The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Stupidape
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Biblical Last Days; Are they approaching?

Do you like this debate?NoYes-3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 454 times Debate No: 93294
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (0)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro


Resolution: That it is unintelligent to not determine Gods reality for yourself.


Resolution: that it is dangerous not to know if Hell exists.


Resolution: That time is running out to seek God based on World events.


The internet is abuzz with news of impending doom, martial law, One World Order Forced upon you. Things like Financial collapse, Global unrest, mass destruction from Nibiru, asteroids, Earthquake’s, extreme weather, civil unrest, and terrorism run rampant.


But despite these topics, many appear to be oblivious, unconcerned, disbelieving, or flat out ignorant of the situation?


What do the facts say?


http://www.naturalnews.com...


Martial law is real: Americans now being forced out of their homes at gunpoint


4/26/2013 - If you ever wanted to see what a police state looks like up close and personal, look no further than Boston in the aftermath of the marathon terrorist attack. New video footage released online following last week's lock-down and the house-to-house searches for a lone terror suspect that followed...


Isn't it obvious? If Operation Jade Helm were happening in any other country, it would be immediately labeled a military drill for martial law


3/30/2015 - I'm always amazed at how people can be programmed by the mainstream media to ignore the obvious reality happening right in front of their eyes. Right now, America is being lulled into a hypnotic sense of denial while military training for martial law is happening right in their own neighborhoods and...


Are U.S. Marines running martial law training drills in Los Angeles?


12/12/2014 - U.S. Marines are conducting training in and around the Greater Los Angeles area, giving some residents a bit of unease while others have opined that the exercises are really just preparation for mass civil unrest. According to various local reporting, some residents were stunned to see Marine transport...


Ben Carson: Can Obama use martial law to keep White House post 2016


SAN ANTONIO, November 19, 2015 — Dr. Ben Carson, a black neurosurgeon and 2016 Republican presidential candidate, has repeatedly stated that he believes there is a chance that the 2016 elections may not be held at all.


Widespread anarchy gripping the country could be reason enough for the Obama administration to announce the implementation of martial law and the suspension of some, if not all, of Americans’ constitutionally protected rights — including the right to vote and hold national elections.On the surface this seems unbelievable, but upon further analysis, Carson’s ominous suggestion is plausible; this is an extremely unnerving scenario that all Americans should be aware of and ready for.


Earthquakes:


http://www.nbcnews.com...


Between 2004 and 2014, 18 earthquakes with magnitudes of 8.0 or more rattled subduction zones around the globe. That's an increase of 265 percent over the average rate of the previous century, which saw 71 great quakes, according to a report to the annual meeting of the Geological Society of America this week in Vancouver, British Columbia.


Mass Murder/Terrorism


http://www.msn.com...


http://www.nytimes.com...


http://www.gannett-cdn.com...


Since 2006, there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States.


Mass Killings Happen About Every Two Weeks


The FBI counted 172 cases of mass killings between 2006 and 2011.


Mass Extinctions:


http://offgridsurvival.com...


http://www.biologicaldiversity.org...


THE EXTINCTION CRISIS


It’s frightening but true: Our planet is now in the midst of its sixth mass extinction of plants and animals — the sixth wave of extinctions in the past half-billion years. We’re currently experiencing the worst spate of species die-offs since the loss of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Although extinction is a natural phenomenon, it occurs at a natural “background” rate of about one to five species per year. Scientists estimate we’re now losing species at 1,000 to 10,000 times the background rate, with literally dozens going extinct every day [1]. It could be a scary future indeed, with as many as 30 to 50 percent of all species possibly heading toward extinction by mid-century [2].


Meteors:


http://www.amsmeteors.org...


Reports found: 1598 in the last 30 days


Financial collapse:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com...


Pope Francis Warns The Global Economy Is Near Collapse


New Report: "Global Collapse Appears Likely"


“Against Apocalypticism


Charles J. Reid, Jr. | Posted 03.12.2013 | Religion


Read More: Dispensationalist Fundamentalism, Apocalypse, Survivalists, Hal Lindsey, Rick Santelli, Gun Violence, Left Behind, End of the World, Economic Collapse, Religion News


Charles J. Reid, Jr.


Most people probably took the Mayan Apocalypse as light-heartedly as I did, though clearly there were some who really thought the end was nigh. What worries me, however, is that this story is symptomatic of a more pathological apocalypticism that has begun to permeate American culture.”



Most believers are saying that according to The Book of revelation, the warning signs are there! Wars, rumors of wars, pestilence, famines, drought, extreme weather, distress of peoples, earthquake’s, the last one mentioned before Christ returns and the appearance of the antichrist is the great apostasy?


Definition of apostasy


1 : renunciation of a religious faith


2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection


http://www.merriam-webster.com...



That particular section is noted in:


1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


**this explains the 33,820 Christian religions out there.**


Galatians 1


8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition” (2 Thes. 2:10-3).


The Greek term for “falling away” here, is apostasia –from which the English appropriates the word "apostasy." There is coming, this means, a departure from the thing Antichrist both imitates and is totally against.


http://www.rapturenotes.com...



but before the son of perdition can be revealed the restrainer must depart: here:



2 Thessalonians 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His [f]coming; 9 that is, the one whose [g]coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and [h]signs and false wonders, 10 and with [i]all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.


