The Instigator
bigdebate
Con (against)
The Contender
NightSpeaks
Pro (for)

The Bible is against women's rights

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Debate Round Forfeited
NightSpeaks has forfeited round #2.
Our system has not yet updated this debate. Please check back in a few minutes for more options.
Time Remaining
00days00hours00minutes00seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/27/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 457 times Debate No: 104669
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

bigdebate

Con

Pro shall argue that the Bible is against women's rights. I shall argue that the Bible is pro women's rights

Definitions

By engaging in this debate, all participants concede that all defintions of words shall be taken only from the internet domain of this website: https://www.merriam-webster.com...;
EXCEPT in reference to the laws of logic or other logic and argumentation. For all inquiries, information, and definitions of logic this internet domain shall be used: http://www.manyworldsoflogic.com...

In the debate portion, when citing words that are being defined, one shall list the definition reference number so everyone knows which definition is being used for the word in question.

Rules of engagement

There shall be no insults and attacks to person unless they are logically justified, and that logical justification must be provided.

Argumentation

The Laws of Logic fully apply to this debate. As does all forms logic mentioned in the domain given for all logic inquiries and definitions of logic.

Description of first round:

This first round is acceptance of the terms of the debate. The remaining rounds shall consist of the debate itself, once both parties agree to the aforementioned rules, those rules shall govern the entire debate and then all participants can proceed to the debate itself.



I agree to these rules.
NightSpeaks

Pro

I have fully read the instructions and I agree to this debate. Let's start...
Debate Round No. 1
bigdebate

Con

The first thing I shall do is use Merriam Webster to shoe the definition of women's rights:

1. legal, political, and social rights for women equal to those of men

_____________________________________


I would like to begin my argument by stating that the Bible is as balanced between men and women in the confines of marriage as is possible. In the Epistles of Paul and Peter, some very key commands arise regarding proper treatment of one's spouse.

Ephesians 5:21-33
Firstly, Paul advocates that a woman must submit to the husband as the church submits to Christ. Now, I must preface that this is often a statement used, out of context, to prove that the Bible says that women are inferior to men. This is simply not the case. Paul is merely saying that the husband is the head of the house. The husband must be submitted to as God is submitted to by the church.

However, in this passage states even more qualifications. However, these are qualifications for how the man must treat his wife. Paul makes it very clear that a man is to love his wife as Christ loves the church. Now, Jesus was willing to die the most painful of deaths for the forgiveness and reconciliation of the church, along with the potential forgiveness of the entire world. In addition, Jesus never beat his apostles, ran a dictatorship, or treated his apostles with disrespect. In fact, the only people Jesus ever treated violently were those who defaced the temple and were the greatest hypocrites of their day. Now, Christ loves the church with a caring, nourishing love, which Paul echoes in this passage.

In addition, Paul continues to say that a man is to treat a women with the same cherishing and nurturing of his own body. But this is meant in a positive connotation. People live to gorge their bodies with many pleasures and most people do not rip their bodies to shreds or intentionally cause serious harm to their bodies. Paul is basically commanding men to treat women the way they would treat their own bodies. This is not only fair, but is also very generous to the wife.

Paul also states in this passage that a husband is to work tirelessly to make sure his wife is a morally upright person. This includes nourishing her with the word and helping her become a noble Christian. In other words, a husband is supposed to help his wife become a better person.

So, at this point, we see that a woman must submit, but a husband must work around the clock to love, help, and nourish his wife. Oh, and Paul's definition of love is found in 1 Corinthians 13: "Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." When Paul speaks of love, THAT is the kind of love he is talking about. Hardly anyone could say that that is unfair to women.


1 Corinthians 7:1-16
This is a much less quoted section about marriage that was written by Paul. In this section, Paul says that a man and a woman should only have sex with each other, and that both the woman and the man are obligated to fulfil their physical obligations to each other. However, a very important passage of Scripture is present in this passage. Paul actually teaches that a man does not own his body. Yes, you read that correctly. A man's body is owned by his wife. However, a woman's body is owned by her husband. Now, the context of this shows that a woman or a man has no right to withhold sex from the opposite party, since their own bodies are not their own, but rather belong to their spouse. This is a perfectly balanced approach toward sexual relations in marriage. The only caveat is of both parties agree to withhold sex from each other for a specified time to devote themselves to prayer. However, as stated, it must be mutual and only for a specific amount of time.

Another balanced command from the Bible comes from this passage of Scripture as well. A woman may never separate from their husband, BUT a husband cannot divorce his wife. This is perfectly fair. The wife is never allowed to leave, and the husband is never allowed to ask for a divorce. Nothing against women's rights here.


Colossians 3:18-19
In this short passage, Paul is commanding wives to submit to their husbands, but Paul is also commanding husbands NOT to be harsh with them and to love them (again, this is the same love as referenced earlier from 1 Corinthians 13).


So, to summarize: a wife must submit to her husband and have sex with him, but a husband must love his wife, nourish his wife, work to make her a morally upright and godly person, and treat her the way he would treat his own body, and have sex with her. Neither sex is allowed to leave. UNLESS in cases of infidelity. A man can divorce his wife if she cheats on him (Matthew 19:9).


Proverbs 31
In this passage, the Bible tells men how the perfect woman must act. In this passage, we see that a woman makes clothing, buys food, is a businesswoman, and takes good care of the matters at home. However, I would like to point out specifically that a noble woman, according to Proverbs, is a hardworking businesswoman. This means that the Bible is ok with women being in the business world as long as they also take care of home affairs. The justification for this is reasonable because the man is out of the house the majority of the day working very hard to provide money. If both parents neglected the home, who would take care of the children and such? But yeah, a career woman is actually one of the qualifications for a noble woman according to the Bible.

_____________________________________


Many people argue that the bible explicitly forbids women to be in places of leadership. However, this is actually not true. The only place a woman is forbidden to be in a position of leadership is in a church setting.

1 Timothy 2-3
In this passage, Paul commands women to dress modestly and discreetly and not to wear expensive jewellery in church. In addition, Paul says that a woman is allowed to teach other women, but is not allowed to teach or be in a position of authority over a man in church. In the following chapter, Paul goes over the commands for elders, who are to be men.


Titus 2
This is another passage that is taken out of context to purport that the Bible is demeaning to women. In this passage, Paul says that a woman is to be a worker at home. However, remember that the reasoning behind this is because the husband is not around due to his being away at a job. So, since the Bible commands men to work, and work is at a totally different location, it makes sense that the woman should ensure the home is upkept. However, we must not forget about Proverbs 31 in the process. A woman is still allowed to have a career AND be a homemaker, so to speak.

Now, this passage is also important for another reason. It shows that a woman IS actually allowed to teach. Older women are commanded to teach younger women how to be morally upright and good homemakers, among other things. So women are allowed to teach women, just not men.

So, to summarize, in church affairs, a man is to be in all positions of leadership, but older woman are also to teach younger women. A woman must dress modestly.

_____________________________________


In positions of leadership outside of the church, however, there are numerous cases in the Old Testament where women were promoted to places of prominence in Israel.

Judges 4-5
This is the passage of the Bible that tells the story of Deborah, a woman judge that God raised up to free the Israelites from their captors and be in charge of Israel's government. That's right. God promoted a woman to the head of government in Israel and used a woman to free Israel from their captors. This woman orders Barak (yes, a women told a man what to do, and she was the one receiving these commands from God) and tells him to gather the troops and whom to march against and where. Then Barak executes the orders. In addition, Deborah is also a judge in the sense of a judge in a courtroom. She would hear cases and dispense punishments. So, in this passage alone, we see that God rose a woman to power who was a judge and head commander of armed forces (though she did not lead them into battle herself, she gave instructions from God to a man who led them into battle).

There are other examples of women in positions of governmental leadership in the Bible, but Deborah is the best example.

