The Instigator
JustCallMeTarzan
Pro (for)
Winning
61 Points
The Contender
DiablosChaosBroker
Con (against)
Losing
56 Points

The Bible is an Inconsistent Document

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/19/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,529 times Debate No: 6286
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (48)
Votes (18)

 

JustCallMeTarzan

Pro

The proposition on offer is that the Bible is an inconsistent document, historically, scientifically, and logically (with itself) and is thus useless for discovery of truth.
*******************

Historic Inconsistency

GE 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
FACT - There is no evidence to support this.

Gen 7:19 Higher and higher above the earth rose the waters, until all the highest mountains everywhere were submerged,
FACT - This never occurred, although there is evidence that the Middle East flooded at one point in time.

2 Sam 24:9 "Joab then reported to the king the number of people registered: in Israel, eight hundred thousand men fit for military service; in Judah, five hundred thousand."
1 Chr 21:5 "Joab reported the result of the census to David: of men capable of wielding a sword, there were in all Israel one million one hundred thousand, and in Judah four hundred and seventy thousand."

Scientific Inconsistency

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
FACT - The ark was far too small to hold all the animals, and two of each does not constitute a viable genetic population.

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
FACT - Hares and rabbits do not chew their cud.

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
FACT - Serpents do not eat dirt.

GE 1:29 God also said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
FACT - This would include several poisonous plants such as hemlock & nightshade.

Gen 7:6 Noah was six hundred years old when the flood waters came upon the earth.
FACT - Humans rarely live past 100, and none have ever lived to 600.

Logical Inconsistency

ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

**************************

Obviously the text is inconsistent. An inconsistent text can have no truth value on the subjects that it is inconsistent about. While portions of the Bible may have actual truth value concerning various aspects of science & history, much of the document is simply and blatantly incorrect. The internal inconsistency of the Bible simply adds to it's lack of truth value overall.

I submit that this document is inconsistent, has no truth value on certain subjects, and little truth value for anything else beyond religious matters. Even on religious matters, internal inconsistency renders the document suspect at best.
DiablosChaosBroker

Con

I thank for the opportunity for my opponent to challenge me and for creating this debate focusing on the inconsistency of the Bible.

>>>Historic Inconsistency<<<

GE 6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Just because there is no evidence of giants necessarily mean that it is false. It is an argument from ignorance to assume it is false only because it has not been proven true. However, the Neanderthal remains are very likely the remains of Nephilim, which are the giants in context. (1) No contradiction or error here.

Gen 7:19 Higher and higher above the earth rose the waters, until all the highest mountains everywhere were submerged.

First of all, the Genesis Flood was local, not global. In addition, the Hebrew word har really refers most often to hills rather than mountains. Since no specific mountain range is mentioned in this verse, it is likely that the word refers to the hills that Noah could see. (2) So in essence, the verse is interpreted that the waters rose upward until all the highest hills in the land of Mesopotamia was submerged. No contradiction or error here.

2 Sam 24:9 "Joab then reported to the king the number of people registered: in Israel, eight hundred thousand men fit for military service; in Judah, five hundred thousand."

Note: 800,000 valiant swordsmen from Israel. 500,000 men from Judah.

1 Char 21:5 "Joab reported the result of the census to David: of men capable of wielding a sword, there were in all Israel one million one hundred thousand, and in Judah four hundred and seventy thousand."

Note: 1,100,000 all Israelite swordsmen. 470,000 swordsmen from Judah.

There were 1,100,000 Israelite swordsmen (800,000 swordsmen while the remaining 300,000 are reserves). There were 500,000 men from Judah (470,000 of which are swordsmen and 30,000 reserves). (3) There is no contradiction or error here.

>>>Scientific Inconsistency<<<

GEN 7:2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8: Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of everything that creepeth upon the earth
GEN 7:9: There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

Noah's Ark was taller than a 3-story building and had a deck area the size of 36 lawn tennis courts. (4) The Ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. (5) If the flood was local and size of the flood was restricted to entire land of Mesopotamia, most likely only contained certain species of birds and mammals that lived within the reach of the Flood's devastation and were important to Noah's short-term survival. Through the reproduction of a limited number of individuals, genetic information is recombined and genes and/or gene function is lost. (6) No contradiction or error here.

