The Chicago Bulls Will Be the 2012 NBA Champions
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Apollo.11
| Started: | 3/27/2012 | Category: | Sports |
| Updated: | 1 year ago | Status: | Post Voting Period |
| Viewed: | 2,300 times | Debate No: | 22311 |
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (26)
Votes (1)
 Pro 1. No semantics 2. 8000 character limit 3. Arguments cannot flow into the comment sections during or after the debate. Structure: First Round: Acceptance. Defintions. State whcih team you will be arguing for. Second Round: Arguments/Rebuttals Third Round: Rebuttals/Defenses Opponnent must argue that another team (must pick one other than the Bulls) will win.   Con Definitions: NBA: National Basketball Association. Champions: The Team That Wins The Championship. Will Be: Going to be. So let's do this. |
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Pro My Case: 1. Coach [3] Tom Thibadeau is an incredible coach. He had an a incredible record last season and this season became the fastest coach t reach a 100 wins. 2. Rebounds The Bulls lead the NBA in rebounds per game. 3. Points allowed The Bulls have the second best defense in the NBA, a crucial part to any NBA team. 4. Assists 4th in the league in assists, just one aspect of their cohesive offense. 5. Derrick Rose [4] Perhaps one of the best players in the NBA. Rookie of the year last year, Rose's average 23 points a game has led the Bulls to victories. BUt even without Rose, the team is still able to pull off clear wins 6. Rest of Team [5] Luol Deng (16 PPG) Carlos Boozer (16 PPG) Derrick Rose (23) C.J. Watson (12 PPG) Richard Hamilton (11 PPG) etc. The team has depth, something Miami lacks. Comparison: [1], [2] 1. Rebounds per game: Bulls: 1st Miami: 18th 2. Points allowed (least): Bulls: 2nd Miami: 9th 3. Assists: Bulls: 4th Miami: 17th 4. Average win margin: Bulls: 8.6 pts Miami: 7.3 5. Record: Bulls: 41 wins, 11 losses Miami: 36 wins, 13 losses 6. Win Percentage*: Bulls: 79% Miami: 74% *Despite having played 3 more games than Miami and having a tougher schedule. Sources: 1. http://espn.go.com... 2. http://espn.go.com... 3. http://espn.go.com... 4. http://blogs.bulls.com... 5. http://www.nba.com... Con Let's compare the two coaches and look at who really is the best coach. Erik Spoelstra: Erik's record is of coaching is 185 Wins and 109 Losses. (Currently At 3/31/2012) However, Erik may be the toughest coach yet. He led a team with only 1 star to a 7 game series while being 5th seed in the playoffs. Overall, I think that Erik is a very good coach and if compared to Tom, he has more experience and toughness while the other categories are basically the same. Tom Thibodeau: Tom's record of coaching is 104 Wins and 31 Losses. (Currently At 3/31/2012) I will not deny that Tom is a very good coach and you're facts are totally true but if you consider that period before the Big Three when Erik was coaching, the Miami Heat was a disaster. The Chicago Bulls had already Derrick Rose, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng.The Miami Heat had cap space but had no other "All-Star" players except Dwayne Wade. Erik was able to lead them to a 7 game series with the Atlanta Hawks and a 5 game series with the Boston Celtics. So, I'm going to say Erik is a much tougher and experienced coach under their separate circumstances which means Miami Heat wins this round. Rebounds: I give you that. The Chicago Bulls are good at rebounding. Chicago is 1st place while Miami is 20th place. Chicago killed Miami in this category. Points: Miami Heat has the 3rd most points in the NBA while the Chicago Bulls are tied for 11th. This is pretty bad for the Chicago Bulls so Miami takes home this round. Points Allowed: This was epic. Chicago Bulls were 2nd while Miami Heat was 9. Chicago easily took this down. Assists: Chicago Bulls did very well in this category. They got 4th while Miami got 17th. Chicago outduels Miami in assists. Field Goal Percentage: Miami Heat is the 1st while Chicago is tied for 5th. Miami gets this category. Derrick Rose: While he is a great player with Carlos Boozer and Luol Deng, they are sadly not the equal of LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh. The Big Three have more experience, more talent, and more effective. Therefore this case makes the Miami Heat have a better outlook. Miami Heat: LeBron James: 26 points. Dwayne Wade: 23 points. Chris Bosh: 18 points. Mario Chalmers: 10 points. So it seems that the Chicago Bulls are better at rebounds, points allowed, and assists while the Miami Heat has a better coach, better at scoring, a better field goal percentage, a better "Big Three" and overall a better team. These are the reasons that Miami Heat has more of a chance to win than the Chicago Bulls. Also the regular season is much different from the playoffs. Last year, the Miami Heat had the best record and everyone expected them to win but they didn't. Therefore the regular season wins don't count for anything. Sources: http://www.nba.com... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://espn.go.com... http://www.nba.com... http://www.nba.com... |
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Pro Dropped/Conceded Arguments: 1. Rebounds 2. Points Allowed (fewest) 3. Assists 4. WIN MARGIN. 5. Team depth 6. Record 7. Win Percentage 8. Schedule Toughness Defenses: 1. Coaching Let's just compare their records: Tom (Bulls): 104-31 77% win percentage 62.7% win percentage
Bull's coaching is clearly better when it comes to results.
