The Instigator
kenicks
Pro (for)
Tied
25 Points
The Contender
wingnut2280
Con (against)
Tied
25 Points

The Boston Celtics will win the NBA finals.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,579 times Debate No: 1982
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (14)

 

kenicks

Pro

The Boston Celtics have been the biggest turnaround in NBA history in recent years. After a dismal 24-58 season, and a disappointing 5th pick in the upcoming NBA draft, everyone seemed to have lost faith in Boston-except for one man, fearless GM Danny Ainge. June 28th rolled around, and after selecting Florida's standout forward Jeff Green, Ainge shipped him off to Seattle along with Delonte West and Wally Szczerbiak, for 7-time All-Star and 3 Point Specialist, Ray Allen, and the 35th pick in the draft, where Boston selected LSU Standout "Big Baby" Glen Davis. Even then, Boston was considered to be a contender in the Eastern Conference. A month and 3 days later, without breaking a sweat, Ainge pulled off the largest trade in NBA history for a single player, shipping off Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Theo Ratliff, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick, and a previously obtained first round pick in 2006 to the Minnesota Timberwolves, for 6 foot 11 behemoth Kevin Garnett. Even then, even after Ainge had built around the team with veteran players such as Eddie House and James Posey, even then sportswriters seemed to question the potential of Boston's new Big 3. Then came Friday, November 2nd, 2007, and the doubters were silenced. The C's steamrolled over the Washington Wizards in TD Banknorth Garden by the score of 103-83. KG got a double-double, and Pierce and Allen combined for 45 points. Boston went on to win their next 8 games, starting the season at 9-0. As of January 19th, 2008, the C's are 32-6, with an 18-3 record at home, a 14-3 on the road, 9-0 in their division, 21-6 in the Eastern Conference, and 11-0-yes, 11-0, undefeated, against the Western Conference. They have a comfortable lead at the top of the Eastern Conference standings, with the #2 ranked Detriot Pistons trailing them by 4 games. In the Western Conference, they stack up with their #1 contender, the Phoenix Suns, with a lead of 5 games. All in all, the Big 3 is the formula for championships, and for many to come. See anyone else in the NBA with a Big 3 like KG, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce, with this kind of bond, this kind of chemistry, this kind of talent? I dont think so.
wingnut2280

Con

While records do indicate that Boston is a great team. I don't think they will make it out of the East, let alone win an NBA title.

Yes, they are a turnaround team. Yes, they have the best record. But, none of this is reason to believe that they will win.

First, their record is falsely lofty. There early season schedule was loaded with teams like Charlotte, Miami, and the Knicks. There division is one of the easiest in the league as well. The reason their record is better than the Suns is because the West is heads and shoulders harder than the East. The Celtics have yet to play anyone significant in the West.

While their dominance against these teams early was apparent, the Celtics spent last week losing to those Wizards twice in two days and losing to the lowly Charlotte Bobcats.

While the have made a great turnaround and their potential is there, the Celtics have had an easy schedule, split with the Pistons, and have showed weakness lately.
Debate Round No. 1
kenicks

Pro

Yes, wingnut2280, the Western Conference is hyped up to be, as you said, "Head and shoulders harder" than the Eastern Conference. But the Celtics, as I had stated earlier, have an undefeated record so far against the Western Conference, thus likely predicting the dominance they shall bring to their Western challenger in the NBA finals.

While the Celtics' division may not be the toughest collaboration of teams to face up against, those teams will not be a large factor against them in the playoffs, as they will stack up against tougher teams, such as the Detriot Pistons and Washigton Wizards.

Speaking of the Washington Wizards, yes, they gave the Celtics back-to-back losses. And so far, they have been the only team in the league to somewhat crack leaks in Boston's well-oiled machine. However, it's going to take more than just one team to stop the C's.

So the C's have their occasional off day. Their performance, however, when they're not having an off day, is phenomenal. The Celtics have no room for mediocrety-in their own team and in others.
wingnut2280

Con

First, about the West. The West IS BETTER. The west teams have dominated the inter-conference meetings during the regular season and the finals for the years reaching back to the Bulls dynasty. The Celts look good against the West because they haven't played any of the good teams yet. The best team they have played in the West is the Lakers, who are struggling to get into playoff contention. This means they are unproven against difficult opponents. Based on their struggles with inferior teams like the Wizards, we can suppose that the C's would struggle with lofty teams like the Mavs.

You miss the divisional argument. I'm saying that the terrible division the C's play in makes their record look more bloated than it is. Its easy to have a great record against terrible teams and the C's are surrounded by them.

On the contrary, it takes only one team to send you home. Chances are the C's are going to meet the Wizards in the playoffs. Based on what we have seen this season, that means the C's wouldn't even reach the finals.