LEV 11:6: And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

The Bible does say that rabbits chew the cud. Rabbits don't regurgitate their food, but they do eat it a second time. That process is called coprophagy. (7) Rabbits send its food through the intestines, and then produce soft fecal pellets at night that it eats. It has been called pseudo-rumination similar to the process of ruminants. (8) No contradiction or error here.

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.

The Bible describes that this "snake" was none other than Satan, (9) who, being an angel, took on the form of an animal. This event is clearly a description of a supernatural, rather than a naturalistic event. The expression (eat dust) is a graphic figure of speech indicating its humiliating judgment and fall. There is no contradiction or error here. (10)

GE 1:29 God also said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of life that let them lived eternally. They were not immortal, but they did ate from the tree of life until the Fall of Man, which later Adam lived to 930 years old and died. No contradiction or error here.

Gen 7:6 Noah was six hundred years old when the flood waters came upon the earth.

Before the Flood, patriarchs lived longer because they consisted of the original perfect, or close to perfect, gene.
As generations passed, our genes became more susceptible to disease and decay and each generation of offspring would inherit additionally bad genes because of the fact they are passed on by both parents. And so the more generations that passed, the diseases and deformities would have therefore multiplied. (11) In fact, experts say that humans can live to 1,000 years. (12)

>>>Logical Inconsistency<<<

ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

Acts 1:18 describes what occurred after Judas hanged himself in Matthew 27:5. His body began to decay as it hung from the rope. Eventually, his corpse fell, and "burst asunder" when it hit the ground—he literally burst apart. (13)
No contradiction or error here.

None of the writers declares, "THIS IS THE LAST THING JESUS SAID!" Consider a possible chronology:
1 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
2. Some that are nearby bring a sponge with vinegar in it to him.
3. Then when Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished."
4. Then he bowed his head and said "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit" with a loud voice.
5. After the cry of the loud voice, he yielded up his spirit. (14)

There is no contradiction.

Sources:
1. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
2. http://www.godandscience.org...
3. http://www.thebereans.net...
4. http://www.creationtips.com...
5. This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. (Genesis 6:15)
6. http://www.godandscience.org...
7. http://www.godandscience.org...
8. http://www.msstate.edu...
9. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, (Revelation 20:2)
10. http://www.biblestudymanuals.net...
11. http://www.creationapologetics.org...
12. http://www.dailygalaxy.com...
13. http://www.thercg.org...
14. http://www.lookinguntojesus.net...
Debate Round No. 1
JustCallMeTarzan

Pro

I'll respond quickly and concisely...

GE 6:4 (Giants) - Neanderthals were shorter than humans (1). The contradiction remains.

Gen 7:19 (Flood) - Was there something you didn't understand about "everywhere" ?? On top of that, Genesis 7:21-23 states that "ALL flesh died that moved upon the earth... All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And EVERY living substance was destroyed."' Oh - and what about the Giants? Noah didn't take any on the Ark, and somehow they survived the flood. The contradiction remains, even with a local flood.

2 Sam 24:9 (Soldiers) - My opponent pretends that somehow "fit for military service" and "capable of wielding a sword" mean two different things. The texts are clearly referring to the same action - Joab reporting on the military strength of the nation. And yet different numbers are reported for the same action. The contradiction remains.

Gen 7:2,8,9 (Ark) - Regardless of the size of the ark (if the flood was indeed "local" as purported), there still remains an inconsistency between 7:2 and 7:9 - Noah was told to take them by sevens in 7:2 but only two of each board in 7:9. Ok... maybe Noah disobeyed God. But wait - there's more... in Gen 6:18, God supposedly says "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female." Is he to take them by twos or by sevens? And on top of that, two animals is not a viable population (2) unless somehow they managed to avoid all the health and physical problems common to inbreeding. It's possible seven animals would be a viable population, but in any event, there's still the contradiction between 6:18 and 7:2. The contradiction remains.

LEV 11:6 (Hares) - Hares and rabbits do not chew cud, as my opponent has pointed out. He has conceded this point ("The Bible does say that rabbits chew the cud. Rabbits don't regurgitate their food, but they do eat it a second time."). Regurgitation and coprophagy are NOT the same thing. The contradiction remains.

