The Bible is a Divine Revelation. In the Bible we find out what God wants mankind to know about Himself and His plan.

The Bible is the only written revelation of God to man.

No one has ever successfully refuted the Bible. Many mock the Bible but avoid challenging it point by point. No one who has done in-depth research, honestly examining the evidence for the Bible's inspiration and truthfulness, has been able to disprove the Bible.

History records many who set out to disprove the Bible, who instead became believers.

One Mind Behind The Bible
Our Bible is composed of 66 books, by about 40 different writers of various backgrounds, living during a period of about 1,600 years -- yet they present one message. Such a miracle can only be explained by there being one divine Author, who was in control of all these human writers.

The Bible writers came from many walks of life, including kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, herdsmen, poets, statesmen, scholars, soldiers, priests, prophets, a tax collector, a tentmaking rabbi, and a Gentile doctor.

The Bible was written in three different languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

The writings contained in the Bible belong to a great variety of literary types including history, law, poetry, educational discourses, parables, biography, personal correspondence, and prophecy.

Books written by men have no unity of thought on even one subject. Some of them invariably disagree with others. But there is perfect unity between the books of the Bible -- which speak of hundreds of subjects in many fields. There is no contradiction among them.

Who but God could produce such a book?

Supernatural Origin
Some of the Bible writers recorded their own sins which brought them into disgrace. Many times their lives and worldly interests were imperiled because of what they wrote. Human nature causes people to do the opposite.

The writers claim a supernatural origin for their writings. Nearly 4,000 times expressions like "Thus says the Lord," "The word of the Lord came unto me," etc., are recorded in the Bible.

If the Bible is not God's Word, then the Bible is full of lies. Could a book so filled with lies cause millions of people to turn from their sins -- including lying?

Witness Of Fulfilled Prophecies
Hundreds of prophecies of future events were recorded in the Bible -- some of them centuries before fulfillment -- and not one detail of any of them has ever failed!

No other "religious book" foretells the future.

No one can refute the Bible's accurate prediction of future events with facts. All they can do is try to get you to ignore these marvelous facts.

Could man -- especially dozens of men, writing in different countries and different times -- foretell the future so accurately? Never! Only God could do such a tremendous thing.

No one but God could reveal the future in such detail, often hundreds of years before the events occurred. Not only the future of cities, nations, and the world, but also concerning the future birth, ministry, death, and resurrection of Christ.

Prophecies Concerning Christ
The Old Testament, written over a 1,000 year period, contains several hundred references to the coming Messiah -- all of which were fulfilled exactly in Jesus Christ.

The chance that all these predictions could come true exactly as written is beyond most human's comprehension, giving to any honest enquirer undeniable proof that God inspired the writing of the prophecies in the Bible.

1 PETER 1:11 NKJ
11 . . . He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

LUKE 24:44 NKJ
44 . . . all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

JOHN 5:39,46 NKJ
39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.

The story of Jesus Christ is also woven into the Old Testament through types, symbols, and ceremonies. All the Bible points to Jesus Christ.

The biography of the patriarchs, the construction of the tabernacle and the temple, the services, the sacrifices, and the ceremonies, as well as other types and shadows -- all foreshadow Jesus Christ.

Witness Of Jesus
Any honest person who studies the historical evidence will conclude that Jesus Christ rose from death -- giving Him unique status. Jesus acknowledged the Old Testament, which was all of the Bible written at that time, as the Word of God.

MATTHEW 5:18 NKJ
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

The Bible bears the seal of Jesus' authority. He quoted the Old Testament dozens of times and referred to it as the Word of God.

For example, in Matthew 22:32, Jesus quotes from Exodus 3:6 and 15.

MATTHEW 22:29,31-32 NKJ
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
31 "But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying,
32 `I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Witness Of Bible Working For People
Millions have acted on the Bible's commands and have testified to receiving its promises. Probably someone living near you has such a testimony.

That the Bible message works for people -- in all places and all times -- is a proof that the same One who created us, and all things, is the Author of the Bible. Only the manufacturer knows what to write in the product handbook to make his product function properly.

Witness Of Changed Lives
Millions of individuals, as well as nations, have been changed for the better when they have accepted the Bible as the Word of God.

More people on Earth today believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible as the Word of God than any other creed or philosophy.

These millions of people have proved the claims of the Bible when its conditions were met.

Wherever the Bible is accepted people are lifted up to a higher plane of life.

The Bible message has changed the vilest sinners into the most loving saints. No other message ever has done that.

Individuals, and even whole societies, have been transformed wherever the Bible has been believed and obeyed. The Bible's fruits have always been good and wholesome. Neglect of the Bible has always meant sin, suffering, and sorrow.

Witness of Archeology
The Bible is historically correct. No one has ever proved otherwise.

The more we learn of history, the more the Bible is validated.

Hundreds of statements in the Bible, which in times past have been held untrue by enemies of the Bible, have recently been proven true by archaeologists. The more that archaeologists find from the past, the more the Bible is proven accurate historically.

No archaeological discovery has ever disproved a biblical reference. The Bible is trustworthy and historically reliable.

Bible Is Scientifically Correct
Some scientists would not agree that the Bible is correct -- but none can prove the Bible wrong. And there are many, many scientists who acknowledge that the Bible is scientifically correct.

Man has taken many centuries to discover many things the Bible stated thousands of years ago. Where did the writers of the Bible get their information -- if not from God?

Never Out-Of-Date
Although written hundreds of years ago, the Bible remains the most up-to-date book available today.

Books on every subject have to be replaced because they become out-of-date so quickly. But the Bible has never had to be revised.

(Only translations of the Bible from the original languages have been revised to reflect current language usage.)

PSALM 89:34 NKJ
34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lip
Debate Round No. 2
GMDebater

Pro

I thank my opponent for his quick reply. Unfortunately, my opponent did not prove or back up ANYTHING.

My opponent first contends that the Bible is the Word of God and is the only revelation. This is the purpose of the debate.

I would like to see some sources that say that no-one successfully refuted the Bible. Many books have been written that disprove the Bible and expose it for what it really is. I feel that most Christians just brush it off and ignore the evidence.

One Mind Behind The Bible
Our Bible is composed of 66 books, by about 40 different writers of various backgrounds, living during a period of about 1,600 years -- yet they present one message. Such a miracle can only be explained by there being one divine Author, who was in control of all these human writers.

The Bible is composed of 66 books. I will not agree that they present one message. That is the purpsoe of the debate.

Supernatural Origin
Some of the Bible writers recorded their own sins which brought them into disgrace. Many times their lives and worldly interests were imperiled because of what they wrote. Human nature causes people to do the opposite.

Extrodinary claims means extrodinary evidence. I'd like to see sources for the latter part of your argument.

The writers claim a supernatural origin for their writings. Nearly 4,000 times expressions like "Thus says the Lord," "The word of the Lord came unto me," etc., are recorded in the Bible.

And this proves what?

If the Bible is not God's Word, then the Bible is full of lies. Could a book so filled with lies cause millions of people to turn from their sins -- including lying?

If the Koran is not the Word of God, then the Koran is full of lies. Could a book filled with lies cause millions of people to turn from their sins--including lying?

Witness Of Fulfilled Prophecies
Hundreds of prophecies of future events were recorded in the Bible -- some of them centuries before fulfillment -- and not one detail of any of them has ever failed!

Again my opponent has not backed up any of his claims. In order for it to be a true prophecy, a prophecy has to meet many standard requirements.
  • The prophecy must be clear, and it must contain sufficient detail to make its fulfillment by a wide variety of possible events unlikely.

  • The event that can fulfill the prophecy must be unusual or unique.

  • The prophecy must be known to have been made before the event that is supposed to be its fulfillment.

  • The event foretold must not be of the sort that could be the result of an educated guess.

  • The event that fulfills the prophecy cannot be staged, or the relevant circumstances manipulated, by those aware of the prophecy in such a way as to intentionally cause the prophecy to be fulfilled."
Many "Prophecies" of the Bible are not clear. Furthermore, many of the "Fulfilled" prophecies are imaginary, misquoted, taken out of context.

No other "religious book" foretells the future.

Oh really?

"Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing" (Koran 41:21)
Could this be a prophecy of fingerprinting or DNA?

"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)

Pollution?

"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)
Genetic engineering?

"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." (81:6)
Zoos?

Source: http://www.alislam.org...

The point of all that is to show that prophecies can be very vague and seem to be fulfilled. Also, I made a point that other religious books have fortold the future.

Prophecies Concerning Christ
The Old Testament, written over a 1,000 year period, contains several hundred references to the coming Messiah -- all of which were fulfilled exactly in Jesus Christ.

There are many prophecies Jesus did NOT fulfill. Many other prophecies are imaginary, unfulfilled, and taken out of context.

Witness Of Changed Lives
Millions of individuals, as well as nations, have been changed for the better when they have accepted the Bible as the Word of God.

And this proves?

Bible Is Scientifically Correct

I'd like to see examples. Furthermore, there are MANY inaccuracies in Science.

Never Out-Of-Date

Haha! Science has to change some of their theories when we learn more about their theories. Furthermore, I contend that the Bible is LONG out-dated.

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Yup, the Bible is very up to date!

My opponent also makes the incridible claim that there are more Christians than any other religion! False. There are no sources to back him up. I have a source called the Almanac that clearly shows Islam is now the top religion. Furthermore, what do numbers prove?!

To be honest, I am more interested in hearing the rebuttals from the first round than this round.

Back to you, con.

Brainmaster

Con

I forfeit.
Debate Round No. 3
GMDebater

Pro

Arguments extended. Please vote pro
Debate Round No. 4
GMDebater

Pro

I thank my opponent for this debate. Again, please vote pro.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by MilitantAtheist 5 years ago
MilitantAtheist
Nice victory, pro! too bad I can't vote
Posted by Brainmaster 5 years ago
Brainmaster
Vote forfeiter
Posted by GMDebater 5 years ago
GMDebater
"Vote con"
After you forfeit, do yu really think they will vote cin?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
GMDebaterBrainmasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeits
Vote Placed by SkepticsAskHere 5 years ago
SkepticsAskHere
GMDebaterBrainmasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Intentional forfeits
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
GMDebaterBrainmasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Copy/paste and then forfeit, and a much more clear presentation from GM. Not much more could be done here to achieve a flawless victory.
Vote Placed by innomen 5 years ago
innomen
GMDebaterBrainmasterTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious forfeit