The Instigator
OtakuJordan
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points
The Contender
telisw37
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Bible is not inerrant

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
OtakuJordan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 566 times Debate No: 42617
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

OtakuJordan

Pro

I look forward to a good debate.

Rules
1. Trolling will result in an automatic seven-point loss.
2. Con may choose to use the first round for construction or acceptance.
telisw37

Con

You show me an error in the bible and I will show you, ignorance babbling something out of context, ignoring the Hebrew culture or roots of the scripture. There is History, Laws, Proverbs, that all point to Christ. The bible is the story/facts about one man Adam/Christ/Alpha/Omega/Adam/Christ. Who is the bride of Christ? Eve/Israel=Children of God! God's family rejected Him. So now is the time of the Gentiles. Rev_22:17, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Joh_1:11, He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Debate Round No. 1
OtakuJordan

Pro

Thank you for accepting, Con.

I shall now present some contradictions to be found within the pages of Holy Writ.

The number of fighting men in Israel
"Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand." -2 Samuel 24:9

"
Joab reported the number of the fighting men to David: In all Israel there were one million one hundred thousand men who could handle a sword, including four hundred and seventy thousand in Judah." -1 Chronicles 21:5

Here we have two records of the same event that clearly contradict each other on the point of how many warriors there were in Israel.

The place of Josiah's death
"
In his days Pharaoh Neco king of Egypt went up to the king of Assyria to the river Euphrates. King Josiah went to meet him, and Pharaoh Neco killed him at Megiddo, as soon as he saw him. And his servants carried him dead in a chariot from Megiddo and brought him to Jerusalem and buried him in his own tomb. And the people of the land took Jehoahaz the son of Josiah, and anointed him, and made him king in his father's place." -2 Kings 23:29-30

"
And the archers shot King Josiah. And the king said to his servants, "Take me away, for I am badly wounded." So his servants took him out of the chariot and carried him in his second chariot and brought him to Jerusalem. And he died and was buried in the tombs of his fathers. All Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah." -2 Chronicles 35:23-24

Did King Josiah die instantly at the battle of Megiddo and then have his dead body transported to Jerusalem, or was he wounded at Megiddo and then carried alive to Jerusalem where he died?

The angelic appearance before the women
"
There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it." -Matthew 28:2

"
As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." -Mark 16:5

"
While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." - Luke 28:4

"...
and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." -John 20:12

So, did the angel descend from heaven in front of the women and then roll the stone away in their presence and sit down upon it? Or did they find the stone rolled away and enter to find an angel sitting inside? Or did they enter and have two angels suddenly appear standing beside them? Or did they enter to find two angels sitting inside?

Conclusion
I look forward to Con's response. I may present more examples of error later in the debate.
telisw37

Con

Nice try! The same war and the same people but not the same time, David like Christ was rejected and even ran away from his own son Absalom. Wars were not won in one battle. Yes my opponent is speaking of two different battles of the same war in the same era but not the same exact time.
Again my opponent speaks of grandchildren given the same name as the the grandfather. Josiah was the grandson of Josiah Sr. Not the same guy do your homework.
Again he takes a verse from one account and mixes it in to create a lie.
Example; 4 people see the same thing but give different accounts? Yet lie not. Why? They saw it from different angles. Who says all the disciples came to the tomb at he exact time as my opponent says? Again same event different times or angles.
Debate Round No. 2
OtakuJordan

Pro

I would like to use this round to challenge my opponent to present some proof of his claims.

Also, I would like to point out that the angelic appearances listed were witnessed not by different disciples but by the women followers of Christ, Mary Magdalene and Mary, Jesus' mother.
telisw37

Con

The bible is a Hebrew document using English only, and ignore the Hebrew meanings, causes your errors.
Example; the bible refers to unicorns but referring to the Strongs or Lexicon #7214, a unicorn is a wild bull. So yes there were unicorns on Noah's ark. It is a waste of time discussing the bible while ignoring the Hebrew meanings, and culture, simply because words change over time to mean different things to different people.
My opponent says: Joab did not number the men of Israel twice.
First numbering found in 2 Samuel 24:9.
Notice the correct context, of who gave the order: 2Sa_24:1, And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Second Numbering found in Chronicles 24:9 Notice the context, and who gave the order: 1Ch_21:1, And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1Ch_21:2, And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.
Next issue of Josiah recorded in three places by three witnesses who saw it and recorded what they say. They all agree Josiah was dead by and arrow. All three agree that actual cause of the last breath of Josiah was the arrow. They most likely rushed him to a doctor to be saved, so that witness would say that he died in Jerusalem. I say no error about Josiah.
Smiths Bible Dictionary say's Josiah was mortally wounded (Good as Dead) and died on the way to Jerusalem.
Jeremiah cried over Josiah no error. The charge here is false, petty, and of no substance.
Next my opponent will say there is just one Mary in the New Testament.
He uses one verse from a different witness oraccounts and assumes that all four accounts or groups of men and the women arrived at the exact same time. The stories using common sense clearly is telling you they got there at different times, to answer the simple riddle.

The angelic appearance before the women
"There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it." -Matthew 28:2 (That is who rolled the stone away.)

"As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." -Mark 16:5 (So these people had no need to roll a stone they simply walked in.)

"While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." - Luke 28:4 (Again these guys saw two men.)
I fail to see your point.

"...and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." -John 20:12

So, did the angel descend from heaven in front of the women and then roll the stone away in their presence and sit down upon it? Or did they find the stone rolled away and enter to find an angel sitting inside? Or did they enter and have two angels suddenly appear standing beside them? Or did they enter to find two angels sitting inside?
Debate Round No. 3
OtakuJordan

Pro

Thank you for your reply.

"The bible is a Hebrew document using English only, and ignore the Hebrew meanings, causes your errors.