GEN 3:14 (Serpents) - An interesting account. However, even if THAT serpent was Satan, serpents must have existed before for them to have names (Adam named them) and for Satan to inhabit one. Also, the verse refers to the "seed" of the serpent and of Eve. Thus, the descendants of the serpent (more serpents) will eat dust, and none do. The contradiction remains.

GE 1:29 (Plants) - What are you talking about? Hemlock and Nightshade are seed-bearing plants and are NOT food. Adam's age has no bearing on this. The contradiction remains.

Gen 7:6 (Noah's Age) - Your "sources" on this are nonscientific. The first (your 11) is simply someone guessing in the dark at wild possibilities and using the Bible itself as the only reference!! And your response is copy pasted from that babble. His other source (number 12) lists no scientific references and is simply a report on some ideological scientists talking about mere possibilities. Human life expectancy is a little over 66 years (3). The contradiction remains.

Acts 1:18 & Mat 27:5-7 (Judas' Death) - The verses here state six different things:

1. The chief priests bought the field.
2. Judas bought the field in question.
3. Judas bought a field.
4. Judas threw down his money in the temple
5. Judas hanged himself.
6. Judas fell down and burst asunder.

Regardless of the specifics of Judas' death, there is still inconsistency in both who owned the field AND what Judas did with his money. It is not possible for all these statements to be true in any sort of reading. It's weakly possible that 5 & 6 are both true IF the body split open when it fell from the tree. But the first four cannot all be true. The contradiction remains.

Mat 27:46, Luk 13:46, Joh 19:30 (Jesus' Death) - Regardless of my opponent's possible chronology, which is largely copy-pasted from his source, the three writers present three different sayings as being Jesus' last words. Clearly they cannot all be correct in this presentation. Furthermore, Mat 27:34 has Jesus being offered Vinegar and Gall. Mark 15:23 states that it was wine and myrrh. Luke 23:36 states that it was vinegar. And Mark 15:23 ALSO says that he didn't drink what he was offered. Clearly there are several contradictions in this same story, the story of JESUS' DEATH - one of the most important stories in the entire Bible. You'd think that they would get that correct. The contradictions remain.

**************************

My opponent has debunked nothing at all, copy-pasting his arguments from different texts. With only minor research, I have shown that all of his points are invalid, as well as showed further problems with the same events. I await my opponent's rebuttal.

Please write your own arguments instead of using other people's.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org...
DiablosChaosBroker

Con

>>>Counterarguments<<<

1. GE 6:4 (Giants)

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is an argument from ignorance to assume that since there is no evidence, there were no giants. Perhaps Neanderthals were no giants in the Bible, but the Meganthropus are better candidates. These people are estimated between 7 to 12 feet tall according to their fossils. (1)

Gen 7:19 (Flood)

It was a local flood. If this is a proper interpretation of the Psalm, the global flood interpretation must be false or else this verse must be false. (2) The Hebrew word kol erets indicates a local area of land, instead of our entire planet. The whole "earth" was just the entire land of Mesopotamia because people did not spread until Genesis 11:8 (3)
The "whole earth" refers to people, not geography. Nephilim does not describe a race of peoples, but rather to the people that were giants. The Nephilim that were described after the flood are not related to those pre-flood people, since they were all destroyed in the flood.

2 Sam 24:9 (Soldiers)

There were 800,000 valiant swordsmen from Israel and there were 1,100,000 all Israelite swordsmen. The remaining 300,000 are reserves. The reserves are not registered because they were not fit for military service but they were capable of wielding a sword.

Gen 7:2, 8, 9 (Ark)

The two different Hebrew words nephesh and basar are used to describe the animals taken aboard the ark. The word basar refers to certain birds and mammals that interact with humans and the word nephesh refers to "soulish" creatures that can relate to humans. Therefore the Ark contained only certain species of birds and mammals that lived within the reach of the Flood's devastation and were important to Noah's short-term survival. (4)

Island rapid speciation occurs when there is
* small populations
* isolation
* open niches
* low predation
* low competition

There may be a genetic loss in the very first generation born on the island due to sampling errors of genetic recombination. However, the more successful offspring there are in each generation, the smaller the genetic loss due to sampling error would result. Through the process of loosing genetic variability, that group becomes a new species. It may ultimately survive or it may not survive at all. (5)

LEV 11:6 (Hares)

The phase 'chew the cud' is actually ‘bring up the cud' because ‘alah refers to ‘bring up'. (6) Rabbit do bring up their pellets of partially digested food, which they chew on.

