The Instigator
pcast99
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
hosslay
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Bible

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
pcast99
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/26/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,061 times Debate No: 28653
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

pcast99

Con

I have finished reading the Bible, and I have discovered things like Incest, Polygamy, Infidelity, Owning Slaves, having sex with prostitutes, and destroying enemy civilizations because they practice a different religion than you is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of Yahweh, or God if you prefer. So I am challenging a Christian or Orthodox Jew to a debate to try and prove to me that these things are not acceptable in Judaism and Christianity. I know a lot of Christian and Jewish Apologists have tried to make excuses for these things, but they have not been successful. I have learned God is a mass murdering tyrant monster who not only condoned violent acts but committed them himself and ordered others to doing violence to others.

So if you believe the bible is true and God really is loving and merciful, than why do several areas of the Bible contradict this?
hosslay

Pro

I accept your debate. and I do understand the confusion from old law to new law that is in the bible. I am not by any means a bible scholar but I do understand it really well and will try my best to clear up most of the so called fuzzy parts that you and millions of people have a hard time understanding.
Debate Round No. 1
pcast99

Con

Thank you for accepting my debate. I understand you want to try and "clear up" misconceptions, and I think I will start out with the story of Lot in Genesis.

Sodom an Gomorrah were two cities that apparently were full of Sinners, so God decided to destroy the two cities, but Abraham made God promise that if there were even ten Righteous citizens he wouldn't destroy the cities. God only found one good man in the entire city, Lot, so He sent two angels to his house to warn him to flee with his family. Then an angry mob formed outside and demanded Lot turn them over so they could "know" them. Lot went out and begged them instead to take his two daughters, who were pure, and offered them to the mob so they could do what they wanted to them(Genesis 19: 7-8). And the angels blinded the mob so they would go away, but Lot even offering his own daughters to a mob to be raped and possibly killed is very sickening to me. But as the story progresses Lot and his two daughters end up in a cave after fleeing the city, with his wife being turned into salt for looking at the destruction. His two daughters had husbands who stayed behind and were killed, so they got their father drunk and each slept with him and became pregnant, and gave birth to children who would become fathers of the Moabites and Ammonites(Genesis 19: 30-38). God did not think wickedly of their actions, so right there He had no problem with incest or with Lot offering his children to be raped.

There is a perfect example of Polygamy with the story of Jacob, after fooling his father Isaac to give him his blessing instead of his brother Esau, he fleas to Haran and met Laban's Daughter Rachel and asks for her hand in marriage in exchange for seven years of labor. But Laban instead switched the marriage to his older daughter Leah, but agreed to give him Rachel for another seven years. Jacob loved Rachel more so God made Leah fertile and she gave birth to four sons. Rachel was still barren so she gave Jacob her servant Bilhah to raise children through her. Then Leah gave him her assistant Zilpah and he had children through her. God did not intervene in this act of polygamy, in fact he made it possible for Jacob to love both wives equally.

One of Jacob's sons was Judah, who had three sons of his own so he took a wife, Tamar, for his oldest son Er. But for whatever reasons Er was wicked in the sight of God so He struck him dead. Judah then gave Tamar to his next son in line, Onan, and even instructed him to perform the duty of a brother-in law and impregnate her. But Onan would spill his seed on the ground whenever they had sex, and this was apparently wicked to the Lord so he struck him dead as well. So Judah sent her away as he feared God would kill his last son if she was given to him. So she dressed as a prostitute and fooled Judah into having sex with her, all the while God took no issue with it. So what we've learned here is men have complete control over women and God will strike anyone dead who angers him. All this is found in Genesis.

Now the biggest issue I take with the Bible is Slavery. In Exodus chapter 21, God tells Moses the rules for slaves. I will paraphrase. If you buy a Hebrew slave, you can own him for six years and after that he will go free, for nothing. If his master gives him a wife and she becomes pregnant, both her and the child will be the masters' property. If the slave loves his children and wife he may have an awl bore through his ear and made a slave forever. In the rest of the chapter is says Daughters may be sold into slavery. And if a master strikes a slave but lives for a day or two, the slave will not be avenged. Now I know many say this is old Testament, but nowhere in the Bible does it ever say slavery is a sin and should be abolished.

One of the Ten commandments is thou shalt not kill, but also in chapter 21 it gives instructions that if people break certain commands they will be put to death. For Example, Exodus 21:15 "Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death." And keeping the Sabbath holy is very strict, and whomever works on the seventh day shall be put to death(Exodus 35: 2).

