The Instigator
Pro (for)
6 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
3 Points

The Christian Bible does not promote evil

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/6/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 542 times Debate No: 61351
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)




By the Christian Bible, I mean the standard 66 books.
Round 1 is acceptance. All other rounds will be arguments and rebuttal. BoP is shared.


first off god commands genocide multiple times in the bible.

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and goat". samuel 15:3

"And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain". Deuteronomy 2:34

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and goat, with the edge of the sword". Joshua 6:21

"So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded". Joshua 10:40

"And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them". Deuteronomy 7:2

this is condoning evil acts because god in the bible ordered it and the soldiers who did it were considered righteous and favored in the eyes of god.
god also condones murder.

"You should not let a sorceress live".Exodus 22:17

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."Leviticus 20:13

"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death". Exodus 21:15

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death". Leviticus 20:10

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death". Leviticus 21:9

passages such as these cannot be regarded as anything but evil if the bible contains things like god ordered genocide and murder for witches, gays, kids who strike their parents etc its safe to say evil is condoned in the bible.
Debate Round No. 1


First, I'd like to point out that these commands were limited to a time and place. In order for Israel to be a nation, they needed laws to live by. It is agreed upon almost unanimously among Christians and Jews that some of those rules applied only to the nation, while others are moral. Not all of the rules apply today [1].
Second, you assume the genocide is always evil. That may not be the case.

We have the example of Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham pleaded with G-d not to destroy them if he could find even 10 righteous people. Obviously, according to the Bible, he could not. you can read in chapter 19 how the men of Sodom saw Lot had male visitors, and they pressed Lot to give them the visitors so they could rape them. The men of Sodom appear to be serial rapists. According to a long standing poll, people on this website agree that serial rapists should get the death penalty [2]. So we have at least once case where genocide in the Bible would be agreed upon by the DDO community as justified, assuming they were as bad as described in the scripture.
Genesis 18:30-33King James Version (KJV)
30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place. 18%3A30-33

Other genocides included killing off people who were practicing very evil religions. Worship of Molech was popular in the region, and it included burning your first born alive as a sacrifice to Molech [2]. Israel is warned that if they do not destroy the people, they they will eventually end up following such abominable practices. The scriptures also say that happened when Israel failed to destroy the people as commanded. This wasn't genocide commanded for the sake of hatred or Hebrew superiority. In fact, the scriptures explicitly say so in Deuteronomy 9:4 [3]. The Bible isn't condoning murder. It is condoning capital punishment, which is a debatably moral practice.

As I previously pointed out, the issues mentioned back then are not equivalent to the same issues today due to differences in culture and technology. For example, there was no such thing as "safe sex" back then. Both male homosexual acts and being promiscuous lead to the spread of sexually transmitted infections (STI)s. There was no treatment for them or their symptoms in the time. Those behaviors lead to life time of suffering for many people, while heterosexual monogamy would eliminate STIs for all practical purposes. The purpose of the laws here can be taken to prevent terrible diseases from plaguing Israel. Israel is promised that if they keep these laws, they will not be plagued by the diseases of the nations around them. This is an interesting correlation. I should also point out that much of the law deals with cleanliness and disease prevention. There are even rules about cleaning mold out of a house, and destroying the house if the mold cannot be controlled.

The word translated "witch" in the KJV doesn't translate well into English. Other versions render it as "practices sorcery" [4]. In the Babylonian context, a sorcerer could use magic to injure other people. These are people who were believed to consort with demons. If demons exist, and someone was consorting with them, should these people get the death penalty? Arguably so.

In contrast, the scriptures are full of good morals about taking care of people who would have trouble taking care of themselves [6]. If we revisit the previous statements about differentiating between moral laws and national laws, we can consider the passage Romans 13:1-5. Rabbi Sha'ul was imprisoned by the Roman government for teaching Yeshua Jesus is the Messiah. Yet during his imprisonment, he wrote to the Christians in Rome that they should be law abiding citizens. It is also interesting to not here that Rabbi Sha'ul mentions the government wielding the sword which is a reference to capital punishment.

Romans 13:1-5New International Version (NIV)
Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God"s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God"s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

So in summary, the commands given for both genocide and capital punishment would provide a world with less suffering. Although the use of capital punishment to bring about these ends is debatable, it is clear to see that the intention was for the good of society and the reduction of practices I'm sure Con would agree are detestable. Of those who adhere to the Bible, there is no significant number of individuals who hold that these commands or rules apply outside the ancient theocracy of Israel, thus should not be practiced. In contrast, Christians are commanded to live according to the rules of the governments which we are under, which would exclude any Christian living in a civilized country from abiding by these commands. In contrast, we are commanded to do as much good as possible. We are commanded to love even our enemies.

Although the entire chapter of Romans 12 is dedicated to teaching love, hospitality, forgiveness, and so many other good moral values, I'll quote from the later end of the chapter.