My opponent talks about coaching from last season. Tom Thimboeau was the 2011 COACH OF THE YEAR! This destroys his argument. He was also a the coach for the EAST in the 2012 All-Start Game.
1. Points Scored This statistic is not relevant or indicative of how good a team is.
For example: Denver is 2nd with an average of 103 points a game. But their opponents average 102 points a game, so this statistic alone does not make them better.
The relevant statistic is win margin. This shows how much they beat their opponents by. Chicago beats Miami in this area. Sadly, my opponent dropped this point.
2. Field Goal Percentage Again, this statistic alone is not relevant (see above). One must also take into account the average opponent's percentage. The Bulls defense is better than Miami, in fact, that they are 3rd in the League in defense %. Miami is 5th. In 3 point %, Chicago is 4th, Miami is 5th. Defensively, Chicago has the 7th best 3-pointer defense. Miami is 27th!
3. Big Three Chicago has 6 players that average over 10 PPG. Miami only has 3. Chicago has more depth, as I showed last round.
"The Big Three have more experience, more talent, and more effective." This is unsubstantiated. Deng, Hammilton, etc. have all played in the NBA longer than the Big Three. Obviously they are not more effective as their record is worse and are statistically inferior in almost every category. Conclusion:
Let's see who is better in all of the following categories:
1. Win Record:Chicago
2. Coach's Record: Chicago
3. Rebounds: Chicago
4. Assists: Chicago
5. Win Margin: Chicago
6. Points allowed (fewest): Chicago
7. Win percentage: Chicago
8. Defense (Field Goals): Chicago
9. Defense (3-pointers): Chicago
10. Field Goal Percentage: Miami
11. 3-point percentage: Chicago
12. Players averaging over 10 PPG: Chicago
13. Defense (opponent assists per game): Chicago
14. Rebound Margin: Chicago
Miami: 1/14 Sources: 1. http://espn.go.com...... 2. http://espn.go.com...... 3. http://espn.go.com...... 4. http://blogs.bulls.com...... 6. http://www.nba.com...... Con 1. My opponent goes on to ignore all of my arguments on coaching and instead says that his coach was the Coach of the Year and the Coach for the East in the 2012 argument. I would say that those arguments prove nothing since Erik had to coach two years when the Miami Heat ONLY had Dwayne Wade as a star. He led them to a 5th seed and a 7 game 1st round with the Atlanta Hawks while being 5th seed again and a 5 game 1st round with the Boston Celtics. That's why he's a much tougher coach. Under much harder circumstances, he prevailed. Awards don't refute my points. Just because he won two awards means nothing as awards can be very biased such as the MVP award. Is Steve Nash really better than Kobe Bryant? Biased awards and a better win record mean nothing against much tougher circumstances, experience, and leadership for the first two years for a team with lack of superstars. 2. My opponent thinks that points being scored is less important than assists, points allowed, etc. Points scored is one of the most important factors of the game. Also I didn't drop anything. I categorized each topic (an analysis) and found that Miami Heat won more than the Chicago Bulls. My opponent simply ignores my important analysis and calls them "Dropped/Conceded Arguments". That is simply wrong. Also my opponent ignores the Field Goal Percentage. Field goal percentage is a huge thing and is one of the major things in basketball. 3. My opponent ignores what I give. Chicago has 6 players and the Miami Heat has 5 players. Stop ignoring my arguments. If you look at the efficiency rating of all 5 players, they beat the efficiency rating of the 6 players for the Bulls. Also they have more talent and experience as all of the years with those 5 players beats the Chicago Bulls. Now here is the accurate analysis: 1. Coach Toughness: Miami 2. Coach Experience: Miami 3. Rebounds: Chicago 4. Assists: Chicago 5. Points Scored: Miami 6. Points Allowed: Chicago 7. Field Goal Percentage: Miami 8. Talent: Miami 9. Experience: Miami 10. Big Three: Miami 11. Rest Of Team: Chicago 12. Defense: Chicago So let's see my accurate analysis which minuses the unimportant and irrelevant things that won't matter in the championship run and are not any major factors that will help them get to the championships and win. The Miami Heat wins 7-5 and that's how they're going to win the championship. I have taken out everything that is extremely unimportant to the championship run and all the things that are absolutely irrelevant. Vote for Con. Sources: http://www.nba.com... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://en.wikipedia.org... http://espn.go.com... http://www.nba.com... http://www.nba.com... http://www.nba.com... |
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Contra 1 year ago
| Apollo.11 | Viper-King | Tied | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agreed with before the debate: | - | - |  | 0 points |
| Agreed with after the debate: | - | - | | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | - | | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | - | | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | | - | - | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | - | | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 3 | 0 |
Reasons for voting decision: In Round 3, PRO has a strong cases when he shows the results of the Chicago Bulls team as a whole. CON had generally weaker arguments, although they were not considered by my standards bad.
By the way, the last time the Bulls played the heat, the bulls won.
FROM DOWN 16 TO UP 12!!!! Need I say more?
Heat are in a mini-slump now, but as long as everyone is healthy in the playoffs they'll be a top 3 team. I expect them to play with a vengeance.
And the Mavs are the masters of the comeback. Take today for example, from down 16 to down 3 in the second quarter.
Lol if the Miami Heat get beat I'll be happy either way :)