GEN 3:14 (Serpents)

Seed of the woman refers to Jesus Christ while seed of the serpent refers to the devil and all his children. (7)

However, if my opponent insists that the Bible says snakes do eat dust, I'll accept it. Snakes have the "Jacobson's organ" in the roof of its mouth that helps the snake smell. The snake picks up bits of dust and pulls them into its mouth with its tongue. A pair of sensory organs takes over once the dust is inside the mount and the snake is able to smell the trail for possible prey. (8)

GE 1:29 (Plants)

Fruits are food, even if they are poisonous. If that poison did not affect you, hemlock and nightshade could still be considered food, even if it can potentially kill you. Were poisonous fruits such as hemlock and nightshade in the Garden of Eden? In other words, are there poisonous fruits near the Persian Gulf and did they exist 200,000 years ago?

Gen 7:6 (Noah's Age)

Perhaps there is no scientific evidence that humans have lived longer in the past. However, it is an argument from ignorance again to assume that humans cannot live longer in the past, because the evidence has not been found yet. Perhaps the local flood destroyed most humans and their fossils cannot form due to climate environmental conditions. Perhaps the changes in the earth's ecosystem caused by the flood forced humanity to adapt to the harsh conditions after the flood and the human life spans gradually decreased as the result of classic-evolution. (9)

Acts 1:18 & Mat 27:5-7 (Judas' Death)

Let's see what happened:
Mat 27:5-7
1. Judas cast down the pieces of silver in the temple to buy a field.
2. Judas departed, and went and hanged himself.
Acts 1:18
3. This man has purchased a field with the reward of iniquity.
4. Falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

No contradiction here.

None of the writers declares, "THIS IS THE LAST THING JESUS SAID!" (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

There is no reason why each writer has to record every occurrence and every word spoken by Jesus. If such were the case, we would have four gospel accounts identical in every respect.

Mark 15:23 was referring to wine BEFORE the crucifixion of Christ. This is easily spotted if you read Mark 15:23-28. (10)

Consider a possible chronology: (You didn't find any error in this chronology, did you?)
1 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
2. Some that are nearby bring a sponge with vinegar in it to him.
3. Then when Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished."
4. Then he bowed his head and said "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit" with a loud voice.
5. After the cry of the loud voice, he yielded up his spirit.

No contradiction or error here.

**************************

Argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. My opponent states that I used my arguments from different sources. That does not invalidates scripture and the "Biblical contradictions" my opponents have used were not original either. I rather use sources to support my claims then to create new arguments which I have no evidence for.

Sources:
1. http://www.s8int.com...
2. when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. (Proverbs 8:29)
3. So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city. (Genesis 11:8)
4. http://www.godandscience.org...
5. http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com...
6. http://www.answersingenesis.org...
7. http://www.mountainretreatorg.net...
8. http://www.answersingenesis.org...
9. http://www.nwcreation.net...
10. http://www.biblegateway.com...;
Debate Round No. 2
JustCallMeTarzan

Pro

1. GE 6:4 (Giants)

You are correct about absence of evidence. However, the fact that there are no remains of these individuals at all suggests that either they did not exist, or their remains have been systematically destroyed. It's far more likely that they did not exist. Meganthropus are a terrible candidate - they inhabited Java, an island in Southeast Asia, and on top of that, they weren't even a derivation of homo sapien (1), and thus, would not have looked like humans or had civilizations like are purported in Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, and Samuel. On top of that, Numbers 13:33 states that "we were in our own sight as grasshopper" and the Meganthropus were only about 8 feet tall. The fact remains that the Bible purports there to be Giants without evidence for them at all. The contradiction remains.

2. Gen 7:19 (Flood)

My opponent uses the Bible as evidence for why a global interpretation of the flood must be false, which is clearly circular reasoning. However, I shall indulge him and consider the flood to be local, because this is a decent assumption anyway. If the Nephilm are not related to pre-flood people, how did a race of Giants begin in that region? Spontaneously? On top of that, no flood would have killed every living thing even on the mountains, or the "fowl of the heavens" (7:23). Furthermore, "fifteen cubits" (7:20) is nowhere enough water to cover mountains - the Jewish cubit was only about 17 inches (2). The contradiction remains.