The Celtics may be a good team, but they have split with Detroit and have a losing record against the Wizards, meaning that they could not even reach the finals. If they do, Boston will face teams that they haven't seen before, like Dallas and Phoenix. The playoffs are four rounds deep and it looks like the Celtics will struggle in every one. Remember how unbeatable the Mavs were supposed to be last year, with their awesome record? They lost in the first round to the eigth seed. It looks like Boston is taking a page out of their book. They have a weak schedule and teams are starting to figure them out, as we saw last week.
Debate Round No. 2
kenicks

Pro

Wingnut, I'd like to start off first with your closing comment concerning that "teams are starting to figure them (the Celtics) out, as we saw last week." Yes, the Celtics lost back to back games against the Wizards. Maybe the Wizards have figured out the Celtics gameplan to a point. Since then it seems to only be Washington who have begun to "figure them out", as since then they have won 3 straight games, each on an average of 17.6 points, starting it off by defeating the Portland Trail Blazers, who have been the hottest team in basketball in recent weeks. Going back to Washington seemingly opening a hole in Boston's gameplan, The C's and the Wiz don't meet again until April 9th. By then, gameplans can be changed. If Doc Rivers or any of Boston's coaching staff saw problems, they would be abruptly fixed. No cause for alarm yet.

Let's take a look at Boston's six losses; only one has come by a margin in double digits, a 12 point loss to Charlotte. Boston loses a game on an average of 6.6 points. This shows that when the Celtics struggle, they keep their struggles tight and to the end. The Celtics never let up nor give up, not until the final buzzer sounds. With that attitude and momentum carrying into the emotion-filled postseason, its going to take a lot to deny a team like the Celtics.

Furthermore, the Celtics team chemistry is impeccable. Let's take a look at the NBA Finals last year; the superior play of Cleveland Cavaliers superstar LeBron James against the combined forces of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, and Michael Finley. Sure, the Cavaliers had other players. But when you look deep down into it, LeBron made up every vital organ of that team, right down from the brain to the kidneys. Boston not only has three all stars in their starting lineup, but young and veteran players alike that are on the same page, a telekinetic connection shared in each of their minds.

Each of the Celtics players is a key one, and when each and every key comes together as one giant key, it opens the door to the NBA Finals, and, 4-7 games later, an NBA Championship.
wingnut2280

Con

You have failed to respond to any of my arguments about other teams or the playoffs themselves. Every round I get arguments about how great the Celtics are. I realize your a big fan, but the fact is that any team can look good against terrible teams. You haven't responded to the fact that the Celtics schedule is soft. The fact that the Celtics are losing close games is a BAD thing. Why should a supposedly great team be losing nailbitiers to cellar-dwellars?

The Celtics split with the Pistons and have had trouble with other teams in the East, as you mentioned. We are only half way through the season and the C's are starting to struggle against the few good teams that they play. At this point, claiming Boston as the heir-apparent to the championship is a bit lofty as they are struggling to beat their own inferior conference.

In the event they get out of the East, Boston hasn't played the great teams of the better West. If you are starting to struggle against teams like Charlotte, how do you claim to be able to beat teams like Phoenix? The fact is, Boston's record is due to their soft schedule. They are certainly a good team. But, as they start to show weakness in their own conference, how can they possibly win the whole thing?
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by kenicks 8 years ago
kenicks
Well, well, well. Take that, wingnut.
Posted by Dapperdan2007 9 years ago
Dapperdan2007
Just to make a point against the wizards beating celtics argument -- the Timberwolves (have one of the two worst records in the NBA) have beaten the Phoenix Suns 2 out of 3 times this year. I guess the Suns just completely suck and probably won't even make them playoffs (clearly this is not true, they have one of the best records in the entire western conference).
Posted by johnrasheed 9 years ago
johnrasheed
i dont think that they will win because they dont have enough chemistry
Posted by ophs236 9 years ago
ophs236
both of yal dnt hav any since
Posted by kenicks 9 years ago
kenicks
With all due respect to wingnut, I appreciate dapperdan for taking my side. I would love to debate with you sometime.
Posted by Dapperdan2007 9 years ago
Dapperdan2007
"I'm just saying a good record against crappy teams doesn't make you a great team. I can beat the Knicks a bunch of times and have a 17-2 record."

It's not just a 'good record', it's the best in the league, and puts them on pace for about 70 wins. It's not just against 'crappy teams'. They haven't played the Spurs, Suns, and Mavericks, that's it. Good records are based on beating the teams you're supposed to beat, yet you still damn them for doing that -- damned if you do, damned if you don't. The fact is their doing everything they're expected to, and not just with your run of the mill 5-10 point victories, but with blowouts. The argument against the wizards is also nullified by the past history of records of teams in the regular season not always meaning much in the playoffs. Cleveland beat the Spurs 3 out of 4 in the regular season last year, and got swept in the finals.
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
I'm just saying a good record against crappy teams doesn't make you a great team. I can beat the Knicks a bunch of times and have a 17-2 record.
Posted by Dapperdan2007 9 years ago
Dapperdan2007
I hope wingnut doesn't actually believe what he's saying. Apparently a team needs to go undefeated for him to consider them half-decent. (slight hyperbole)
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
I can't say with certainty that they will win , I hope they do and there is a good possibility.I'm rooting for 3 parades in Boston in a row .. Red Sox , Patriots and Celtics :) I would love it :)
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Vote Placed by NewBoy 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by newguy 7 years ago
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