The CHICKEN before the EGG?
| Started: | 5/15/2012 | Category: | Philosophy |
| Updated: | 1 year ago | Status: | Post Voting Period |
| Viewed: | 747 times | Debate No: | 23629 |
|
In this intelligibly simple argument, all you have to do is to determine whether the chicken or the egg came first. Of course I'm AGAINST the fact that the egg was created BEFORE the chicken.
My beliefs for this particular concept, and my argument is as follows: 1) It's been scientifically proven. 2) Scientists discovered a protein found only in a chicken's ovaries that is necessary for the formation of the egg. 3) Because of this, there is no other way the egg could've been created. It will be sort of hard to debate on a topic that has been proven by science, but I really hope you consider debating with me. Greetings, Pro. My opponent insinuates that the answer to this age-old question has been proven by science and indeed it has. However, since is in support of my position that the egg in fact came before the chicken. Living things evolve through changes in their DNA, though the genetic material of an animal can ONLY change as a zygote. Zygotes are the first cells of an organism. A zygote is the original cell that divides to eventually produce all of the cells that make up the entire organism. As such, it follows that the organism we have come to know as 'chicken' must have had all of the traits applicable to chickens as a zygote. Scientists have concluded that chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA, or by mutations to the DNA that produced the zygote [1]. In other words, prior to the first zygote that contained chicken DNA, all that existed were two non-chickens whose DNA morphed into the DNA that makes up chickens. Therefore, in order for a chicken to exist, it must have had chicken DNA as a zygote inside of the egg. Two non-chickens created the first chicken DNA (zygote), while the first chicken must have evolved from a zygote that already had chicken DNA (inside of an egg). Ergo the egg came before the chicken. Thank you and good luck. [1] http://science.howstuffworks.com... |
![]() |
|
My opponent’s last statement reads that two non chickens created the egg. She claims that a genetic material of an animal can only change as a zygote, and in this case, results in the creation of the chicken. However, this has already been scientifically disapproved by English researchers. Using state of the art technology, they were able to find the key to the once unsolvable riddle: “The chicken, or the egg?” As CNN writes: "Freeman and his team, which included colleagues from the University of Warwick, were researching a protein found in eggshells called ovocledidin-17. ... Using Britain's national supercomputer, a machine dubbed HECToR based in Edinburgh, Scotland, they were able to simulate the process of bio mineralization, or the production of minerals or solid materials inside organisms. ... They also found that the egg can't be produced without the protein ovocledidin-17 in the chickens' ovaries, so that means that the chicken must have come first."[1] My opponents’ claim fails to prove the fact that there are essential proteins found in a non chicken. MSNBC says it more bluntly: "The scientists found that a protein found only in a chicken's ovaries is necessary for the formation of the egg, according to the paper Wednesday. The egg can therefore only exist if it has been created inside a chicken."[2]
-- Rebuttal -- My opponent claims that my explanation of why the egg came before the chicken has "already been scientifically disproven by English researchers." He then proceeds to copy and paste an excerpt from the CNN article that he claims dismantles my case. However, Pro completely makes this "scientific disapproval" up -- the article NEVER says that the chicken necessarily came before the egg. As a matter of fact, the article Pro cites specifically claims that the assertion that the chicken came first has been CHALLENGED. "Researchers in Britain have been credited with cracking the age-old conundrum about the chicken and the egg. But are they right? ... Press headlines proclaimed the answer was the chicken ... However, one of the paper's lead authors, Colin Freeman, from the University of Sheffield in northern England, told CNN that the result was not as conclusive as it seemed." http://articles.cnn.com... In other words, my opponent blatantly lied in asserting that his article claims that it has been "scientifically proven" that the chicken came before the egg. Instead, the article concludes by reiterating the fact that there is still an ongoing debate. In that case, my opponent is responsible for negating the scientific explanation I have stated in the last round which so far he has not. Pro writes, "My opponents' claim fails to prove the fact that there are essential proteins found in a non chicken." This has no bearing on my case. I never 'failed to prove' anything because this was never an element of my argument, but does not negate my case anyway - nor does it establish any relevant point to Pro's case. In fact, BOTH websites my opponent cites poke fun at the idea that the chicken must have come