“The Holy Spirit


That leaves the Holy Spirit Himself and there happens to be Biblical precedent for both His restraining influence and His abrupt withdrawal before a world wide judgment. In support of His restraining influence, John 16:8 has the Lord saying the role of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of guilt in regard to sin, and righteousness, and judgment. Notice the Lord didn’t say He would convict only believers, but the world, believers or not. The Greek word John used there is “kosmos”, which means the whole world.



Just as everyone intuitively knows there’s a God (Romans 1:18-20), everyone intuitively knows right from wrong. Paul said even those who don’t have the law will do things the law requires by nature because the requirements of the law are written on our hearts, and our consciences will accuse or defend our actions accordingly (Romans 2:14-15). I believe the “guilty conscience” that even unbelievers experience when they do wrong is the Holy Spirit convicting them in regard to sin, righteousness, and judgment. Throughout the Church Age this conviction has been a major restraining force against evil in the world.”


https://gracethrufaith.com...



This of course naturally begs the question IF God has not been proven False, why would any man assume Him false first rather than seek to find out on their own the truth of it? Does it make sense to just ignore, this factoid, without thought of the consequences of such action? I mean you want to run around believing scientists well that’s okay, BUT it’s you that is inevitably paying the price isn’t it? I mean if Scientists don’t research God, sure they’re going to Hell, BUT …. So are you, are you not? because YOU didn’t look either? You sat around waiting for someone ELSE to prove it to you? So basically is it intelligent to not look for God yourself? Everybody has heard of Hell …. So claiming ignorance of the consequences is just another sin …. Lying? So is it? Is it intelligent to not seek Gods reality before you die? And do you KNOW when that may occur? Today? 1 year from today, 50 years from today?


Stupidape

Con

Outline

I. Intro
II. Age of the Earth less than 10,000 years or over a billion?
III. Turning water to wine
IV. Walking on water
V. Other religions
VI. Evolution
VII. No evidence of hell nor heaven
VIII. Summary
IX. Sources

I. Intro

Thanks for creating this debate. I wish you the best of luck.

First and foremost, the Bible is a religious book. The facts in this religious doctrine conflict dramatically with science and evidence. Therefore, I will use science and evidence to contest some key facts in the Bible. I will show that the events of the Bible are extremely improbable and appeal to the voter's logic.

II. Age of the Earth less than 10,000 years or over a billion?

According to evidence "The Earth is a little over 4.5 billion years old, its oldest materials being 4.3 billion-year-old zircon crystals." [1]

Many people believe that humans were created less than 10,000 years ago. "More than four in 10 Americans continue to believe that God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago" [2].

I ask which has more evidence supporting the view? A belief system or science? Science has more evidence, and therefore the answer is the Earth is over 4.5 billion years is much more probable than less than 10,000.

III. Turning water into wine

Chemistry 101 here, water is the molecule H2O. Wine, contains many ingredients other than water. "Yet it’s no secret that many wines (most, in fact) include a lot more than grapes, yeast and sulfur. " [3] Turning water to wine is physically impossible to the best of logical reasoning.

IV. Walking on water

"The green basilisk lizard is also called a plumed or double-crested basilisk; but its amazing ability to run on water gives this species its most recognizable moniker: the Jesus Christ lizard." [4]

I haven't seen any humans nor any filmed nor repeatable cases of a human being able to walk on water. Yet, this lizard can. The green basilisk lizard is vastly different from a human. Again, walking on water is very unlikely.

V. Other religions

Many other religions claim they are the one and only religion. In fact, some go so far as to murder innocents only because they claim Jesus Christ is God. "A video released by the Islamic State purportedly shows militants beheading Christian hostages." [5].

Clearly, both Allah and Jesus Christ cannot be God at the same time. Yet, each side is as dogmatic as the other.

VI. Evolution

Evolution provides a solid solution backed with copious evidence of how humans evolved. Humans cannot evolved from monkeys and spontaneously be created by God. Evolution has evidence on its side, and therefore is more likely.

VII. No evidence of Hell nor Heaven

Humans have developed many technologies. Despite technological advances we are no closer to finding either Hell nor Heaven. We have tunneled deep in the Earth and flew high in the sky. The further we look and do not find Heaven nor Hell, the less likely they are to exist. "This latest effort, which drilled 4,644 feet (1,416 meters) below the ocean seafloor" [6]

VIII. Summary

In summary, the likely hood of God existing is extremely low. Therefore, it is logical to assume that there is no heaven nor hell. There are many threats to the world, but the Bible is unlikely to aid us against these events. Yes, some of the events that threaten us Earthlings may be similar to events predicted in the Bible. Yet, the evidence suggests that this is purely coincidence.

IX. Sources
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk...
2. http://www.gallup.com...
3. http://www.nytimes.com...
4. http://animals.nationalgeographic.com...
5. http://www.usatoday.com...
6. http://www.livescience.com...
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I thank Con for his acceptance of this noble endeavor. It is sad that I must point out the many, many incorrect assessments regarding science that has recently come to light ... as He has not viewed my previous debates, he would likely not have relied so much in such a flawed science, AS Science.

1. Evolution is a fabrication and a lie.
2.Evolution can provide not a single physical proof of ever successfully creating an animal, that is alive, breathing and walking upon this planet to this very day, not ONE. Nothing to show their Theory of origins of Life anything but fiction.

Not a single animal, mammal, crustacean, fly, other insect, amphibian, is there anything more???? Not one creature was created out of ALL the methods of experimentation from scientist of any country upon the Globe to PROVE their theory of origin.

