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The Contender
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The Bible is immoral

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/24/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 688 times Debate No: 63846
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)




Not just the Bible, but the god depicted by the Bible.

-God kills 70k people because David ordered a census (1 Chronicles 21)
-God orders the destruction of 60 cities just so the Israelites can live there. Also, he orders the killing of all men, women, and children of each city. (Deuteronomy 1)
-God orders the murder of all the people of the Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls. God instructed the men to choose which virgin girl they liked, forcibly rape her, and make her his wife. (Judges 21)
-God orders the murder of all who worship a different god while in their own church. (2 Kings 10:18-27)
-God allows slavery, even selling your daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40), and killing babies (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9)

I'm sure a "well that's the old testament" argument will pop up, so I'll refer back to Luke 16:17 : It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.
-"Do not think I have come to abolish the law or the prophets"-the words of Jesus (Matthew 5:17)
-All scripture is inspired by god (2 Timothy 3:16)

I'll bring up more of these if need be

Now for the immoralities of the New Testament:
-Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned with unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:10)
-People are eternally damned based on solely what they believe, and not their actions (John 3:18)
-God will not forgive until something is killed for him in a bloody manner (Hebrews 9:13)

I'll gladly add much more if the morality of the New Testament is argued, but I don't want to waste my time in case it's not. One of the biggest problems about the New Testament for me is the abuse of women's rights. If you take this debate, I'm assuming you'll know what I mean. If you don't, I'll gladly post multiple verses to explain.


I (Con) will claim the Bible is Moral.

What is Moral? Does one learn about morality in any government controlled educational system (aka public schools)? If they did, one will learn about morality in a science class. Morality is an outgrowth of life's Unalienable Rights, which is an outgrowth of the Constructal Law, which is an outgrowth of the Laws of Thermodynamics.

To simplify, Thermodynamics deals with the direction and flow of energy. For example, flow moves from high to low temperatures, flow moves from high to low pressures, the flow from high to low resistance for electrons; throughout nature, symmetries are found in: the flow from high to low elevation for water, the flow of life taking a path from high to low resistance in the pursuit of food, etc.

The Constructal Law studies this flow relative to resistance and the patterns created by such flow, where the Law states: Given freedom, for a finite-sized flow system to persist in time (to live), its configuration must evolve in such a way that provides easier access to the currents that flow through it.

The following video short, covers the Constructal Law:

In summary, the Constructal Law governs evolution in physics, biology, technology, and social organizations. This Law explains how everything that moves---whether animate or inanimate---naturally evolve in ways that facilitate such movement in the study of flow dynamics. Flow analysis, is the study of motion and currents relative to resistance.

Flow at the biological level, is a manifestation of life's primitive working function or bio-program which maintains, once alive, “Life” must have the freedom (“Liberty”) of flow or movement, in “the pursuit (energy to overcome resistance) of ” survival; otherwise, there is no life. Since we have life, survival is a form of positive-feedback the mechanism of adaptation, procreation, a prerequisite of “Happiness” for us humans, etc. Hence, Thomas Jefferson's celebrated polished version of this bio-program, which he labeled Unalienable Rights of “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”

Life's Unalienable Rights is a dynamic interface with nature or a bio-program, where all “Life” has a craving to sustain, improve and prolong itself, with the desire to increase freedom (“Liberty”), while decreasing the energy (taking the path of least resistance) in “the pursuit of” an objective, and in the process, exploring new levels of positive-feedback (“Happiness” for us humans). This bio-program is the foundation for the “Natural Selection” process; the machinery of evolution for life, social systems, technologies, free-markets, etc.