_____________________________________


Summary:
Using these passages, I believe it is clear that the Bible supports the idea of many rights for a woman. The right to be in positions of leadership outside of the church, the right for a woman to have sex with her husband, the fact that a man is to treat his wife in the most noble standard of love and nourishment found anywhere in exchange for mere submission (but the Bible makes it clear that a man cannot just order his wife around like a slave and must instead do quite to opposite. In addition, the Bible commands men not to treat women harshly), the right to a career, and the right to any of the protections from the laws and commandments that are not labeled as sex specific.

I would say that the Bible is definitely pro women's rights.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 2
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bigdebate 2 months ago
bigdebate
How long does it take to update a debate? It's been a couple days now... I am worried about this website. It's been having more and more errors and problems since I was on it about 4 years ago.
Posted by bigdebate 2 months ago
bigdebate
You misunderstand. The wife can also make the husband have sex with her. Secondly, the Bible teaches that a woman and a man must both agree to sex, since the man does not own his body, but the woman owns his body. A man cannot rape someone with a body that they do not own... So, by these terms, sex must be mutually agreed upon.
Posted by Bitch_Goddess 2 months ago
Bitch_Goddess
Making it so a woman MUST have sex with her spouse because he is in control of her body certainly is against the woman's right to choose what happens to her body. If she does not want sex, she is in no way obligated to give that to her husband. It's like saying if a rapist were to rape her, they would have to get married (per what the Bible says, Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and he could rape her as much as he'd like. And of course, she would have no say because she cannot refuse him sex.
Just because she gets some benefits (such as the man not treating her "bitterly", if you could even consider this a 'benefit') does not mean that it's still not taking away the woman's rights.
Posted by bigdebate 2 months ago
bigdebate
A man of real intelligence attacks the arguments, not the person.
Posted by backwardseden 2 months ago
backwardseden
*yawn* didn't read it. You have nothing intelligent to say. I am far too educated and know far more about your god, religion and bible than you ---ever--- will. Gosh, does that hurt and sting that I will not bite into your pathetic loser conversation because I am too good for you? Well goodie for me. Too bad that you hate to lose and that you have no genuine friends or loved ones.
Posted by bigdebate 2 months ago
bigdebate
BTW, I'm still waiting for your response in our contradictions debate... Or is it hard to respond when I've basically shown you that your own logic is fallacious?
Posted by bigdebate 2 months ago
bigdebate
I wish I was debating you so that I could tell you what contextual cues you're missing :)
Posted by backwardseden 2 months ago
backwardseden
2 Samuel 12:11-14 "11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. 14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." from thevilbible.com "This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. (ED) And then he kills a child! SICK!!!

https://www.youtube.com... - Rape is god's will?

Tracie Harris "If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That"s the difference between me and your god. He watches and shuts the door and you go ahead and you rape that child and when your"re done I"m gonna punish you. If I did that people would think I"m a freakin" monster."

Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$eth. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really put a high value on a rapists free will."
Posted by backwardseden 2 months ago
backwardseden
* Numbers 31: 15-18 "15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
* Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."
* Exodus 21:7-11 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. 8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

Didn't think things through did yah? Lastly..
Posted by backwardseden 2 months ago
backwardseden
Judges 10-16 con't 21-23 (all 23 verses won't fit within 2,000 characters) And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. 11 And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. 12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan. 13 And the whole congregation sent some to speak to the children of Benjamin that were in the rock Rimmon, and to call peaceably unto them. 14 And Benjamin came again at that time; and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not. 15 And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the Lord had made a breach in the tribes of Israel. 16 Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?
con't
"21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
22 And it shall be, when their fathers or their brethren come unto us to complain, that we will say unto them, Be favourable unto them for our sakes: because we reserved not to each man his wife in the war: for ye did not give unto them at this time, that ye should be guilty. 23 And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them."
This debate has 4 more rounds before the voting begins. If you want to receive email updates for this debate, click the Add to My Favorites link at the top of the page.