The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
3 Points

The Bible is not absolute and the Bible is not final.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 631 times Debate No: 63123
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)




The Pro position, (mine) is that the Bible has never been absolute or final. Parts of the Bible may or may not be inspired, (that is up to the reader to decide). Most of what passes for an absolute is pure superstition. We do not have to fear the Bible. We can do anything we want with it. It is nothing more than paper and ink or even less than paper. It certainly cannot stand the test of time and has proven to be mostly hyperbole, especially the Old Testament part.

This debate is in four sections as follows-
1 Acceptance and opening
2 The Law of Moses and the Prophets
3 The New Testament
4 Summation


John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God."

John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

Colossians 1:17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

Colossians 1:19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Colossians 2:10 "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"

That sounds like the Word of God / Jesus is pretty absolute to me! If you believe that is!

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

And well; that seems pretty final to me as well!

It really does not have to be very hard if you just believe scripture and not man!!
Debate Round No. 1


(Pro reserves the right to rebut Con's opening in argument 3)

A. The Old Testament is not absolute and it is not final:

1. The Law of Moses

a. The Law of Moses was forced to make allowances for divorce. But originally divorce was not included in the Mosaic system.
The Law of Moses was adjustable on the issue of divorce
b. The Law of Moses included animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice is now against the law.
The Law of Moses is an illegal body

2. The Prophets

a. Once the prophecy is fulfilled it loses its value. In the eternal state prophecy is meaningless.
b. Prophecy is only given because of the separation of God and Man. Once the breach is repaired then God and Man are on speaking terms face to face.
c. Whenever Mankind repents the prophecy is automatically nullified.


The scriptures clearly say "till all be fulfilled", not one or two but ALL!

Matt 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

It also clearly says that the law is a "shadow of good things to come", legality is therefore irrelevant!

Heb 10:1-4 "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."

When someone says that it shall stand for ever, that is a finality!

Isa 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
Debate Round No. 2


Con says that 'legality is therefore irrelevant'. But before we delve into irrelevancy we should address Con's opening-

Con, sorry but you are in the wrong debate. This debate is about the Bible. Jesus of Nazareth is not the Bible. Well have you said that Christ is the alpha and the omega. But the debate is about whether or not the Bible is the alpha and the omega. And I am saying that the Bible is not the first Word. And I am saying that the Bible is not the last Word. The 'First' and the 'Last' are reserved for Christ alone. If we make the Bible the first and the last then that is idol worship. The Bible cannot be absolute and final because the only absolute and final is God. The Bible is not God. Jesus of Nazareth is the Word that became flesh. He is absolute and final.

Now let's take a look at Con's 'irrelevancy' statement-

When the Law of Moses was written it was for all intents and purposes the Bible. There may have been other written material, the book of Job for instance and maybe some other writings but basically the writings of Moses was/is the centerpiece to the Old Testament.

If there is one thing that is relevant in our lives it is the fact that we are going to die. Nothing could be more relevant. And the Law and the Prophets says that the soul that sinneth shall die, (Ezekiel 18:20). Now is the Ezekiel statement-

"The soul that sinneth shall die" the truth or is it a lie?

It seems so simple. Everyone sins and everyone dies. So on the surface the Ezekiel statement "The soul that sinneth shall die" looks like it is the truth. But what does the Ezekiel statement imply?

The Ezekiel statement implies that the soul that does not sin will not die.

But we know that this is a lie because Jesus of Nazareth knew no sin. Jesus of Nazareth never sinned in any way. And yet Jesus of Nazareth died. Worse yet, Jesus of Nazareth was murdered. Worse yet, Jesus of Nazareth was murdered by the very Law of Moses.


I think that Pro has a disconnect from excepting that the scriptures are very clear as to WHO the bible is. The scriptures clearly teach that the Word of God is indeed Jesus. The entirety of scriptures are witness to this fact. It says;

John 5:39 "" Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

1John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

We are in fact told in the scriptures that it is the testimony that we are to worship for the testimony (Word) is God.

Rev 19:10 "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

And as was previously noted, the scriptures say;

John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God."

There is a simplicity in Christ that many have a hard time coming to terms with,

2Cor 11:3-4 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Take note that Pro has stated that Jesus is in fact final and absolute.
And you should note that the scriptures clearly say that Jesus is the Word.
Yes, the Word was indeed made flesh, and the scriptures say that all things are a parable.

Mark 4:11-12 "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

What Pro must first establish when dealing with law is where the law begins and ends according to scripture. The Word Genesis 1:1 thru Revelations 22:21is a law according to scriptures. The scriptures say (a law is something that cannot change):

Rev 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

And going to the old testament you will see that the Word is in fact synonymous with the Word.

Isaiah 1:10 " Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

Isaiah 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Debate Round No. 3


The Bible is not a 'WHO' as Con is implying. The Bible is an inanimate object. Only superstition would say that the Bible is a person. Christianity says that there is a Trinity-

Holy Spirit

The Second Person of the Holy Trinity was the Word made Flesh. The Bible is not Jesus just like the Bread of Communion here on Earth is not the actual flesh of Christ. It is not what the Roman Catholics say-

And the Bible is not what some Protestants, (and others) say that it is. The Bible is a compilations of books that are bound for the fire.

The destination of God's Word is our hearts. The destination of the Bible is the fire.

(Fire = Hell)


Pro would have you believe, and only after he has deliberately changed the scripture, that these are words and ideas from me. When contrary to what the world teaches, these are in fact God's Words, not mine!

He (pro) says:
Holy Spirit"

However, scripture say's:
1John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

It is the testimony of the scriptures (what the scriptures teach), that it is indeed the testimony of Jesus that is God.
As was shown in previous quotes of scripture.

Rev 19:10 "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

God, according to scripture is the testimony of Jesus.
These are the words of the bible not mine!

Pro says:
The Second Person of the Holy Trinity was the Word made Flesh. The Bible is not Jesus just like the Bread of Communion here on Earth is not the actual flesh of Christ. It is not what the Roman Catholics say-

Con (me) agrees, it is not as the catholics teach, nor like their idea of the bread being the transubstantiated body.

According to scripture, His words are indeed spirit though!

John 6:63-64 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

The bible says what it says, it is in fact final and absolute just as Pro has conceded concerning Jesus Christ. We as Christians are called to believe, and nothing less. Faith is the proof of this.

Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by amigodana 3 years ago
2 Timothy 2:14 "Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

2 Timothy 2:16 "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."
Posted by Neoman 3 years ago
@con you seem to know too much. answer to these please. ty
1) God can do anything.
2) God can make an unliftable mountain (because of fact 1).
3) God can lift anything (because of fact 1 makes fact 2 false and therefore fact 1 also false)
4) God cannot lift the mountain. (makes fact 2 true and fact 3 false therefore fact 1 false)
Posted by Neoman 3 years ago
yea. we definitely need the 1.2 version. Me and my friends are working on it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: after pro's arg's are rebutted in round 2, I feel like he never gains back enough footage to fulfill his BOP