IF so then Con would not mind providing our readers with a link to Sciences created creature, that has proven methodology attached .... Must be a real animal, not a microbe, bacteria, other microscopic thingy, because microscopic thingys still exist today and DO NOT BECOME animals. WE are not microbes so for evolution to be factual it has to have been able to create an animal.

Science has had to provide its theories based on PRE-EXISTING creatures. Claiming transitional, but unable to PROVE transition from pre-existing but extinct species. If one merely considers that there are 8.7 Million species upon the earth and science insist they came from a microbe .... there should be Millions of transitional fossils in the fossil record?

This was the grief of Charles darwin himself ... “Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms.”~Charles darwin

But enough about the Lie of evolution. Let us address the other commentaries shall we?

One must ask questions with regards to this hypothesis?
1. Has Science ever searched for the existence of God at all? If not why not?
2. One cannot quote Science with regard to God solely because science has for reasons unknown chosen not to investigate it? That of course appears quite irresponsible considering that all souls not accepting Gods authority prior to Death will suffer eternal Condemnation in Hell, a place of well .... read it yourself?

Fire

Now look into hell and see what she saw. Look at the floor of hell. It is red hot like red hot iron. Streams of burning pitch and sulfur run through it. Is. xxxiv The floor blazes up to the roof. Look at the walls, the enormous stones are red hot; sparks of fire are always falling down from them. Lift up your eyes to the roof of hell; it is like a sheet of blazing fire. Sometimes when you get up on a winter's morning, you see the country filled with a great thick fog. Hell is filled with a fog of fire. In some parts of the world torrents of rain come down which sweep away trees and houses. In hell, torrents, not of rain, but of fire and brimstone, are rained down. Ps. x. "The Lord shall rain down on sinners fire and brimstone." Storms of hail stones come down on the earth and break the windows in pieces. But in hell the hail stones are thunder bolts, red hot balls of fire. Job xli. God shall send thunder bolts against him. See that great whirlwind of fire sweeping across hell.

I ask which has more evidence supporting the view? A belief system or science?

There is Nothing IN the whole of science that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Life should exist on the Earth at all? In Fact science has proven BEYOND a reasonable doubt that Life could not have come by any other method BUT CREATION!

Attend me Please.

1. Life has proven beyond all doubt that life can only reproduce through an ovum .... can't reproduce without one.

2. with the exception of certain lizards and frogs, all ovum must be fertilized by a male of the species, and that's the majority of life ... no exceptions but small percent, and even they must produce from an ovum within themselves, just not required external fertilization. These are Scientific facts, can't get around them.

3. Not a single experiment in the entirety of evolutionary exploration has ever created an ovum .... can't do it, it must come from a female of each species.

4. Not a single experiment in the entirety of evolutionary exploration has ever created sperm .... couldn't do it, must come from a male of the species.

5. Medical Science has proven Beyond doubt that life Has Never Been Created without the ovum, and in virtually all cases sperm.

Age of the Earth: 10,000 years or Billion.
Hmmm, I was not aware that it was more than 6000 years. Possibly coming on 7,000 would be my guess.

Science
According to evidence "The Earth is a little over 4.5 billion years old, its oldest materials being 4.3 billion-year-old zircon crystals." [1]

Rationale: For the earth to have formed naturally over time might take 4.5 billion years, that crystal thingy would likely take that long to form on its own. No Christian has ever disputed that?

We despute your rationales for it ..... because you base it on percieved data outside the knowledge of God? Look, God created Adam ... not as a baby, but as a MAN! To a scientist or to you and me He would look years old, even though He was only minutes old ... yes? The animals? They were created as adult creatures too. They were not created as babies, the trees were formed, grasses, flowers lakes, fish fowls, all of it created as fully mature objects and creatures.

You talk of REASON ... so reason, Which DOES sound more plausible?

1. That a microbe, managed to create a creature, who managed to stay alive to adulthood without an adult to feed, water or protect it, Then it formed a second creature which luck would have it be a male so it could produce a sperm, then together they became, lizards, then they became insects, then they became whales, then they became dinosaurs, then they became apes, then they became pigs, then ..... oh Please, not even you are THAT stupid, so why you trying so hard to be obtuse?

2. OR that God created all creatures fish, fowl, land animals, amphibians insects all as adults, male and female to allow for ovum and sperm production, trees and flowers as mature with seeds in them to begin reproduction,

it's the only plausible option, the other is the one too far fetched to be real. perhaps why no evidence? Huh?

Oh just one other little tidbit.

IF science is correct Man has been present on the Earth for 200,000 years, but can only account for Civilization for 6000 years. (coincidence right?)

You want Science facts? How bout mathmatics.

The first Census was done in 1790 by George Washington the population of the united States at that time was 3.9 Million in 226 years from that day till Today that has grown to a Census 323,928,727

There is no mathmatical way we could have been present 200,000 years or where are the Billions upon Billions of people that would have been produced in that time span?

1790-2016 226 YEARS 3.9 to 323,928,727 in just only 226 YEARS people

IF WE'VE BEEN HERE 200,000 years, where did all those people go? Billions are missing aren't they? Nobodies asking are they? Scientist ain't talking about that though huh?

The Bible is absolutely true. CANNOT find what your NOT looking for. 2 Billion of Us know he exists 4 Billion (that would be you) are ignorant of Him, and are being held fully accountable. Look don't look .... the choice as the consequence is completely on you! God isn't sending the scientist to Hell for not proving He exist to you? He will be sending YOU because you choose not to look!

Keep believing in science fantasies or snap out of it and start looking for the God who IS waiting patiently for you. He's not going to wait forever for you. Judging by how fast America is throwing Him out of the country, I would start real soon ... just given you fair warning, once the call is over? It's Over! and Troubles begin after that, according to Revelation Chapter 6

Stupidape

Con

Thank you for making an argument. I can tell you put forth some real effort I'm having a similar argument with a Muslim who took the easy way out, lol.


I missed this argument in the first round. " BUT it’s you that is inevitably paying the price isn’t it? I mean if Scientists don’t research God, sure they’re going to Hell, BUT …. So are you, are you not? because YOU didn’t look either? You sat around waiting for someone ELSE to prove it to you? So basically is it intelligent to not look for God yourself? Everybody has heard of Hell" FollowerofChrist1955


Personally, I have definitely made a substantial effort in trying to find God. I wouldn't being arguing this point of view if I hadn't. Just for starters I spend many nights ponder which God is correct. I've prayed many times to God. I've sat in church and listened to many sermons, read religious pamphlets, donated to my church, and listened dutifully to what my parents said about religion.

I've watched the skies for signs. I actively looked for God on many occasions. Then, after enough ISIS attacks I decided that I wanted to really make a good effort to stop the Muslim religion. I stumbled upon an atheist named Richard Dawkins. [7] I figured perhaps he knew of a way to halt the terrorist attacks. So, do not claim I have not looked for God. I have dedicated many hours and effort to searching for God and despite my arguments I will continue to look for God.

The role of any scientist is to look for truth. Regardless, of whether the scientist wants to find the truth or not. With so many religions one must find a way to sort out truth from lie. Science seems like a good method. If God exists for all we know God wants us to use science to find God. You could even go so far as I dedicated my life to figure out which religion and God is correct if any.

Now to round 2.

"Evolution is a fabrication and a lie.
2.Evolution can provide not a single physical proof of ever successfully creating an animal, that is alive, breathing and walking upon this planet to this very day, not ONE." FollowerofChrist1955

Insects qualify as animals. [8] Insects have short lifespans and the best animal candidates for evolution. "I told you so,' because there are signs that a new strain of resistant rootworms is emerging" [9].

This is self evident that evolution has allowed the rootworms to become resistant. I would argue science has created an animal via cloning. "On Valentine's Day, 2002, researchers at the College of Veterinary Medicine, Texas A & M proudly announced the birth of CC (Copy Cat), a cloned kitten, developed in partnership with Genetic Savings & Clone." [10].

"If one merely considers that there are 8.7 Million species upon the earth and science insist they came from a microbe .... there should be Millions of transitional fossils in the fossil record?" FollowerofChrist1955

Many events including natural disasters and human civilizations have destroyed many fossils. Also, scientists have limited funds, technology, and energy. Not all intact fossils have been found yet.

"1. Has Science ever searched for the existence of God at all? If not why not?" FollowerofChrist1955

Of course they have, many scientists are believers in God. The idea of scientists not searching for God seems highly implausible. Submarines, aircraft, space ships, telescopes, and many more inventions have surely been used to search for God. A child could buy a telescope and search for God.

"One cannot quote Science with regard to God solely because science has for reasons unknown chosen not to investigate it?" FollowerofChrist1955

This is exactly what science is doing, investigating God. This is what my argument is about. How would Jesus turn water into wine? How is this even possible? Remember humans don't just investigate western religions. How would a middle eastern prophet fly on a winged horse to heaven? How is this possible? Which is more likely to turn water into wine or to fly to heaven on a winged horse?

"There is Nothing IN the whole of science that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Life should exist on the Earth at all? In Fact science has proven BEYOND a reasonable doubt that Life could not have come by any other method BUT CREATION!" FollowerofChrist1955

Although you surely must have the best of intentions this seems like a falsehood to me. There is the multi-verse theory. As I understand there are multiple universes, many of which collapse in on themselves during formation. Our universe somehow survived thus far. At some point inorganic matter formed which eventually triggered a chemical reaction that formed a tiny primeval life form.

That life form asexually reproduced and evolved over many of years into eventually the first humans evolved.

"1. Life has proven beyond all doubt that life can only reproduce through an ovum .... can't reproduce without one." FollowerofChrist1955

Incorrect, asexual reproduction occurs in many lifeforms. Bacteria, protozoa, and so forth.

"5. Medical Science has proven Beyond doubt that life Has Never Been Created without the ovum, and in virtually all cases sperm." FollowerofChrist1955

I'm pretty sure cloning qualifies.

" The animals? They were created as adult creatures too. They were not created as babies, the trees were formed, grasses, flowers lakes, fish fowls, all of it created as fully mature objects and creatures.

You talk of REASON ... so reason, Which DOES sound more plausible?" FollowerofChrist1955

Seems more plausible that the creatures evolved from simpler creatures. I don't see how God could have created fully adult trees and animals. Just for starters trees are incredibly complicated organisms. To create a tree you would need a designer that was even more complicated. I don't see how a simpler creature like a fungi could create a tree. Therefore, for God to create a tree, God must be more complicated than a tree. For God to design a human, God must be more complicated than a human.

"1. That a microbe, managed to create a creature, who managed to stay alive to adulthood without an adult to feed, water or protect it, Then it formed a second creature which luck would have it be a male so it could produce a sperm" FollowerofChrist1955

Microbes reproduce asexually. "In asexual reproduction, one individual produces offspring that are genetically identical to itself. These offspring are produced by mitosis. There are many invertebrates, including sea stars and sea anemones for example" [12].

