The Instigator
stubsmagee
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
R00TiX
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Christian God could still exist with all the evil and suffering in the world

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
stubsmagee
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/17/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,197 times Debate No: 18839
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)

 

stubsmagee

Pro

Some skeptics say that the Christian God who is all powerful and all loving could not allow evil and suffering. Usually the argument is something like: Either God is all powerful and doesn't care or He cares, but is not all powerful. My opponent does not have to use this argument, I was just using it as an example. Ill will give reasons why the Christian God could still exist with even with evil and suffering in the world. My opponent can either use the first round for acceptance and clarification of rules or they can do that and post their argument. It is completely up to them. Thank you
R00TiX

Con

Well of course the Christian God could still exist without the evil and suffering in the world. But the evil and suffering will never stop. But here's the thing; No matter how thin you make a pancake, it will always have two sides. For example: With Man comes woman. With left, comes right. With up, comes down. And of course, With the Christian God, Comes the Devil. So my argument today is going to be that yes, The Christian God can exist with all the evil and suffering in the world, but cannot exist without it.

Contention 1:
Everything that has a beginning, has a cause. For example, if you believe that god created created the universe, then you must believe that the devil, (Evil and suffering) Was created along with it.
'Then said God,
Let be light and was light.
And saw God the light that good (it was)
and separated God between the light and the darkness.'
When that quote was stated in the bible, it shows that light was good. Well then what was dark? Evil. Everything has an opposite. OF COURSE The Christian God could still exist with all the evil and suffering in the world. Because according to the bible, he does. Now, I'm not taking sides on religion, as I'm an antagonist. I would love to see proof that god really does exist. And if he doesn't, well then go figure Christians. Glad you wasted your life worshiping something not even real. I believe that the resolution in question should definitely be reworded. As anything is possible. And the word 'could' makes it pretty much un-arguable.

Now, what I would say if I was pro?
According to godandscience.org, God created the universe as a temporary testing site for creatures to choose to love Him or reject Him.. The Christian definition of evil is anything done by one of God's spirit beings (humans or angels) against Him (or His created beings). God created Man to see what they would do on their own. He has no interference in their life. So therefore, with god not interfering, it is not him directly that is causing the evil and suffering. He has absolutely no part of it. He just observes. This shows that yes, the christian god could still exist with all the evil and suffering in the world.
Debate Round No. 1
stubsmagee

Pro

While I do allow for minor changes in the resolution you cannot complete change it. The arguement that God could not exist without evil is an interestic topic but it has nothing to do with the resolution of this debate. I will therefore give my reasons why God could still exist even with evil and suffering:

All suffering comes from sin and evil. You might say why did God create sin and evil? Well, God didn't create sin, it came into the world when He gave humans free choice and they disobeyed Him. You might ask why didn't God just create humans to always choose good? Well think about if you pushed a button on a Barbie and every time it said, "I love you" How meaningful is that I love you? God did create potential for evil but it only came into being when we rejected God's ways.
You may then ask didn't God know about the potential consequences of free choice? Well think about any relationship you have had. Even if its just a friendship isn't there a chance that your friend is going to hurt you or walk away completely? However, you still make friendships knowing there is that potential.
Think about the famous story of the bear, the hunter, and God. Your walking in the woods and a bear has his leg stuck in a trap. You go to help the bear but every time you get close he things you are going to hurt him so he fights you. Then you have to shoot him with a tranquilizer gun. Now he really thinks you are out to hurt him. Then to get his leg out of the trap you have to push it in deeper to release the tension on the spring. If the bear was even conscious he would ask all the more, "Why are you making me suffer." Now, how can you be sure it is not like that with God?
The most extreme suffering was Jesus dyeing on the cross and, from a Christian perspective we see the good that came out of that.
You might say well why do evil people hurt other and get away with it. Well the fact is the Bible says they won't get away. While a skeptic would most likely not accept that they would say, "Well if God could stop suffering why doesn't he do it right now." I would tell them they are. In 2 Peter 3:9 it says, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." He is delaying everything because of his love for us.
R00TiX

Con

R00TiX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
stubsmagee

Pro

Extend Arguments
R00TiX

Con

R00TiX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
stubsmagee

Pro

Extend Arguments
R00TiX

Con

R00TiX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
stubsmagee

Pro

Extend arguments
R00TiX

Con

R00TiX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Rednerrus 5 years ago
Rednerrus
stubsmagee,
No problem, good luck on this debate.

Rusho and rogue,

Actually the problem of evil is the favorite argument of unbelievers. but like you guys said it is a losing battle and you have to be pretty stubborn to insist that the existence of evil makes the existence of the Christian God impossible.
Posted by Rusho 5 years ago
Rusho
I don't see how it is even possible to disprove your topic, you will win by default. God could still exist. This is what you state, and yes god could always exist. You are quite ambiguous. Be firm say, "God does still exist, even though the world is corrupt." All you have to say is simply this to win: people were given free will, and thereby people bring own their own downfalls at the despair of god. God cannot do anything about it without interfering with free will, so no matter how much he wishes to, god can't fix the corruption of people. Make a topic that can still be debated, as I don't see this as a possibility.
Posted by rogue 5 years ago
rogue
You cannot prove a negative so no one but Pro can win this debate.
Posted by stubsmagee 5 years ago
stubsmagee
Im sorry I didnt have time to read all of it but I skimmed threw your debate and it looked pretty good.
Posted by Rednerrus 5 years ago
Rednerrus
Problem of Evil debate. I just had one, check it out and tell me what you think of my arguments.
Posted by XiaoFei98 5 years ago
XiaoFei98
Great subject. I agree with you. God is still real even with suffering and pain.
Posted by stubsmagee 5 years ago
stubsmagee
Basically the fact that the Christian God is all powerful and all loving does not negate the fact that He could still exist. As you can read in my other debates, I dont do the debates to win based on how voters choose to vote. I do them to answer questions many atheist bring up. I dont want to make this any more difficult than it needs to be.
Posted by Thrasymachus 5 years ago
Thrasymachus
What do you mean by 'could'? Is it "despite the argument from evil, it is still epistemically possible for the Christian God to exist?" Or maybe "despite the argument from evil, God's existence is still plausible", or maybe "whatever our initial credence in Christianity, the evil and the world should not change it"? Or something else?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by cameronl35 5 years ago
cameronl35
stubsmageeR00TiXTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con FF and successful rebuttal from Pro