3. 2 Sam 24:9 (Soldiers)

My opponent now pretends that reserve soldiers are somehow not fit for military service, even though they are already serving in a reserve capacity. The contradiction remains.

4. Gen 7:2, 8, 9 (Ark)

In another copy-pasted argument, my opponent goes further and further from what God has ordered Noah to take. Genesis 7 has passages where God mandates Noah take clean beasts, unclean beasts, fowl, and beasts that "creepeth" into the ark. Actually, "nephesh" means "the complete life of a being" (3) and the word "basar" means flesh or body. So these say nothing about what kind of animal God ordered Noah to take. Thus, there is still a problem of fitting these animals onto the ark. And as for genetic viability... again - ONLY TWO is not a viable population. If my opponent can demonstrate that God really meant seven instead of two, even though he said both, and that Noah took seven, his point on speciation MIGHT be valid. However, also consider that all the humans on the ark were related to one another. Thus, there was not a viable HUMAN population because none of them would have dared commit the sin of incest, which is biblically punishable by death. The contradictions remain.

5. LEV 11:6 (Hares)

Copraphagy is NOT regurgitation. Rabbits and hares do NOT bring up their food to eat again - they poop it out. The contradiction remains.

6. GEN 3:14 (Serpents)

Seed of the woman refers to humans writ large... But in any event, while serpents may get some dirt in their mouth, they do not EAT dirt, which is what Genesis states. The contradiction remains.

7. GE 1:29 (Plants)

Poisonous plants cannot be food. Food is "any nourishing substance that is eaten, drunk, or otherwise taken into the body to sustain life, provide energy, promote growth, etc." (5). And actually, Conium, which is poisonous hemlock, is native to the Mediterranean region (6). Also, Nightshade is native to Western Asia (7). However, this is beside the point, as God told man that he could eat all these things, which is clearly false. The contradiction remains.

8. Gen 7:6 (Noah's Age)

My opponent makes a terribly weak argument concerning human life expectancy, especially considering that scientists have evidence concerning life expectancy all the way back to the Paleolithic era - 10,000 BC and further back, when man first started using stone tools (8). There IS evidence for the life expectancy of humans during this time - my opponent apparently neglected to read it last round. The contradiction remains.

9. Acts 1:18 & Mat 27:5-7 (Judas' Death)

Are you kidding? Did you read Acts 1 ?? Verse 16 states: "Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before CONCERNING JUDAS, which was guide to them that took Jesus." Then it goes on to state that Judas was with them and purchased a field with the reward of his iniquity. Of course this is a contradiction!!!

10. Mat 27:46, Luk 23:46, Joh 19:30 (Jesus' Death)

While nobody explicitly states that these are Jesus' last words, the story moves immediately to his death, suggesting that he neither said nor did anything significant between these statements and his death. Jesus' drink while at Golgotha is reputed to be three different things in three different gospels. The only thing they have in common is that Jesus was offered a drink. There's even contradiction about whether or not he actually DRANK it! Now about this chronology...

"1 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
2. Some that are nearby bring a sponge with vinegar in it to him.
3. Then when Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished."
4. Then he bowed his head and said "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit" with a loud voice.
5. After the cry of the loud voice, he yielded up his spirit."

1. Ok.
2. Ok, though what was on the sponge is a contradiction too.
3. "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." - NOT that he said "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit."
4. In Luke's account (where he says this) he hasn't been given anything to drink yet.
5. Ok.

So we have a problem compiling all the stories. Was he given a drink or not? What was he given to drink? Did he actually drink it? What were his last words? All four of these are presented in the various gospels. Consider:

1. Jesus is given something to drink (Mark, Matthew, John).
2. Jesus is not given something to drink (Luke).
3. Jesus is given wine and myrrh (Mark).
4. Jesus is given vinegar (John).
5. Jesus is given vinegar and gall (Matthew).
6. Jesus drinks on the cross (John).
7. Jesus refuses to drink (Mark).
8. Jesus' last words are "It is finished" (John).
9. Jesus' last words are "My God, why have you forsaken me" and a loud cry (Mark, Matthew).
10. Jesus' last words are "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit" (Luke).

All of these cannot possibly be true. Clearly these cannot all be correct. The contradictions remain.

*******************

While the lack of evidence for giants may introduce an argument from ignorance, there are abundant contradictions my opponent has yet to refute, so the resolution is still perfectly sound. There need only be one contradiction to satisfy the resolution. He also attacks my arguments in desperation, stating that they are "created," have "no evidence," and that they are "not original." Of course they're not original - they're quotes!! I ask the reader if one needs any special evidence to consider whether or not these are contradictions. Obviously the answer is that common sense shows these are contradictions.

Again, please construct your own arguments instead of copy-pasting text from websites.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org...
4. http://www.htmlbible.com...
5. http://dictionary.reference.com...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...
7. http://en.wikipedia.org...
8. http://en.wikipedia.org...
DiablosChaosBroker

Con

>>>Counterarguments<<<

1. GE 6:4 (Giants)
Fossils are a rare occurrence. It is highly unlikely that any organism will leave behind a fossil even under the rare conditions which fossilization takes place. (1) It is more likely that the fossils of the giants did not form or is still undiscovered. There are large amounts of giants bone discoveries taking place which are listed here. (2) A good picture consisting of a fossil of a bone can be found here. (3) There is no contradiction because there is evidence of these giants.

2. Gen 7:19 (Flood)
The Nephilim were not a race, because then it would contradict the rest of Scripture. The Bible never described the Nephilim as being descended from anybody. The Hebrew word nephal means "fall upon" or "overthrow," referring to their warlike nature. (4) The Hebrew word "har" can refer to "mountains" or "hills". Since no specific mountain range is mentioned in this verse, it is likely that the word refers to the hills that the flood covered. The Bible is saying that the flood was 15 cubits (20 feet) deep, in total. 20 feet is sufficient enough to cover hills, not mountains. So it is possible that a flood that is 20 feet deep could cover the hills. (5) No contradiction or error here.

3. 2 Sam 24:9 (Soldiers)
Joab did not register the other 300,000 men because they were reserves. It is possible to wield a sword but not be fit for military service, isn't it? I can be capable of lifting a sword, even if I'm terribly injured, right? I can be fit for military service, but not be able to lift a sword, right? The reserves are less powerful than the valiant swordsmen. There are more possible solutions that can be found here. (6)

4. Gen 7:2, 8, 9 (Ark)
Actually, the Hebrew word nephesh does refers to "soulish" creatures that can relate to humans according to your source. The word basar refers more specifically to those birds and mammals that have had contact with man. (7)
After bringing two of every kind of mammals and birds, God instructed Noah to take with him every clean animal by sevens and every unclean animal by twos. He also instructed Noah to take the birds of the sky by sevens. (8) I already told you that Noah didn't take every animal in the world since it was a local flood. I already told you the size of the Ark so Noah didn't have a problem with fitting all the animals that were indigenous to the land of Mesopotamia wasn't that hard. Noah's children may or may have not committed incest just like the children of Adam and Eve. It wasn't forbidden until Moses' time and once the gene pool was narrowed by the flood of Noah's day, human genetics began to suffer much more noticeably, and by Abraham's day, people only lived a couple centuries.

5. LEV 11:6 (Hares)
The Hebrew word 'alah is question is NOT specific to the process of regurgitation; it is a phrase of general movement.
The verse would be a contradiction if and only if the word meant regurgitation. The mistake made here is applying the scientific terms of rumination to something that does not require it. (9)

6. GEN 3:14 (Serpents)
The curse of the serpent does not necessarily apply to all snakes, but probably just to the snake called Satan. The expression (eat dust) is a graphic figure of speech indicating its humiliating judgment and fall. The serpent in question was never in plural since the curse was directed at Satan. It's common knowledge that snakes dart their forked tongue out rapidly, and repeatedly. They are eating dust but not dirt. The curse never said dirt, but dust. (10) No contradiction or error here.