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as "the commandment of God" (Matthew 15:3) and as the "Word of God" (Matthew 15:6). He also indicated that it was indestructible: "Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18).
http://www.bethinking.org...

Take as much time as you want to respond, but I do ask that you address the issues of slavery I pointed out.
hosslay

Pro

First of all I would like to kinda put you in the head of god the best that I can. Now understand that before the earth, planets or stars there was only him. Now just imagine if you had no family or friends, or if you were the only person left on earth. What would you do or feel? In Isaiah God said that he searched the universe far and wide and could find no one like him. He was the only one here at that time. God must have been lonely and needed some sort of companionship and we know this because of Gen. when god made Adam he visited with him often and after he made eve he visited both of them. Anything you create you love in some way but that doesn't mean you will be happy with it all the time this is one reason god did what he did in killing people. If you make a table and your not happy with how it turned out you will destroy it and start over. God did the same thing with Noah. I know its hard to grasp that but God tells us not to worry about the first death he said to worry about the second.

God never said that he was ok with polygamy. he made Adam and then eve from Adam and gave eve to him for a wife (he never said wife's) this was the same with Noah and his sons. god said that he saw favor in the eyes of Noah fir what he did. It wasn't till the fall of (Gen 4:23) that polygamy occurs in the bible and was with a thriving rebellious society of sin with a murderer and a descendant of cain and his name was hamech. In Hebrews 13: 3-4 says that marriage is honorable above all. So that was not gods doing it was the culture of them back then and I promise you God never blessed them foe this.

About the slave part God never said this was ok. You have to understand who he is talking to and why. Moses was a good man but Moses was not at all smart. He told God that he could not go talk to pharaoh because he was not a good talker that's why god had Aaron (mosses brother) do the talking for him. Plus you have to understand what Moses was told to go and do and that was to free the slaves. From my understanding God did explain to rules of slavery to Moses but God never said slavery was ok.

And one more thing. God takes the life of people for reasons we do not understand. I do know that in the days of Moses God hardened the heart of pharaoh so that Gods people would know he was there God.
Debate Round No. 2
pcast99

Con

Before I begin I want to say since this is the final round there are good things in the Bile that I do think are good and that I agree with, but I simply want to point out many contradictions from the old testament going into the new testament.

If you believe the Bible than you know God is all powerful and all knowing, so he knows of all the actions that will occur before they happen. To say He was simply lonely and only created the Earth and mankind to have companions seems below God's ego. For you to say God was simply unhappy with mankind and flooding the entire Earth and wiping out all but one man and his family seems very reckless and uncaring. There could have been small children on the planet who caused no harm to anyone or did nothing wrong but God killed them anyway shows He doesn't have as much love and patience and tolerance for humanity as the Bible would like us to believe.

To address slavery, Moses indeed freed the Hebrew slaves from the Pharaoh, but when God is laying down the laws of the land, it was God Himself who told the rules and laws for slaves. He specifically told Moses how long you can own slaves and how to beat them. And this only applied to Hebrew slaves, but to other people it was even harsher. In Deuteronomy 20: 10-14 it states, " When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies."
And in Ephesians 6:5 it tells slaves, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
God himself tells people to not only take your enemies a slaves but to enjoy the spoils and do to them as you please. If God truly opposed slavery he would have put a stop to it and simply put a commandment such as thou shalt not own another human being as property. Jesus himself had every opportunity to speak out against it and to tell his disciples not to engage in it and abolish it but he never did. And I want to point out that when the US was in talks to abolish slavery many slave owners used the Bible to justify owning slaves.

For you to say that if God kills someone it is for reasons we don't understand is brushing His actions under the rug. And one of the plagues of Egypt was killing the firstborn son of Egyptians, many of whom could have been infants and children who had nothing to do with oppressing Hebrews.

And in the new testament Jesus is both the son of God and God incarnate, so he sacrificed Himself to Himself to get out of the mess of original sin he caused. Jesus wanted people to seek salvation through him, so right there people are worshiping him as another God, which is against one of the ten commandments. That's why Jews reject him as the savior by the way.

I will end here by saying the Bible is full of immoral acts God had no problem with, so if you want to believe the Bible you can do so, but I will choose not to believe it as the book of ultimate enlightenment and morality.
hosslay

Pro

hosslay forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Elmakai 3 years ago
Elmakai
I'm tempted to take up this debate just to finally try one. But you wanted a Christian or a Jew, so I will let someone else do so.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by LaL36 3 years ago
LaL36
pcast99hosslayTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit