The Instigator
CIIReligion
Pro (for)
Winning
46 Points
The Contender
Dale.G
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Bibles are NOT proof of God's existence.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
CIIReligion
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,439 times Debate No: 29072
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (43)
Votes (7)

 

CIIReligion

Pro

I am for the position that the Bibles are NOT proof that God exists, because it is a set of books written by man in a time of very little scientific understanding. I also think that the bibles were written to control people. Man created God, not the other way around.

Rules for this debate:

1. You must debate this issue ONLY and cannot ask a question that is not directly in relation.

2. You must use proper grammar and spelling. Spell check is available if you need it.

3. Please use sources as much as possible, the Bibles are not a good source, use websites and documents instead.
Dale.G

Con

OK Before i Start this Debate I would like to set some rules

Number 1. I can use the Bible as proof the Bible is real

Number 2. no Name calling

OK here we go with the Debate I strongly Believe and have faith that the Bible is proof God is real why well the Bible
and History, History talks a lot about the Bible Daniel cannot refute that.

History talks about the shroud of turin I have seen Video Evidence of what History has to say about the shroud of turin

here is a YouTube link
/ Me Quote on the Link I gave you it is what History has said about the shroud of turin
and there are Scientists who are Christians as well who fellow the Bible you also will see Scientists talking in the link i sent to you have a watch it is a video Evidence to my claim :)

I would ask Daniel one thing have you Daniel ever seen a Bible before
Debate Round No. 1
CIIReligion

Pro

First off, quoting the History Channel is not a good source for this argument.


Second, the shroud of Turin has been found to be a hoax.

YouTube sources provided:




Website sources:
http://skepdic.com...

http://cybercomputing.com...

Third, YES Dale, I have seen and read your bibles before. Let me reiterate that, BIBLES. The reason I am using it in a plural form is because of the different variations and versions of the Bible.

My question to you would be, have you read the unedited first edition of the bible which was then translated and revised over centuries? I don't think you have. How can you say that something that was written by man can be the word of god or proof of his existence?

Remember, you are trying to use the Bibles as proof that the Bibles are true and it proves god exists. This is called circular reasoning and I can do the same thing with Harry Potter and I have 7 completely different books to prove he is real.

Source for circular reasoning:


Dale.G

Con

is that the best you can do Daniel give me a video of 3:10 the video link i posted was about 1.27:56 the Link i posted tells everyone more about the shroud of Turin

/ Me Quote The shroud of Turin is 2000 years old and another thing to is I don't think that the The shroud of Turin shows Jesus beard why because I see the face of Jesus on the shroud of Turin

Daniel said this to me How can you say that something that was written by man can be the word of god or proof of his existence?

/ Me Quote well God spoke through people to give people a message the Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 1:21
King James Version (KJV)
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

/ Me Quote someone rote the Bible and how I know that something like the bible was written by man can be the word of god or proof of his existence? is this Jesus birth, there where eye witness who sore Jesus born

there where 3 wise Men that came to Jesus The Bible say's in Matthew 2:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Daniel there are a lot of other proof for the bible being real because of Einstein Proves God Exists

plus Science Confirms the Bible http://evidencebible.com...
Debate Round No. 2
CIIReligion

Pro

First, I don't think anyone has not seen the Documentary the History channel broadcasted. And I don't think anyone reading this debate would waste their time on a hour and a half long video that is a few years old. I have given proof that the Shroud was a hoax. You can believe it or not, but the proof is there.

Second, Matthew 2, there is no indication of how many wisemen came to visit the young child Jesus, nor does it say he was a baby. The only reference to a visit from anyone during the birth of Jesus were Shepherds (Luke 2:15)

http://www.snopes.com...

Where is your proof that Einstein proves god exists? And even if you give proof, how does that have anything to do with the bibles?

The bibles are also full of contradictions that proves the bibles are not truth.
http://www.evilbible.com...

As for your last source, I can prove some of it is false by a couple searches of your own Bibles:

1. The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22).

Isaiah 40:22
New International Version (NIV)

22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

A CIRCLE is not a sphere!
2. Light moves (Job 38:19,20).
Job 38:19-20

New International Version (NIV)

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
No where doe is say anything about light moving.

3. Air has weight (Job 28:25).
Job 28:25
King James Version (KJV)

25 To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

There is no mention of air, only wind and when they were talking about the weight, they meant force, because they did not have a word for that.

You really need to do a little more research of your own bibles before you use scripture and sites as sources.
Dale.G

Con

wow Daniel really said something really great, Daniel said this to me The only reference to a visit from anyone during the birth of Jesus were Shepherds (Luke 2:15)

/ Me Quote it is nice for Daniel to say that The only reference to a visit from anyone during the birth of Jesus were Shepherds (Luke 2:15) / Me Quote it really goes to show that Daniel knows deep in his heart that the Bible is real :)

/ Me Quote well Mr Daniel There can mean 3 people right like for example if I was to say there where people at the park and if someone tells me I can say about 3 people :)

Daniel you said this to me Where is your proof that Einstein proves god exists? And even if you give proof, how does that have anything to do with the bibles?

/ Me Quote easy the last 4 words you said Daniel where this Einstein proves god exists?
/ Me Quote lol ahhahahahhahahahha here is my proof that Einstein proves god exists? here is a link
fellow the link that proves Einstein proves god exists?

Daniel said this to me The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22).

Isaiah 40:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

A CIRCLE is not a sphere!
/ Me Quote Daniel how do u know a CIRCLE is not a sphere! I expect you Daniel to back up what you said about A CIRCLE is not a sphere!

/ Me Quote Daniel said this to me 2. Light moves (Job 38:19,20).
Job 38:19-20
New International Version (NIV)

19 "What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
No where doe is say anything about light moving.

/ me Quote Daniel what is your point with Job 38:19,20

Daniel win and air are the same i can choose to say win or air it doesn't matter
Debate Round No. 3
CIIReligion

Pro

Dale, just because I quote and reference something out of your own bibles, that you do not even know, does NOT mean I affirm that Jesus or God is real. That is called delusional.

You are correct, if you say there are people in a park, it could mean 3, but it could also mean 4 or more other people. Your bibles do not stipulate how many.

That was a wonderful video on Albert Einstein, but how exactly does it prove your bible is proof of god's existence? You have faile to provide any evidence for this.

Okay, as for a circle not being a sphere:

Circle - http://mathworld.wolfram.com...

Sphere - http://mathworld.wolfram.com...;

As for what is my point with Job 38:19,20? Well it is to show that the last statement and source you gave in round 2 is full of misinformation!

Wind is the movement of air and it consists of air, but it is not air. The wind on mars consists of CO2 and is not considered air, so wind and air cannot be used as the same thing.

You have still not provided any evidence that your bibles are proof of God's existence.
Dale.G

Con

What evidence doI have that the Bible is a 100% accurate that proves God who is Jesus Christ, well there has being War's And famines and Earthquakes anyone will believe that there has being War's and Famines and Earthquakes that has Happen
If someone believes that their has being war's and famines and earthquakes that has happen, Then they will believe what the Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
/ Me Quote now that proof's the BIBLE to be 100 percent Accurate and Correct :) because their has being War's and the has being Earthquakes. and their has being famines, and there still are earthquakes happen now,' and their still are rumors of War and Famines and earth Quakes happening as we speak, look at the war's over the years :) now here is more proof and Evidence that the BIBLE is 100 percent Accurate and Correct, The walls of Jericho are real correct well the bible mentions the walls of Jericho fell the bible say's in Hebrews 11:30
King James Version (KJV)
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Debate Round No. 4
CIIReligion

Pro

"If someone believes that their has being war's and famines and earthquakes that has happen, Then they will believe what the Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:6-7"

No they won't! Just because someone says something so vague and generalized, does not mean it is true or proof that the bible or god is true.

You can have historical facts in the bible and it still not be true. There are many Fictional books that have real places and happenings in them, a good example i the DaVinci Code by Dan Brown. Or the movie National Treasure with Nicholas Cage. Does that mean the book or the movie is real? NO

Sorry, but you have not supplied any evidence to prove the bible proves that god exists. I am not asking for proof the bible is real.
Dale.G

Con

Daniel I have given u a lot of proof, that the Bible is real :) so if I say there: was a Earthquake that has happen. in History you Daniel would not believe me to me that is crazy, anyone in their right mind would believe someone who has said there has being Wars Famines and Earthquakes well Daniel you want proof and Evidence so I gave you Proof and Evidence that the Bible is Proof of God being very real I will give u more Proof and Evidence of God being very real Daniel you do not have any faith in God right so for you to believe and have faith in God you will have to call out of your throat and believe in your heart that God who is Jesus Christ is real Daniel you will need to do a lot more then try to disprove God to believe in God Daniel would you right now call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ if you do then you will be saved the Apostle Paul said in Romans 10:9-13
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

/ Me Quote Daniel if you call out to God who is Jesus Christ tonight and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to show himself to you Jesus will i have asked Father God to show me Jesus Christ in dreams visions and Jesus Christ has came to me but I had to have faith in Jesus Christ to do it the Bible say's in Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

/ Me Quote Daniel just call out to Jesus Christ :) that is when you will believe God is real
Debate Round No. 5
43 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by truthoverbelief 3 years ago
truthoverbelief
Yes they are proof.

If you asked the Bible, who is "The Father" and in code form the answer was "God", would that seem to be just a coincidence?

If you asked the Bible, who is "The Lord" and in code form the answer was "Christ", would that seem to be just a coincidence?

If you asked the Bible, who is "The Father", "The Son", and "The Holy Spirit", and in code form the answer was "Christ" and "God", would that seem to be just a coincidence?

And the list goes on.............................

Go to http://goo.gl... and click on the flashing words "Watch / Listen". This takes you on a web page tour of such proof of God's existence, and does so via automatic web page scrolling along with complete audio coverage.
Posted by cilla_98 4 years ago
cilla_98
Even though I disagree with the Pro, his arguments were strong and infallible. The Con side needed to find better sources for his statements. His weakness in not doing so cost him the debate. I would like to see this debate argued again, with new contenders.
Posted by CelticStar 4 years ago
CelticStar
Not everyone who believes in God is like that...there are people who try and help homosexuals. And who even help without thinking of/about God while doing so. Not that you are saying every religious person acts that way though. Some are even open to science. I'm sure there are even some scientist who are religious. They believe in some parts, while others they don't believe. The same with other people. Heck some are even open to the idea that God created evolution.

As for science only logic is expressed though it (and math) not emotion. Though emotion may very well drive them to discovering certain things.And that's okay. The thing to be careful about is science can not explain everything (currently). And it is constantly changing. Science may explain how emotions happen. But they don't seem to explain 'why we have them', or 'why we even got them in the first place'. So trying to figure out religion, and failing to fully logically understand emotion seems a bit..weird. Since emotions are so inter-mingled in religion. Kinda like trying to solve a math problem without knowing how to multiply and divide.

The only reason religion and science are being competed against each other is because of both sides. Not just those who believe in the bible in it's entirety. But it's also because of those who rely on science as equally as those who rely on the bible in its entity. Since it dose take two, to fight. Though that fight may be in various forms.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
If you believe that all the stars and galaxies, the reason for everything became a savior by coming to earth in the form of a man only to be killed to show love and forgiveness, you are brainwashed by the poison. Why did you make all those galaxies and why are you so petty and anal about the land of israel. These questions create the same result as asking yourself how santa claus makes it to each house while each kid is sleeping taking in account the time zones, once you understand the time zones and the sheer number of houses he would have to hit, its over, you have cracked the code on the fairy tale. However, in the case of your religion and faith, you will not apply such meaningful questions. Medical marijuana is a blessing to millions in severe pain, seizures, and a plethora of other benefits, it can even be administered in liquid form for children suffering. Mankind cant evolve with a ball and chain of outdated beliefs infecting its govt, schools, and childrens minds! :)

So while you and your buddy pascal are making irrational wagers based on a statistical improbability in the first place, I'll be a good human who is not only an organ donor, and philanthropist but an intellectual advocate with a perpensity to benefit children simply because I want to, Not because im going to get a scooby snack when I die

BigKids 2:40--Bottom line, conciousness is the ground of all being, so thats why its so important to realize when someones conciousness feels attracted to the same sex, so what, can you get anymore petty than to deny someone the same rights you have in a court of law, its 2013 not 113, grow up already :)

Quotes 4:21--To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize--Voltaire

CaptainObvious 11:58--There is a difference between interpreting and ignoring. Interpreting the bible and ignoring 21st Century scientific evidence is nothing short of ignorance :)
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
The church is really good at teaching children when Not to think to prevent this evolution into a more consiously evolved person. They understand that for all children, what"s truly important to a child is what they feel in their heart. That can get clouded and missed when you spend too much time in thinking. So they will undertake the burden of thinking for you. Teaching kids Not to think is a trickier lesson and harder to teach because it"s not based on a shared logic, it"s not mathematical, it"s not universal. Because neither are "hearts" those things. Knowing when not to think stops a child from getting too stressed about the rights and wrongs of their choices. That way when you grow up and vote to deny gay marriage, even though you are doing bad by denying another person the same rights you have because of certain religious doctrine, you dont feel bad about the choice to deny human rights because its "out of your hands, its in doctrine".

You can find love, hope and faith, all around you in nature and it is best expressed thru science and complex math. We can figure out a lot with science and numbers when the guy using the science and numbers is like Stephen Hawking or someone else that plays on that High level of intellect. Thousands of yrs ago they used a book called the bible to guide them thru and to help explain life. This book has page after page on who to kill and why. Barbarism, slavery, and other wicked and disisgusting habits.

Religions had to compete against this science coming on the scene causing trouble with all its observations and experiments and smart people! They had to really spread the word, and have followers, to survive and grow, most did this by the sword, and it was religions way of saying "its my way or the highway". Today the weapon of choice is too simply discredit or ignore science :)
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
Parents are malnourishing their children, millions are poisoned every year . A man truly interested in his childs best interests, is Not only vigilante concerning their nutritional diet, but also their intellectual diet. You shield them from porn, and violence all the time, you teach them values, and loyalty, love, hope , faith, inspiration. However the bar none best father in the world, also, teaches his kids the process on How to think, an old fashioned and outdated man with "good intentions", teaches his kids thru indoctrination, What to think, and Yes there is a Huge difference!

As a parent you can indoctrinate your children with What to think thru religion or you can teach them how to think thru logic, facts, evidence, common sense, proof , reasoning, probability, thinking, intelligence, feasability, confirmation, observation, science experiments, testing, wisdom, liklihood, knowledge, rationality, openning ones mind, awareness, not being a complete moron their entire life, trusting yourself, believing in yourself, and doing good because you want to be accountable to yourself, Not because a sky daddy is watching and waiting to give you a scooby snack when you die :) There is far more virtue in doing good because you want to Not because a sky daddy is watching :)
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
celtic, we do not deny human rights to marriage or abortion without religion.

Its a shame in 2013 in the best country to live, we have immature humans infecting our government with lunacy learned form a book that is thousands of years old.

The aryan nation uses the bible to justfiy their beliefs, christianity uses the bible to justify their beliefs.

If the aryan nation had their way they would want to put restrictions on African Americans, we dont give them their way just because they justify their beliefs from the bible.

However, that same book, the chridtians use to justify their belief to put restrictions on homosexuals.

Why does christian lunacy have a voice but aryan nation lunaacy does not. It is more proof of the hypocracy of religion and more proof religion is a poison.
Posted by BGood 4 years ago
BGood
Agreeing to use the Bible as proof that the Bible is true? Oh, God.
Posted by CelticStar 4 years ago
CelticStar
I can see were your coming from. Though personally I'd sooner blame those who abuse the religion than the religion itself. And there have always been labels for people. If not religion (should it end) it's a persons color, or where they come form; or their language,etc that they get labeled with. Perhaps we partly got like this because in science things are divided and classified. So for some it would be hard not to categorize people as wrong as it is. Whose to know for sure though.

As with school there are many factors (though I hope it's okay to assume you don't mean religion is the only cause?). For some it may be religion. For others, they simply could care less about learning the subjects and some of the kids aren't religious.

Never had a chance to thank you for your time and opinion btw (as with everyone else's) so, thank you.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
celtic, not only is religion divisive in fundamentalists, every religious person creates divisiveness by labeling their child a christian child, or jewish child, catholic child, muslim child, mormon child, baptist child, etc etc.

Now add to that the fact that science has thouroughly displayed a super abundance of evidence that make it a statistical improbability that the Fibonacci Sequence, the Mandelbrot Set, the sub atomic world of particle physics, biology, embryology, and all quantum sciences were put in motion by a being that gave the land of israel to the jews as some otyescent real estate broker, or the designer of the universe is admittedly jealous and concerned with what days you hold holy in its honor, and has a circumcision covenent with men but no covenent of any kind with women!

Ask yourself this. Why are kids so uneducated in science and math, yet their knowledge of a "god" is always hammered in their heads at young age?

Humans have Not figured out how to accept life and death without religion. Thats because for centuries religious leaders have either killed or somehow persecuted those who know the Truth!

Since they cant do that anymore, its time for people of reason to stand up and say enough is enough.

Religious faith discourages free thought, its divisive and its dangerous :)

The beautiful development of the earth and life thru cumulative evolution over billions of years was not put in motion by a petty bully, who uses wicked and disgusting ways to prove a point!

DeathGames 4:4--Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you." (Genesis 22:2)

Misogyny 2:12--"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

Quotes 5:21--A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are--Chauncey Depew :)
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro won the debate convincingly in round two, with a nifty video on Circular Reasoning. And... did Dale.G really use that silly "war and earthquakes" argument again?!
Vote Placed by minstrel 4 years ago
minstrel
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This is just a complete and utter failure. Con could have not shown up and he would have made a better case.
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Reasons for voting decision: The bible is provably historically inaccurate. To try to use something that is proven inaccurate to prove the validity of anything - especially itself - is foolish in the extreme. Con never had a chance with that angle.
Vote Placed by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I spoke with Websters Dictionary and they are going to implement this debate under their new entry "No brainer". Circular reasoning and ridiculous claims are patented by con
Vote Placed by rowsdower 4 years ago
rowsdower
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Spelling and grammar for blatantly obvious reasons. Con's arguments that were related to the topic were horribly unconvincing. You can't use the bible as a source to establish the validity of the bible.
Vote Placed by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Its been proven that the bible contradicts itself many times, and plus fails to show how God was created before he was eternal. you still have to be made before you can be eternal.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 4 years ago
bladerunner060
CIIReligionDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: This is not a vote bomb. Con's conduct was insulting, his S&G leaves much to be desired, he gave no convincing arguments, and his sources were not even remotely reliable. "Evidence bible", really?