first as Pro asserts. If you watch the video from the second website, host Brian Williams says "Their conclusion, by the way, the formation of an egg is only possible with a protein found in a chicken's ovaries, thus the chicken must have come first... No word yet from the UK on where the chicken came from." In other words, Williams is poking fun at the fact that this discovery does not remotely answer the question (of where the chicken came from) and in fact reiterates MY case - that the chicken must have evolved from somewhere, and of course, evolution as I've explained in the last round posits exactly how two of 'somethings' evolve into something else. In other words, two non-chickens evolved to form the chicken. The egg (zygote) came first. Pro's conclusion does not even make sense: "So for the chicken to have some second, another non chicken type bird must have had similar proteins in its ovaries to then create the egg well, and this was not found in other animals, hence the chicken obviously needed to come first." Okay, so if the chicken must have come first, then how was the chicken created? Obviously this doesn't make sense. Anyone who understands evolution can see that. So again, Pro must challenge that. He cannot say "science has proven" otherwise because BOTH of my opponent's sources negate the idea that his side has been scientifically proven. |
![]() |
|
UnbiasedSymmetry forfeited this round.
Despite being online, my opponent has chosen to forfeit the last round. Let's re-cap the debate and see why. In Round 1 I gave an explanation for my case: Two non-chickens created the first chicken DNA (zygote), while the first chicken must have evolved from a zygote that already had chicken DNA (inside of an egg). Ergo the egg came before the chicken. Pro never denied this evolutionary fact, so for the purpose of this debate it must stand as true. Pro's sole argument: A chicken egg cannot be produced without the protein ovocledidin-17 in the chickens' ovaries, so the chicken must have come first because this protein is only found in a chicken's ovaries. Of course you'll notice that this objection does not remotely disprove my case. It never explains how the first chicken egg was created. This is why Pro has lost the debate. It does not challenge the fact that the first chicken must have evolved from a zygote of two non-chickens that already had chicken DNA - inside of an egg. Therefore, the egg came first. You'll note that Pro (a) lied about the claims of his sources and (b) forfeited the last round, meaning he should lose points for Conduct. If anyone votes Sources points in a tie, it proves that people are voting based on the number of sources one uses rather than the quality of sources used. After all, my opponent not only lied about what his sources said but also posted sources that helped prove MY side. I believe I have won both of these points as well as Arguments. Thank you. |
![]() |
| UnbiasedSymmetry | Danielle | Tied | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agreed with before the debate: | - | ![]() | - | 0 points |
| Agreed with after the debate: | - | ![]() | - | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | ![]() | - | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | - | ![]() | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | - | - | ![]() | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | - | ![]() | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 0 | 1 |
| UnbiasedSymmetry | Danielle | Tied | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agreed with before the debate: | - | - | ![]() | 0 points |
| Agreed with after the debate: | - | - | ![]() | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | ![]() | - | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | - | ![]() | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | - | ![]() | - | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | - | ![]() | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 0 | 4 |
| UnbiasedSymmetry | Danielle | Tied | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agreed with before the debate: | - | ![]() | - | 0 points |
| Agreed with after the debate: | - | ![]() | - | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | ![]() | - | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | - | ![]() | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | - | ![]() | - | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | - | ![]() | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 0 | 4 |
















Perhaps I can neutralize the hint by offering a balancing hint.
Suppose Pro is right about the egg-producing chemical unique to chickens.
Start with the species of birds that were almost-but-not-quite chickens, and which produced eggs containing mutant offspring known as "chickens". If the parent-species became extinct sometime afterward, then the fact that chickens have a unique chemical becomes easily explained.
And such extinctions are quite common; none of our own ancestor-species are still alive, for example.
More likely it would be the bird evolves the ability to lay the egg.
Course, I'm a creationist, so I get the easy answer. :)