The Instigator
Undeniable-Love
Con (against)
Tied
4 Points
The Contender
Darth_Grievous_42
Pro (for)
Tied
4 Points

The Big Issues

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,383 times Debate No: 4379
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

Undeniable-Love

Con

Someone who is willing to take up this debate will choose the topic. I am in the mood for a debate, but am not sure what it should be about. Any topic in the Big Issues section of every members' profile would be fine (Please, at least choose something I am against, so it won't confuse the debate watchers). Gratitude to my challenger!
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

I will use this first round only to state my stance, so we may treat this as a three round debate, with you beginning the argumentation. We do not disagree on much, but what I've chosen seems to be on open ground. I will be debating that I do not support the United States of America (as my profile states), thus, you will debate that you are for it. I know it is not to your exact specifications, but I think it will suffice. If you disagree then either begin round 2 arguing for a different topic, or we can drop the debate entirely. Best of Luck.
Debate Round No. 1
Undeniable-Love

Con

Despite heavy encouragement from a friend of mine, I will be slightly more gracious and allow my opponent some breathing room.

You say in your stance you are against the United States of America. Because I prefer to be thorough with my debates, I will not begin the debate here due to the fact that I would be forced to assume something.

Let me explain.

One can read many things into the phrase, "I support the United States of America." This is precisely why I didn't answer the question on my profile. My personal position is that I support the ideals upon which America was originally founded, however I do not support our government. I believe it is the people and the ideals which make the country, not who rules it. (Yes, I believe the government is more of a dictatorship than a democracy.)

Anyway, when attempting to interpret 'I support the USA', I find myself confused. One could say they support the states themselves, thinking how wonderful it is they can work together so well yet still be individual. You could also read it as supporting the government, the president, senators... basically the whole system. Then there's the original ideals upon which America was founded, the people of America, America's actions in war, etc...

My point? Before we can debate this subject, we need to clarify what it means to support the United States of America.

Originally, I was going to start my debate here, under the assumption that you meant the government, but when I started thinking I figured I could do one of three things. 1) I could argue under the assumption that you meant the government in place of USA, 2) I could mess with you by saying something along the lines of supporting the country itself, with all of it's people and ideals, or 3) I could do what I'm doing now, and clarify the topic before beginning.

So, once again delaying the start of the debate, I would like to understand what it is we're debating here.

Why don't we do that in the following rounds, and then abandon any leftovers and start a fresh debate with a clearer understanding of the topic. If you simply want to abandon this debate and all of the complications, I don't blame you. I just hope no one votes on this, because it'll screw with our win percentages.

Thank you again for accepting this debate in the first place, and I appreciate your gesture by allowing me to start it in this round, even though I never actually got that far. Many would jump on the opportunity to have the first and last word.

Much obliged.

~Undeniable-Love
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

Yes, I can see how this might be misconstruded. Thank you for allowing me to clarify.

Rather than arguing on whether I support the US, could we possibly switch the argument and debate on whether it is a good or bad thing? Bringing the 'self' factor brings up an annoying argument "How can we prove you actually DO support the US? Maybe your lying". The point being we cannot prove a persons own intent.

Therefore the premise for Pro would be:

The United States of America is more Good than Bad

thus the polar opposite for Con being:

The United States of America is more Bad than Good.

Bad meaning:
having undesirable or negative qualities, characterized by wickedness or immorality, that which is below standard or expectations as of ethics or decency

and Good meaning:
having desirable or positive qualities especially those suitable for a thing specified, beneficial, promoting or enhancing well-being, of moral excellence

[All definitions from princeton.edu]

Or something of the like. Now we would be arguing on actual qualities of the States rather than personal belief. Do you find this agreeable?
Debate Round No. 2
Undeniable-Love

Con

Agreed.

Good luck!

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Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

Ah, good.

Readers, please refrain from voting, or if you do feel some wild compulsion to do so, make it so that we are tied. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
Undeniable-Love

Con

Undeniable-Love forfeited this round.
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

Readers, please refrain from voting, or if you do feel some wild compulsion to do so, make it so that we are tied. The real debate on this topic will proceed shortly. Thank You. Darth_Grievous_42 out.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Undeniable-Love 8 years ago
Undeniable-Love
I hate it when they give us standards.
Posted by Undeniable-Love 8 years ago
Undeniable-Love
I forgot to say this, but I will still argue on supporting the USA, whatever was meant by that. If it's the government, then I have a feeling I'm going to need more than three days to find ANYTHING actually good about the government, since everything about it positive can bee seen under a negative light. Maybe it would be easier if you started...

Ah, well, I'm not one to complain.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by burningpuppies101 8 years ago
burningpuppies101
Undeniable-LoveDarth_Grievous_42Tied
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Total points awarded:41 
Vote Placed by Darth_Grievous_42 8 years ago
Darth_Grievous_42
Undeniable-LoveDarth_Grievous_42Tied
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Total points awarded:03