7. GE 1:29 (Plants)
My opponent did not answer the question "were poisonous fruits (not plants) exist 200,000 years ago near the Persian Gulf?" Perhaps by eating the tree of life, Adam and Eve were immune to poison contained in those fruits assuming that they existed 200,000 years ago near the Persian Gulf. No contradiction or error here.

8. Gen 7:6 (Noah's Age)
Although scientist do have evidence concerning life expectancy to the Paleolithic era - 10,000 BC, my opponent stops there. DNA evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago. (11) There is a period of about 188,000 years that scientists did not find evidence for. It is possible that the early modern humans did live for centuries 200,000 years ago and after many years, interbreeding caused human genetics began to suffer much more noticeably once the gene pool was narrowed by the flood of Noah's day and by Abraham's day, people only lived a couple centuries. No contradiction or error here.

9. Acts 1:18 & Mat 27:5-7 (Judas' Death)
What??? Acts 1:18 happened after Mat 27:5-7. It is not that hard to understand. Acts 1:15-16 states IN THOSE DAYS (indicating the past) Peter stood up among the believers and said "Brothers, the Scripture had (past tense) to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke LONG AGO (past tense) through the mouth of David CONCERNING (past tense)
Judas..." (12) It is not difficult to understand that events concerning Judas's body destruction were recorded in Acts after Judas hanged himself. (Recorded in Matthew) No contradiction or error here.

10. Mat 27:46, Luke 23:46, John 19:30 (Jesus' Death)
For what reason is it necessary for each writer to record every occurrence and every word spoken by the Lord? If such were the case, we would have four gospel accounts identical in every respect. Each writer recorded according to what he saw and heard.

Let's review ALL the verses necessary:
We shall start with Matthew 27:46, 48, and 50:
46: About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
48: Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink.
50: And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

Then we'll attack Luke 23:36 and 46:
36: And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar.
46: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Finally we'll review John 19:28-30:
28: Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29: A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips.
30: When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

First we see that Matthew recorded "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me" from Jesus in a loud voice. Then all three writers record that Jesus drank the vinegar. Then John recorded that Jesus said, "It is finished" after he finished the drink. Then John wrote that with that, he bowed his head. Then Luke records that Jesus again with the loud voice said," Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." Then all three writers record that Jesus yielded his spirit, which Mark and Luke says that it happened after his loud voice. No contradiction or error here.

Sources:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://www.returnofthenephilim.com...
3. http://www.returnofthenephilim.com...
4. http://www.godandscience.org...
5. http://www.godandscience.org...
6. http://www.apologeticspress.org...
7. http://www.reasons.org...
8. http://www.godandscience.org...
9. http://www.tektonics.org...
10. ‘And the Lord God said unto the serpent… "upon your belly you shall go, and shall eat dust all the days of your life". (Genesis 3:14)
11. http://en.wikipedia.org...
12. http://www.biblegateway.com...
Debate Round No. 3
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by jason_hendirx 8 years ago
jason_hendirx
>If you take away time from evolution little would change. Evolution is a myth in its self. Anything can come of it. Through time all is possible, even a flying house. Who knows. Do you?

Huh? Evolution took place over billions of years. Animals are the product of well-understood chemical processes. How does any of this match a flying house?
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Then why do you say the Bible is mythical when evolution holds the key to all creatures. To seas to exist.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
If Pegasus has attributes that were beneficial to survival, it probably would have evolved by now... but who knows - it may yet evolve.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
house, house i mean horse# Pardon me.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
If you take away time from evolution little would change. Evolution is a myth in its self. Anything can come of it. Through time all is possible, even a flying house. Who knows. Do you?
Posted by jason_hendirx 8 years ago
jason_hendirx
>Or Flying Spaghetti Monster...

I was trying to be nice.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
>> "If you replace the word "God" with "Fairy King Oberon", very little would change."

Or Flying Spaghetti Monster...
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Read my latest debate. Your understand that fairlt tales are expressed creatures which have once or still exist.
Posted by jason_hendirx 8 years ago
jason_hendirx
If you replace the word "God" with "Fairy King Oberon", very little would change.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
Fairy Tale
–noun
1. a story, usually for children, about elves, hobgoblins, dragons, fairies, or other magical creatures.
2. an incredible or misleading statement, account, or belief: His story of being a millionaire is just a fairy tale.

The bible qualifies under both definitions.
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