[...] My opponent says: Joab did not number the men of Israel twice.
First numbering found in 2 Samuel 24:9.
Notice the correct context, of who gave the order: 2Sa_24:1, And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Second Numbering found in Chronicles 24:9 Notice the context, and who gave the order: 1Ch_21:1, And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1Ch_21:2, And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it."

My opponent is correct in his assertion that relying solely upon English translations of the Bible will result in hermaneutical errors. What is ironic is that his argument concerning Joab is entirely based upon just such a reliance.

The term satan is not a name in the Hebrew canon. Rather it is a word meaning "adversary."[1] The transliteration of this word as the proper noun Satan is no doubt what has confused my opponent. 1 Chronicles 21:1, properly translated, reads "And one rose up as an adversary against Israel..."

Also, even if we accept the interpretation of satan as a proper noun, my opponent's argument is still invalid. It is perfectly clear within Judeo-Christian theology that God sometimes uses evil spirits as tools in his master plan (e.g., 1 Samuel 16:15), so it is not illogical to believe that God was working through "Satan" in 1 Chronicles.

In contrast, my opponent's interpretation raises far too many questions for it to be taken seriously. For example, why would one account mention David's numbering of Israel prompted by God but not his numbering of Israel prompted by Satan, and vice-versa. It seems logical that if the authors had considered one instance to be worth mentioning they would have considered the other to be as well. And why would God and the Satan-figure, polar opposites with goals that are diametrically opposed, both work to cause the same action?

It only makes sense to believe that we are dealing with two accounts of the same incident.

"Next issue of Josiah recorded in three places by three witnesses who saw it and recorded what they say. They all agree Josiah was dead by and arrow. All three agree that actual cause of the last breath of Josiah was the arrow. They most likely rushed him to a doctor to be saved, so that witness would say that he died in Jerusalem. I say no error about Josiah.
Smiths Bible Dictionary say's Josiah was mortally wounded (Good as Dead) and died on the way to Jerusalem.
Jeremiah cried over Josiah no error. The charge here is false, petty, and of no substance."

I am sorry, but "good as dead" is not the same as dead. 2 Kings says that "Pharoah Neco killed him[...] as soon as he saw him" and that "his [Josiah's] servants carried him dead [from the battle]." Any natural reading of the 2 Kings account tells us that Josiah died in battle. Any natural reading of the 2 Chronicles account tells use that he died in Jerusalem.

If my opponent is going to say that the Bible means "mortally wounded" when it says "dead," then he has already admitted biblical errancy.

"Next my opponent will say there is just one Mary in the New Testament.
He uses one verse from a different witness oraccounts and assumes that all four accounts or groups of men and the women arrived at the exact same time. The stories using common sense clearly is telling you they got there at different times, to answer the simple riddle."

"Mary Magdalene and the other Mary..." -Matthew 28:1

"Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome..." -Mark 16:1

"Now it was Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James..." -Luke 24:10

"Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene..." -John 20:1

Con said, "Next my opponent will say there is just one Mary in the New Testament." Is my opponent seriously claiming that there were multiple people called Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James who went to Jesus' tomb?

Sources
1. http://www.biblestudytools.com...
telisw37

Con

Well my opponent says what makes sense to him. But you have a written record of two counting of the fighting men if Israel. Sorry God not logical. I simply explained the written word. I clearly said many women were called Mary. I still am looking to see your error. You say Satan did not move David to number Israel. The bible clearly says: 1Ch_21:1, And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. These two events were years apart, explains the different numbering,
2Sa_24:1, And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
This a waste of time because God not logical according to your standard. The bible is clear.
Isa_55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Isa_55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa_55:10, For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa_55:11, So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by OtakuJordan 3 years ago
OtakuJordan
Please post your rebuttal in the debate, along with appropriate sources and citation of verses.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
I am ready to respond, but I only have my phone. Because grammar and correct current English is only accepted I better get home to my pc. Now my opponent did not read the beginning of each chapter. The first count was ordered by God the second ordered by Satan. Point 1 is just wrong. Point 2 is a matter of record one saw the man mortality wounded who was clinically dead and was legally dead in Jersalem. After Christ rose he was now supernatural walking through walls. Angels could do supernatural as well.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Artur 3 years ago
Artur
OtakuJordantelisw37Tied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO did better while CON discussed based on his own opinions. in the second round, PRO brought arguements and CON replied without any proof, he just interpreted the bible in the way he thinks/understands(as I think.) after being asked for evidence, he used bible but in his arguement, he didnot use evidence from the bible which supports his case, he just interpreted in the way he thinks. for example, when PRO talked about contradictions in census/counting CON says that 2 are diffrent census but he didnot give a reference from the bible which shows us that two were not the same census. due to reasons like this I vote PRO.
Vote Placed by Cygnus 3 years ago
Cygnus
OtakuJordantelisw37Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: The win goes to Pro zimply for the following reason. I have read all of Con's debates so far, and he has yet to make one ounce of sense with regard to the Bible. Although it was not discussed at length during this debate, Con maintains that God and Adam are one and the same. Even me, someone who identifies himself openly as a Christ mythicist, thinks that this pet theory of his is demonstrably absurd. Moreover, Con dismisses all of Pro's points with little lore than a dismissive sneer without engaging in an intellectual discussion on the matters. Pro wins easily.
Vote Placed by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
OtakuJordantelisw37Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con began his debate rudely by claiming that every error in the bible is ignorance babbled . Hence, I'm giving the conduct point for Pro simply for being very well-mannered. Con tried to refute Pro's arguments by saying that they were different happenings (1) without providing any proof, (2) Ignoring the striking similarities and (3) dropping arguments and ignoring strong objections. Hence, the arguments go for Pro for presenting errors that weren't effectively challenged.