"it's the only plausible option, the other is the one too far fetched to be real. perhaps why no evidence? Huh?" FollowerofChrist 1955

You are the one without evidence not I. Have you ever seen God? Do you know anyone who has seen God? How do you know they are telling the truth?

"There is no mathmatical way we could have been present 200,000 years or where are the Billions upon Billions of people that would have been produced in that time span?" FollowerofChrist

There were plagues, natural disasters, war, and famine which killed many humans within that time frame.

"The Bible is absolutely true." FollowerofChrist

Many Islamic followers make the same claim. How can you possibly know which religion and God is correct without evidence? Your current tactics aren't working. Maybe you need to look for God in a new way. Perhaps the best place to look for God is on another planet, the depths of the oceans, the Earth's mantle, etc.

I conclude that it is extremely unlikely that God exists, nor heaven, nor hell.



7. http://www.ted.com...
8. http://animalkingdom.net...
9. http://www.nationofchange.org...
10. http://cats.about.com...
11. http://www.astronomy.pomona.edu...'s%20mutliverse.html
12. http://biology.about.com...

Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Sad really I expected more from you than excuses. You flaunted scientific evidence and produced excuses. First you talked about your pathetic search for God, is it truly a wonder you were unsuccessful? God is sovereign, He's not there to entertain you He is there to offer you a way to escape Hell. Something you clearly aren't concerned with. Why would a Holy God show himself to a unrepentant person, and in complete denial of his sins. God is Here to save sinners not the self righteous.

When you seek Him in need of salvation, only then will you find Him, and only a repentant spirit shall succeed all can clearly see you are neither.

next subject:
Pre-existing animals .... precisely what I said science ATTEMPTS to claim. Evolution from one species to another ....not adaption.
not ABLE to create their OWN animal they take one already existing and attempt to put spins on it, in an attempt to pull your attention, that it was already here through no evolutionary process, but simply BIRTHED from another adult.

The silver fox experiment was the same ... they could create every type, and kind of fox .... but after 50 years and multiple generations..... Foxes is what they had. Not a cat or a dog in the group, no NEW species, just foxes.

Your rootworm, CAME from a rootworm, and will produce another rootworm and another excuse.

Cloning animals .... EXCUSES, you sidetrack people with your imagiination, all the while showing you've no understanding of the processes you claim? PRE-EXISTING is NOT CREATING... it copying from what is already here!

now Clone an animal without using another animal or its ovum to create a animal. Then you might have something.

the cloned sheep Dolly was born after 277 eggs were used for SCNT, which created 29 viable embryos. Only three of these embryos survived until birth, and only one survived to adulthood

Playing frankenstein with existing things is NOT evolution! Evolution remains a lie, supported by fabricated nonsense just like your using. You said evidence ... but you don't provide evidence you provide hypothesis, theory, conjecture and call it facts.

Also, scientists have limited funds, technology, and energy. Not all intact fossils have been found yet. ??????

More excuses? Tons of fossils have been preserved ... Darwin said it himself, IF EVOLUTION WAS TRUE .... why is there not transitional fossils everywhere? They have had decades of looking and have found, ziltch, nothing, nada, nothing that they can PROVE is transitional and simply not an extinct species.

You said you had science on your side, and all your giving us is excuses, not evidence .... just thoughts of what YOU call evidence. Let us look at the evidence and evaluate them ourselves thank you very much.

Science is investigating God? Where is that link? no link? more of just words I see. no evidences.

I see your idea of God, is loaded with inabilities, human restrictions, doubts of dieity, Are we beginning to understand WHY God won't have anything to do with you? Are you learning yet? Your not looking for God, your looking for gimicks ... please! You haven't the slightest interest in finding God ... no surprise you can't find Him.

HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM: Although you surely must have the best of intentions this seems like a falsehood to me.

you are the problem, your in your way. Everyone knows can't teach a closed mind anything. Your in denial before you've heard anything. You can't find God, cause your not looking, you not repentant, you don't even acknowledge your sins. But sinner you are and Hell is where your going ....IF ...... IF

but that's another story. Next

That life form asexually reproduced and evolved over many of years into eventually the first humans evolved.
That you believe that is clear ... your gullible, the rest of us would like to see EVIDENCE you spoke of ... the animal created by evolutionary experiments???? The ones not done by things that already existed .... we mean the real ones. Where is the link to the elusive critter?

I mean yes we heard your rhetoric ... now if you would be so kind as to show us the animals born of nothing to become something? No? No links?

Again with the microbes .... animals and man are not microbes .... we never were microbes we were ovums. Same excuses not a single living animal only microbes, bacteria. No evidence of a single animal produced BY MICROBE. need an ovum, and can't make an ovum, it comes from female species only.

Evolution remains a lie. You show no evidences, only opinions, and excuses which is precisely what scientist attempt to do to explain away their inability to show evidence of an event.

Clearly plagues and disasters wiped out Billions upon Billions since there are 7 Billion of us today in only 227 years one needs a high tech calculator to number the dead over 200,000 years, but said plagues have mercifully left US unscathed .... how fortunate ... how convienient .... no proof, nor evidence mind you, merely opinion, conjecture, theories.

I gave you hard facts you give us Fiction, imaginings, Theories ... you promised EVIDENCE, but succeed in giving us excuses, theories, conjectures, and normal life going on adapting characteriscs, NOT BECOMING new species .... same rootworm, even called rootworm, but we are to shout EVOLUTION IN PLAY ....yay .... it's still a rootworm coming from a rootworm?

1790 3,929,214 Beginning of Census 1890 62,947,714 increase of 12,791,931

1800 5,308,483 increase of 1,379,269 1900 75,994,575 increase of 13,046,861

1810 7,289,881 increase of 1,931,39 1910 91,972,266 increase of 15,977,691

1820 9,638,453 increase of 2,398,572 1920 105,710, increase of 13,788,354

1830 12,866,020 increase of 3,227,567 1930 122,775,046 increase of 17,064,426

1840 17,069,453 increase of 4,203,433 1940 131,669,275 increase of 8,894,229

1850 23,191,876 increase of 6,122,423 1950 150,697,361 increase of 19,028,086

1860 31,443,321 increase of 3,251,445 1960 178,464,236 increase of 27,766,875

1870 39,818,449 increase of 3,375,128 1960 179,323,175 corrected 28,625,614

1880 50,155,783 increase of 10,337,334 1970 203,235,298 increase of 23,912,123

Census 323,928,727

From 1790 to 2016 population growth of a time span of 226 years by 319,999,513

According to the scientist your cite … life existed on earth 200,000 years

Civilization as we know it has only been around 6,000 years.

http://www.universetoday.com...

multi-billion people have not been wiped out or there would be dead bodies all over the place, every where you step, but there is not because Earth is not as old as science tries to hand you.

Continue to be obtuse if you wish but give us the evidences you promised, not theoretical reports without PHYSICAL evidences. You keep showing us animals that are already here, you can't claim those, their already here, you claim lifes origins by evolution then show that evolution HAS created an animal, with nothing but microbes, that have grown beyond petri dishes and exists today as living animals, because that's what we are ... we're not bacteria, or microbes, we're living flesh and blood creatures!

No more excuses ... show hard evidence not opinion. I give you the census the time frame, you need only a calculator to surmise the number of beings you claim have been wiped out in 200,000 years of human existence. I and the Bible indicate that we've been here almost 7,000 years not 200,000. Therefore the EVIDENCE highly implies, infers suggests, Sciences numbers are far too high and incorrect, by any stretch of the imagination. It is Mathmatically impossible. It is Evidentially impossible.




Stupidape

Con

Searching for God

I thank my opponent once again for continuing to debate. You asked for evidence, how about Isaac Newton? As you can see he searched for God.

First for searching for God, one part of religious texts is they are often contradictory in nature and it is difficult to tell if the meaning is literal or symbolic. You may claim that searching for God is through salvation, but why not literal? Why not literally search for God in the physical world?

"Sir Isaac Newton mathematically explained the orbits of planets around the sun and the orbits of satellites around their planets. However, in a complex system like the solar system, the different bodies tug at each other all the time and Newton could not understand how such a system could stay stable. Being a very religious man, he confidently asserted that such a system can only stay stable if the hand of God intervenes from time to time to correct the orbits of the planets and satellites in order to keep it stable.

Satisfied with this answer, he spent most of the rest of his life on things like occult studies, looking for hidden messages from God in the bible" [13]

Evolution

As for science being able to create new animals via evolution, that's difficult due to the sheer number of animals that would be needed and how slow evolution is. Scientist have not found a way to dramatically speed up time find these results.

Lots of transitional fossils have been found. "At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving. " [14].

Here's seven theories on how the first microorganism was born. "Life on Earth began more than 3 billion years ago, evolving from the most basic of microbes into a dazzling array of complexity over time. But how did the first organisms on the only known home to life in the universe develop from the primordial soup?" [15].

Population growth

As for population growth it is highly connect to food availability. Farming equipment was not the same in the middle ages as today, nor the same in the middle ages as the bronze age, and so forth. Human procreation rate must have been dramatically lower in prehistory than it is now.

Size and age of universe

You talk about being closed minded. How about how big do you think the universe really is? Did you know that the largest star is VY Canis Majoris and its radius is about 2,000 times that of the sun?[16]. The furthest galaxy is 13.3 billion light years away. [17] The age of the universe is about 13 billion. Now if the galaxy is that complex, imagine how complex God would have to be to have created such a universe. Now which is more likely the Big Bang Theory, Multiverse theory, primordial soup theories, and Darwinism or the Bible? To me it seems the scientific theories are more likely.

Questions to my opponent have you seen God?

Now I ask my opponent have you seen God? Have any family, friends, or neighbors seen God? If so, what did God look like? These same questions for Satan, heaven, hell, and angels. Have you seen Satan? Have you seen an angel? How about Hell or Heaven?

How can you possibly affirm that God exists when you rely exclusively on religious doctrine? How can you possibly hope to prove other faiths incorrect without proof? I reaffirm that the existence of God is extremely improbable. Therefore, as the resolution states "The Biblical Last Days; Are they approaching?" I answer almost certainty not. The chances of God existing is extremely improbable therefore, the chance of the Biblical Lasts Days is also extremely improbable.

Thanks for debating again. Was very interesting to hear a different point of view.

Sources

13. https://www.quora.com...
14. http://www.livescience.com...
15. http://www.livescience.com...
16. http://space.about.com...
17. http://www.space.com...
Debate Round No. 3
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Issac Newton? We were not there to know what Issac Newton actually believed? we'll just let that one pass.

next:

Your statements clearly indicate you are no studier of religious text to have been able to determine truth?

you cited one of the foremost Athiest on the planet, that clearly indicates you don't have any clue who God is, and wouldn't spend the years it takes to get to know Him to find out!

The Bible is written for a specific group of people only they can understand it, and that comes only to those who search for it! Proof of its authenticity lies in no nonbeliever can ever understand it!

Physically searched for Him? you? Just more excuses, and red herrings huh?

You talk of religious texts but you’ve never studied them ….. you search the internet for subjects, instead of picking up a Bible sitting down and reading it from genesis to revelation …. Looking, comparing each scripture, going to referenced scripture, scripture groupings. No? you haven’t and won’t, but you spout authoritative opinions on a subject you’ve never studied …. And you want to talk evidence, something you cannot possibly provide, since you’ve not read the book.

Even a teacher REQUIRES you to READ the book BEFORE you turn in a paper on it ….. Why would you suppose this to be any different.

You expect to learn and discover by osmosis (the process of gradual or unconscious assimilation of ideas, knowledge, etc. ?) Not going to happen, this book you actually have to study.

Your statement-Evolution

As for science being able to create new animals via evolution, that's difficult due to the sheer number of animals that would be needed and how slow evolution is. Scientist have not found a way to dramatically speed up time find these results.

Soooo there IS NO EVIDENCE. That is contradictory with your beginning statement, you claimed reliance on that very thing to use in this debate?

Your premise? Evolution

Evolution provides a solid solution backed with copious evidence of how humans evolved.

yet you have provided none!

Now your telling us THERE IS NO EVIDENCE? Then that effectively kills your sources for debate. You Have no evidence for evolution ….. and you have NOT researched God with any credibility to render judgement.

In conclusion by your own statements:

1: You readily admit that evolution HAS no evidence to support it’s conclusions, therefore it is unreasonabile, illogical, and ill advised to place 100% of your trust on a theory that by your own assessment upon review of scientific literature and data, can provide no evidence to substantiate its thesis nor claims.

2. This logically deduces that you must claim no knowledge of how the origins of Life occurred as there is no scientific ongoing study to research God existence at the present time.

What can be derived from what is evident, provable, observable, and reproduceable?

a. there are 8.7 million species on earth that are alive and living, have the ability to procreate by mating, with a small population which can produce asexually.

b. All creatures share a common link ….. DNA, though the bands vastly differ which is the determining factor as to its species.

c. There are no provable transitional fossils that can be proven not to be simply extinct species at the present time nor in earths past history.

ie...You can’t prove they ARE transitional …. And not merely extinct creatures ie, crocodile skeleton looks like alligator skeleton but it is not an evolved creature, it’s a separate distinct life form!

d. the failure of scientist to successfully create a living animal by its hypothesis, prove beyond a reasonable doubt that life did not begin by microbe, nor bacteria. Therefore the final conclusion is that animal life arrived upon the earth in a manner not known to man at this time. Sadly this is how the situation will remain as science has no intention of reviewing the possibility of an external source, supreme being or deity.

theories – Theories are not facts nor evidence.

As for population growth it is highly connect to food availability.???????

You were provided, hard evidence of the population of the united states from 1790 to present total of 226 years.

Don’t speculate, use a calculator and you will ascertain the truth of the ridiculous notion you suggest?

IF you take the lowest number 3,929,214 with NO growth per 10 year intervals multiplied by 20,000

200,000 divided by 10 year increments = 20,000

Equals a population of 78,584,280,000 Get out of town, no way, not even remotely possible!

That’s taking the lowest population of ONLY the United States not using the grand total of 323,928,727 Actual United States population in those 227 years. Nor the 7 Billion total earth population that exists today.

I think the evidence shows beyond all doubt that it is IMPOSSIBLE for life to have existed on the earth for 200,000 years. I further state that it is emphatically impossible for any life to have existed upon this earth Millions of years for the very same reason …. The earth land mass would be completely filled with animals, insect, seas would be overwhelmed by countless trillions of life forms from elephants to mosquitoes.

There would BE no place for man to stand. Science MUST be wrong, and not just alittle, hugely wrong.

The evidence cannot be denied. These are real statistics not imaginary like the ones your using. They can be verified by US census, and should you wish to check parks and wildlife as well.

In the world today...

Living things There are about 600 species of swallowtail butterfly

But this is only one group of butterflies

There are about 16,000 species of butterfly

But we haven't included the moths!

There are about 165,000 species of butterfly and moth

But this is only one group of insects

There are about 1,000,000 species of known insects

But insects are only one type of arthropod

There are about 1,075,000 species of arthropod

But arthropods are only one type of animal

There are about 1,500,000 species of animal

But animals are only one type of living thing

Now imagine how many there would be IF they existed for Millions of years, I think the evidence is crystal clear … science is WRONG on their side.

As to the creation story of genesis? It does fit the lifes time line, it makes the numbers more realistic in 7000 years as opposed to 4.5 Billion years.

Your statement: Questions to my opponent have you seen God?

My response: Have you seen a baby pigeon, personally? Have you seen bear bones lying in the woods? Have you seen a moose up close? Have you seen a million dollars with your own eyes? Me neither but I KNOW they exist, and so do you!

Stupidape

Con

Last round. I'm going to make a summary of the events. This discussion more or less broke down into creationism versus evolution. My opponent has tried to instill doubt on evolution. I reinforced evolution. I honestly don't even understand why my opponent would spend so much time and effort questioning scientific theories. Ultimately, this discussion has been made many times by more experienced gladiators.