Romans 12:17-21New International Version (NIV)
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God"s wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[a] says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Galatians 6:10New International Version (NIV)
10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Emphasis added.



the commands were not limited to time and place because their is a part of the bible that contradicts that notion.17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished"""Matthew 5:17-18 this is what Jesus said so old laws do still apply and nowhere in the bible does it put a time limit on certain laws.
genocide is always evil and it was in the Sodom and Gomorrah story because to believe its not an evil act you must also believe that there were no babies or children in the city and that every man in it was a rapist which is a huge stretch especially if its a very large diverse city.
now as for stopping the spread of an evil religion as you called it that's kind of hypocritical considering the fact that god says to kill gays, fortunetellers, witches, and anyone who believes another religion plus the fact that god himself killed firstborns in Egypt in the book of exodus so for god to condemn killing children is hypocritical. now your point that capital punishment which it should depend on if what the offender did that's execution worthy in the first place if the crime is not execution worthy its murder being gay is not execution worthy its not even a choice to be gay and being gay hurts no one and straight people get std s to you know its not gay specific and executing witches is just plain stupid magic doesn't exist spells are just made up garbage why execute someone who cant hurt anyone with what they are doing. fortunetellers are just ripping people off they aren't killing of seriously hurting anybody and people who go see them pay them by their own will so executing someone for that is also ridiculous. killing people of other religions or beliefs is wrong unless they actually pose a serious threat a group like isis is a good example where killing in self defense is the right thing to do but only in a circumstance like that if they aren't a deadly threat leave them alone. unjust executions are the same thing as murdering someone. you think genocide and capital punishment decrease suffering ever hear of the holocaust people suffered all over Europe in that time period. china has the highest execution rate on earth and would you say no one in china suffers. their is an ongoing genocide in north Korea and most of the populous suffers. the bible does promote evil it orders unjust executions, genocide and even condones horrible crimes like rape and slavery.

" If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."Deuteronomy 22:28-29

" If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." Exodus 21:2-6

how can all of this not be a promotion of evil acts.
Debate Round No. 2


You understanding of the scripture in Matthew which you being by quoting flies in the face of almost the entirety of Christian theology. John Piper is a very well known and respected scholar who argues that we are no longer required to keep the Law of Moses; rather, we are to love other people the way we love ourselves [1]. In my reference to him, he lists multiple New Testament sources that explain what it means to fulfill the Law. I like Romans 13:8-10 myself

Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Even if we were to look at the Messianic Jewish movement, who do not call themselves Christians but adhere to the New Testament, we will find the same sentiment [2]. Being a Messianic Jew, I was actually present in the room at the time of the recording I have referenced, and I had the chance to personally speak to Rabbi Jeff Forman at length on this very topic. Rabbi Forman argues from the New Testament (in Hebrew, B'rit HaDasha) that the Law was given for a purpose. Now that Messiah has come, it's purpose has been fulfilled. My personal example borrows from the book of Galatians where Rabbi Sha'ul (aka Paul) argues that the Law was given as a teacher, but now that Messiah has come, we've graduated. After graduation, we are not obligated to our teacher, yet we keep the lessons we learned while we were under our teacher, and we carry them forward.

As I previously argued, keeping all of the Laws of Moses would not be compatible with the New Testament. Let me give another example:

Joshua 20:
1 Then the Lord said to Joshua: 2 "Tell the Israelites to designate the cities of refuge, as I instructed you through Moses, 3 so that anyone who kills a person accidentally and unintentionally may flee there and find protection from the avenger of blood.

According to your argument, Christians are bound by the Law of Moses to construct cities for people who commit manslaughter. I could also get into priestly law with skin diseases and mold growing in your house, but I think I've made my point.

You stated that the Bible was wrong about how evil Sodom and Gomorrah were. Last time I checked, we were dating whether or not the Bible promotes evil. I already pointed out the Bible's claim that there weren't ANY righteous people to be found by Abraham in the city. You cannot both say the Bible was wrong about how sinful they were and that the Bible promotes evil by acting on things it did not say. Nor can I falsely accuse you of saying evil things and then declare you an evil person for it.

As for G-d killing the first born in Egypt, that is not condoning that humans do the same, thus it is not supporting the killing of innocent children. From the perspective of the Bible, G-d is the author of life and has every right to take it away to advance a greater good. The Bible also teaches that life is not the end. It also begs the question, should a virus that kills an infant be considered as morally wrong?

On the one hand, you say that being gay doesn't hurt anyone (I showed that it would hurt themselves and others in that time period), on the other hand you point out that heterosexuals get STDs too. However, you forget that the Law of Moses condemns any action that would promote the spread of STDs by either homo- or heterosexuals. You may believe that inflicting someone with a lifetime of pain and suffering via STD isn't worthy of death, but there are things worse than death after all. The goal of the Law was to keep people healthy, which is one of the promises given in the Law of Moses if they keep the Law.

