The Christian God Exists
Debate Rounds (3)
Now, the very essential core of Christianity is to "do to others as you would have them do to you" Matthew 7:12, so a Christian God would therefore be a force that tries to influence you to be kind and do the right thing to those around you. And quite simply there is such a force, human conscience.
From a purely evolutionary standpoint there is absolutely no need for a human conscience. For example; You are walking down the street and you see a Salvation Army donation box, so you donate five dollars to their cause. Now why would you do that? There is no personal gain, in fact you have made your life just the slightest bit harder to make someone else's life easier. If we were beings solely of evolution then there would be no charities because the very thought of a charity goes against the notion of survival of the fittest.
In short, the Christian God is real insofar as he is the embodiment of humankind's willingness to sometimes help out their fellow man. As for a wizened man sitting on a cloud, well, I could care less about that.
You try to define the Christian god as a force that connects man kind and I have a problem with this because the Christian god does much more than that. He created the world, he is intelligent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent and has an active influence on everyone daily lives. Labeling him as merely a force will not do because we can label any particular force as god and say that he therefore exists. In Christianity, God is the eternal being that created and preserves the universe. That is the definition I wish to work with. If you have issue with this definition then you can provide another one which fits my criteria above.
I agree that Matthew 7:12 is a core principle in Christianity and I agree that if there was a god, he would promote such ideals. The human conscience however is not a force or anything spiritual. Its a purely biological construct and you are very wrong in saying that it has no evolutionary purpose. Our conscience is our ability to internalize rules based on morals. Other species have been shown to have a conscience like chimpanzees who exhibit fear and shame when they have done something to negatively impact the group. Humans are social animals and morals are our evolutionary way of being able to deal with one another by creating primary rules that everyone agrees with. When I give money to the salvation army, I give an amount that will not have a negative influence on my life so I am not making a very large sacrifice. I want to give money because I know it will make our society better if there are less poor people and less suffering. You have a very narrow view of evolution and the concept of survival of the fittest. Being more moral can make you more fit because it means that people will generally act moral towards you as well.
Now that I have refuted your first argument, I will provide my own against the Christian god.
1. If the Christian God really is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, he knows everything that will happen and can control it in any way he wishes. If this is true then all of the stories in the bible must be historical facts because the bible was written under the influence of god. Why would god want to write confusing metaphors when he knows that many people in the future will not understand them or take them too literally.
2. The Christian god is supposed to be the most moral being in the universe so if I can prove that he is immoral, then it creates a contradiction. Why would a moral being create a place where those who do not act according to his will must be tortured forever. This sounds more like an evil dictator than a moral being. This is the exact same thing as Stalin's Gulag camps which can be considered to be one of he greatest atrocities that human kind has ever committed. Why is it wrong when Stalin does it but right when god does it. Its because those that actually believe in hell are sure that they aren't going there.
I will start off with these arguments. Realize that the burden of proof is on you in this debate and you have yet to give sufficient rational evidence for your side.
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