One more note, as mentioned early there are many religions. Many of which have the concept of hell. For me, its a matter of statistics and probability. There are six religions with Hell. Meaning role a six sided dice, you now have a 1/6 chance of going to heaven and a 5/6 chance of going to hell. Furthermore, many religions have different faiths. Meaning even if you happened to role the number to go to heaven, you may have picked the wrong faith. Meaning that's right, you have a less than 1/6 chance of going to heaven if you randomly pick a religion and faith, and more than a 5/6ths chance of going to hell.

Think of the gravity of the situation. That means people who are considered saints of one religion are surely going to hell for choosing the wrong religion. Small children are going to hell because they choose the wrong religion. Yet, how do we know which religion is right? For all we know we are all going to Hades in the afterlife. For how can we conclusively decide upon one religious book against another?

Therefore, a method of figuring out which religion and faith is correct is desperately needed. My best guess is science and logic are the best methods to figuring out the truth.

Once again I thank my opponent for having this debate.

http://www.neatorama.com...
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CaptainScarlet 7 months ago
CaptainScarlet
The last resort of the desperate xtian is to threaten hell. Tedious stuff. Why don't you read what sophisticated xtian Theologians make of the doctrine of hell, before you shoot your mouth off. It is as embarassing to your religion as it is batoops crazy.

It is your mind so twisted and warped by crazy beliefs that makes you think no-one who does not believe as you do can be rational. Carry on reinterpret these fictional tales as you see fit. You are so wrapped up in literalism (apart from when it is inconvenient to you as we can all see), that you miss the cleverness of the gospels and their messages to the reader in the late 1st century and early 2nd century.

Oh and keep celebrating Easter, you never know after 2000 years of failure someone will get one prediction right at least once.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 7 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
CaptainScarlet
talking stupid again I see we are not heavens gate .... be quiet. You'll never uderstand scriptures because your on the wrong side. Read it cover to cover and you will STILL be condemned to Hell for your own ignorance.

Reading you don't understand, seeing you don't perceive. Your mind is dysfunctional and will remain so till death and Hell OR until you find Jesus, whichever comes first!
Posted by CaptainScarlet 7 months ago
CaptainScarlet
Says the man who starts debates arguing that bestiality and homosexuality can in some way be equated and the end of the world is nigh because an earthquake happened in Peru (or anywhere erlse).

Dry your eyes and gow up man, if you cannot live by your ridiculous religion, do not expect people to take you seriously. If you think the end of the world is being heralded by these 'signs', follow the teachings of the fictional Jesus character in the faux Homeric epics of the gospels and give up your worldly possessions. Otherwise your just trolling...which come to think of it....
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
CaptainScarlet ;
See that's what I'm talking about .... just stupid. Literally no thought given to what you say, just some garbage, you spent time looking for, with absolutely NO understanding of what you read, just using it to be antagonist!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Innkeep;
Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
""You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people"s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them."[a]

repentance is still available for you? You can be forgiven!
Posted by CaptainScarlet 8 months ago
CaptainScarlet
If you believe the end of the world is high, stop wasting time here. Give up your worldly possessions and follow the teachings of the Chriust figure in the NT (Matthew 19:21). You shpould have "no thought for the morrow". But you won't because you know its a fraud. You lot love to think you are the special generation that will see some kind of apocolypse. But none of you are ever quite brave enough to follow through are you? Put up or shut up.
Posted by Innkeep 8 months ago
Innkeep
FollowerofChrist1955 has no intentions of debating anyone he uses the feed to proselytize his perverted interpretations of reality and his own faith. Do not feed the angry "Christian" Troll. He is the scum of the christian world and spouts only hate and bigotry, ignore the follies of this pathetic man.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
lord_megatron ;
I'm sorry this is for adults .... no offense is intended, what would the world be without young people... but it's better for the young to observe the Life Debates, rather than actual participation.

You see Con not being a believer IN God, would not subscribe TOO the Biblical end of days at all? So the time frame, would have been irrelevant.
Posted by lord_megatron 8 months ago
lord_megatron
approaching-come near or nearer to (someone or something) in distance or time
source-https://www.google.co.in...
No one can take con as even if it is a 1000 years away, it comes nearer. I suggest you modify the resolution, such as replacing approaching with is near
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
CaptainScarlet;
Normally I would ignore you, and will every time you say something stupid .... BUT there is TRUTH in what you just said, so it is worthy of response.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

The Biblical Last Days; Are they approaching?

The point IS, it WILL ARRIVE .... not that it's going to be here tomorrow, 10 years from now or even 10 decades from now.

Stop and FOCUS on the TRUTH of your statement. IT WILL COME!

That IS the whole point. Your WILLING to spend ETERNITY IN HELL, because God chooses NOT to come in YOUR LIFETIME? For THIS you throw your soul into Hell? Does that even remotely make sense? Your to smart for that. You KNOW that is lunacy ... and yet you battle with me, why? Because I care enough about you to argue with you to save your soul? Is that truly a crime worthy of your scorn?

People LISTEN to you when you speak .... do you hate them so much that you would DOOM THEM to Hell as well, solely because you don't care if YOU go there? What do you want company there?

You SHOULD REMAIN SILENT, if you choose to go to Hell, that IS your right, but don't take others with you ..... jump on the grenade yourself on this one huh? Be the hero on this one ... condemn ONLY yourself .... save the others? Won't you?
No votes have been placed for this debate.