One of my best friends growing up was/is a witch. She and her family would definitely disagree with your statement that they are all fakes. I've known former Satanists who claim to have channeled spirits. Exorcisms are still practiced today [3]. Some friends of mine have personally performed one while in Africa. It wasn't done by ritual, as typically seen, but simply by prayer and verbal command (the Biblical model in the New Testament). It is sad that people are on a "demon-hunt" as they were in the Salem Witch Trials. Many bad things have happened due to superstition, but even when performed by those calling themselves Christians, we are talking about what the Bible says, not the mistakes made by Christians. Although there is much skepticism, even livescience admits such things occur and claims it is a physiological thing due to the power of suggestion over those who are demon possessed. New Oxford Review claims to have a well documented case of demonic possession where a woman showed super natural powers [4]. Obviously not every demons possession is real. The existence of false ones cannot be used as evidence that all are fake. It still remains within the scope of possibility that demons do exist. I'm not trying to prove their existence beyond the shadow of doubt, but rather that it is a possibility you would have a hard time proving conclusively false. If demons do exist, as the Bible teaches, and there were people living in a Theocracy that were consorting with the devil, than it is reasonable to say that they would be worthy of death.

I should bring up that you agree killing in self defense is okay, but you also brought up, in your first argument, the Amalekits who were constantly killing Israelites. Not only were they attacking Israel, but they were specifically targeting the weak people who were lagging behind as Israel was traveling from one place to another [5]. This was before Israel ever went to war against them. I have already shown that the command to kill off this specific people group does not stand today. It was specific to the time and place the command was given.

In your argument, you assume that slavery is evil. That is a value judgement. Slavery is not inherently evil. A master can take good care of their slaves, leading to mutual benefit. The Bible also put forth rules regarding when slaves should be set free. In fact, during the recurring Year of Jubilee, all slaves would be allowed to go free [6]. Slaves were considered to be members of the household [7]. There were protections for slaves too. Slaves must be released for grievous bodily injury caused to them: the master must let the slave go free "for his eye's sake" or "for his tooth's sake" (Ex. 21:26"27).

The Bible condoned specific genocides (some inflicted by G-d directly), but not genocide in general. There was always a given reason for the genocide which involved wickedness. I have addressed them directly in my previous argument. You have two contentions: you interpret the Bible in a way that only a Christian extremist would by ignoring everything that doesn't fit your bias, and you fundamentally disagree on ethics and morality. For example, you believe it is wrong to kill people who burn their children to death as part of their religion. Obviously, the Bible says that burning your children to death to Molech is evil, and punishable by death. Do you contend that it is wrong?



the new testament is not the whole bible its a small portion of the bible. most of the bible is old testament and including it would be pointless if it didn't still matter but even then there are other passages that back up that it still applies like this one "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" John7:19 and this one "For the law was given by Moses,..." John 1:17 and the finally this one "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35 so it does still apply. this point is well reasoned except the fact that stopping them wouldn't require killing all of them it would only require the defeat of the amalekit army which means that the genocide is still wrong. slavery is evil because the very idea that you can own someone as property is evil and degrades human life and you sad that mutual benefit can come from it but that is very rare at least 90% of the time it leads to abuse and exploitation and even death.
the point with soddom and gammora is that if the bible is wrong about the city it is an evil act and its just basic logic that the story is wrong which in turn makes the act evil. you keep saying that the genocides were limited to time and place yet they are all over the bible and the bible doesn't condemn genocide while glorying the Israeli armies that commit the genocides. also weather demons exist or not is significant to weather or not its right to execute all of those people and most demonic possession accounts are just other people telling their story and first hand accounts are unreliable unless their is actual proof of the demon existing in the first place and people who claim they are possessed and call someone and then get their possession caught on camera never display supernatural abilities and show symptoms of schizophrenia so with so little proof of demons or magic for that matter your just killing a harmless idiot.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Jellon 2 years ago
Yes, I challenged you based off what claims I saw you make else where. I forgive you for not following the standard format.
Posted by leonitus2464 2 years ago
sorry forgot to accept first my bad.
Posted by leonitus2464 2 years ago
i don't remember accepting this debate did you challenge me?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Con brought up some compelling points regarding slavery and genocide. Those two are inherently evil, but is refuted via a sliding scale of treatment. Genocide is apparently 'justifiable' in the Bible, but only at certain times and places via Pro's assertion.
Vote Placed by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con claimed the Bible condoned evil however pro defended his position by arguing that Israel had an agreement to obey the laws set in place. Capital punishment is not murder, it's punishment. Other heathen also did evil practices, thus killing them is debatable. Pro makes an excellent argument in saying God has the right to kill, but does not condone us to kill. He also points out that we are under the new testament and thus the old serves to teach us a lesson on the Torah. He also makes a good argument when it comes to slavery saying that slaves can be treated well. Evil is not black and white as con makes it out to be.