The mutual interaction of Unalienable Rights give rise to a moral order and is found throughout many species. For example, the subtle nonverbal communication between a parent and infant is miraculous, and it flows through life's Unalienable Rights in harmonious inter-species symmetry. This symmetry is apparent when we hear the cries from the screeching chirps within a nest, to the whimpering pups in a den, to the cries of a human infant along with the feelings those sounds evoke; the sounds throughout the tree of life. In many species, a newborn cries instinctively, elevating its cry to a scream when something is wrong---such as hunger triggered by the genetically programmed need to pursue food. Among humans, the parent is instinctively annoyed or alarmed by this cry and, in distress, tries to seek mutual Happiness by catering to the infant's desires. In contrast, there is something quite pleasant about the sight of a smiling infant, as it naturally invites the sharing of Happiness. The behavioral difference between a smile and a cry are the tenets of right and wrong, the primitives of Morality.

The Absolute Values of morality is Right (moral, positive-feedback, “Happiness”) or Wrong (immoral, negative-feedback, unhappiness). The objective of morality is doing Right keeping a group alive. That is, when two or more humans form a group, the group becomes alive. The life of the group is sustained through goodwill and kindness leads to a mutual moral respect for embracing the Unalienable Rights (“Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness”) of the members within the group. Goodwill is a Conservative force that promotes order, stability, and harmony through the pursuit of group-wide positive-feedback. Over time, group-wide positive-feedback is the genesis of traditions, social values, beliefs, language, etc., the norms of society. These norms are tried and tested, and conservatively pass down from one generation to the next establishing its culture. A moral order guides an individual in the prudent exercise of judgment relative to those norms, going with the social flow minimizing civil resistance (Constructal Law). The individual in a civil society strives, albeit imperfectly, to be virtuous; that is, restrained, ethical, and honorable, respecting and embracing the Unalienable Rights of others relative to those tested norms.

The empirical evidence of the diversity of language, beliefs, and social norms throughout history demonstrates the universal absolute moral thread that runs through the tapestry of humanity in the evolution of civil societies. In addition, mutual positive-feedback, in group creation, is found throughout the spectrum of life in the beneficial formation in schools of fish, flocks of birds, packs of wolves, tribes of humans, etc. Also, such positive-feedback in group formation is found in inter-species relationships, such as those between humans and their pets. Therefore, all groups are governed by morality; otherwise, immorality becomes the group's demise.

This is stuff you don't learn in a government controlled school. Now that we are morally educated, let's turn to the Bible or any other written scriptures about the gods.

For those of faith, including preachers, prophets and atheists, should be careful when studying man's written scripture about God. We must remember man is fallible, and those who study or write such scriptures may misinterpret of what God wants; therefore, God gets—and, in some cases, God help us all (“72 virgins” upon a suicide-killing of infidels).

Those man written scriptures, are the seeds of social norms. The machinery of social evolution maintains a convoluted relationship with such scriptures as a function of philosophical interpretation generating norms, passed down through the generations. Those norms are the result from social positive-feedback throughout the flow of Unalienable Rights stemmed from morality to please the gods, in the evolution of belief systems found in all societies. By the way, not one society, throughout recorded history was found to be atheistic.

Therefore, the Bible is an account of man's historical moral evolution, therefore, the Bible is a moral document. Why would the prophets immorally lie?

On the other hand, since those of faith believe that God created the universe and everything in it, includes the Laws of Nature. Therefore, the Laws of Nature is the handwriting of God and the scientific method is a way to read God's handwriting. When man morally follows God's handwriting hence; the evolutionary fruits of technology, food production, and medicine, the stables of human existence throughout the world today. A compelling example of what happens when our Unalienable Rights, are free to morally flow having minimal resistance (Constructal Law), within the awesome machinery of God's nature.
Debate Round No. 1


goldenface15 forfeited this round.


Waiting for Pro"s response.
Debate Round No. 2


goldenface15 forfeited this round.


It appears Pro is having problems with according to his comment. Pro had no problems with the debate titled, “Sexual orientation is not a choice.” Therefore, his problem is not a learning curve issue.

In any event, the voter should take Pro's claim into consideration. That would be the moral thing to do (James 1:21).
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by goldenface15 3 years ago
I posted my second argument, I have no idea why it said I forfeited. I'll post another one sometime soon.
Posted by mightbenihilism 3 years ago
Yes, the Bible is indeed immortal.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Tweka 3 years ago
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Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture