The Instigator
TyroneShelton
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
NothingSpecial99
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Christian God is Comparable to Hitler

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/5/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 664 times Debate No: 77315
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

TyroneShelton

Pro

Rules:
1st round acceptance and opening remarks
2nd round main argument
3rd round rebuttals
4th round closing remarks

I understand this may be offensive to some but it is the point which you must look at.

Argument:
Anybody who believes in a different religion besides Christianity (according to Bible) will burn for all eternity. Jews are a different religion. So how many Jews has the Christian God condemned to this fate? Well, all of them. Including those involved in the holocaust. If you say that damnation is worse or at least comparable to a concentration camp, then the Christian God has sent more Jews to places comparable to concentration camps than Hitler.
NothingSpecial99

Con

I accept this debate. The BOP is on Pro.

(Note: This debate will be carried out under the presumption that the Christian God is real and his word is true as my opponent uses in his argument)

It is rather disingenuous to equate the Christian God to Hitler and I’ll explain why. To begin with, we must first look at why there is death and suffering in this world. When God has first created the world, he has deemed his creation good in the book of Genesis. However, when man has rebelled against God man has brought death and suffering into the world beginning when Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden. Romans 5:12 (Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—). As also seen here, we all fall short of God’s glory and because he has created us and given us rules to follow, he has the right to punish us. Such punishment for sinning against God is death.

However, unlike Hitler who actively pursues to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, God does not want us to burn in hell. He has sent his son Jesus to take on human nature to die on a cross to pay for everyone’s sins. In doing so, he has given a way for everyone to be saved from burning in hell if they accept the gift that he sent us. John 3:16 (For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.)

So here are the main points to my argument:

  • God is the creator of life; therefore he has the right to take it away. Hitler had no such right.


  • Man has actively rebelled against God bringing to themselves death and suffering, whereas Hitler had no just reason for killing Jews


  • God is a loving God that does not want people to burn in hell so he sent his son to atone for our sins. Hitler had no such compassion for the Jews.

In conclusion: The Christian God is not comparable to Hitler.
Source: The Holy Bible

Debate Round No. 1
TyroneShelton

Pro

Thank you for that

My main argument is on the properties of an infinite punishment and why any such punishment can never fit a finite crime.

But also, the fact that there is any such punishment for such a grey area offense would also not fit the crime. I mean, almost every religion has the same punishment for not following that religion. Moreover, every religion has the same amount of evidence for it. (evidence being eye witness testimony) This makes it easy to see why so many people have all chosen different religions. There is not, simply, enough evidence to conclude which religion is correct with so much pressure on your shoulders.

Back to my main argument. Hitler persecuted people for their belief in another deity. He did not just randomly pick people, if you were Jewish you would be put in a concentration camp. My whole point is that the basis of the selection for torture God and Hitler used are alarmingly similar. And add in my first argument and God actually crosses the threshold and tortures Jews for the Deity they believed in infinitely more than Hitler. So I could say that God is not only comparable to Hitler, but if you took Hitler's deeds and multiplied them by a thousand or even a million, they would not even compose the smallest fraction of the amount of torturing for a belief in another deity done by God. That is the nature of infinite punishment.
NothingSpecial99

Con


Pro has the false assumption, that the reason why people have to go to hell is because the religion they believe in. However, a person could have been a Christian his/her whole life, gone to church, etc. but the fact remains that that person is still a sinner in the eyes of a perfect God. God has made it explicitly clear that sinners will not inherit the kingdom of heaven 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


(Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.)


However, he has provided a way to heaven through his son. If God gives a person a way to escape Hell’s punishment and they reject it, what else is God supposed to do?



“Moreover, every religion has the same amount of evidence for it. (evidence being eye witness testimony) This makes it easy to see why so many people have all chosen different religions.”


--- This statement is irrelevant on which religion is true because this debate is carried out on the assumption that the Christian God is real and his word is truth meaning all other religions and gods are false.


Another false assumption set by Pro is that the reason behind Hitler’s prosecution of the Jews is because of the religion they believed in. The real reason is that Jews served as a perfect scapegoat. At a time where Germany is in a financial crisis and faced the disgrace of losing WWI, someone must be blamed. Religion had nothing to do with it. Hitler was also driven by racism believing that the Jews were sub-human whereas the Aryan race was superior. In fact, he takes this inspiration from the AMERICAN eugenics movement. In addition, not only were Jews sent to these concentration camps but also political prisoners, communists, and Jehovah's Witnesses (A Christian group).


http://www.ushmm.org...


http://www.annefrank.org...



I’ll state this again that Hitler had no just reason for killing Jews whereas mankind has actively rebelled against God by sinning so therefore the right to punish them.



Source: The Holy Bible


Debate Round No. 2
TyroneShelton

Pro

Do sinners deserve eternal damnation? These are the countries that have documented torture:

China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Malaysia, Morocco, Nepal, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Syria, Turkey, Uganda, and Uzbekistan.

According to human rights watch.

So us imperfect mortals do not condone the use of torture. We believe it is cruel and inhumane. So is God cruel and inhumane? Is God comparable to Kim Jong Un, Adolf Hitler, or Stalin? Why would a moral God use such inhumane practices, such savage practices? Is God moral? Do you think anyone who uses torture is moral?

Would a moral, practicing person go to heaven? So an immoral person would go to hell. Would God pass his own test? These are the questions we all must ask, or else your belief can not stand criticism like this.

Now lets talk about an infinite punishment. What if I said, "You can either say I am your honest loving model, or my friend Jigsaw is going to do exactly what you see him do in the movies to you. Also, thanks to an ingenious breakthrough in medical tech, right before you die, we will revive you and start over again?" What would you say? Would you think Im an moral loving person, or a sociopathic monster?
NothingSpecial99

Con

"Do sinners deserve eternal damnation?"

God has laid out punishment for sin which is hell and yet we continue to sin, so yes.

"So us imperfect mortals do not condone the use of torture. We believe it is cruel and inhumane. So is God cruel and inhumane?"

You are judging God using your own sense of morality which is subjective. Whose sense of morality should be used? In Nazi Germany, the majority's sense of morality was that it was ok to exterminate inferior races off the face of the Earth.

"Is God comparable to Kim Jong Un, Adolf Hitler, or Stalin?"

That is the topic of this debate. The BOP is on you because you take the affirmative to a positive statement.

"Why would a moral God use such inhumane practices, such savage practices? Is God moral? Do you think anyone who uses torture is moral?"

You are going off topic here. The topic of this debate is not whether God is a immoral being or not.

"Would a moral, practicing person go to heaven?"
I've answered this in a previous argument: "However, a person could have been a Christian his/her whole life, gone to church, etc. but the fact remains that that person is still a sinner in the eyes of a perfect God 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.) If that person doesn't accept the salvation that Jesus Christ offers, then no.

"So an immoral person would go to hell. Would God pass his own test?"

Again off-topic

""You can either say I am your honest loving model, or my friend Jigsaw is going to do exactly what you see him do in the movies to you. Also, thanks to an ingenious breakthrough in medical tech, right before you die, we will revive you and start over again?""

You are going to have to clarify this for me. If this is a reference to something? If so, I don't get it.
Debate Round No. 3
TyroneShelton

Pro

I am going to not use a question-chain argument here. Torture is not moral. Period. Anywhere. Infinite punishment is not moral. Period. Anywhere. Infinite torture is not moral. Jigsaw or "The Jigsaw Killer" is the main character in the popular horror series "Saw." By saying you think Infinite torture is moral, you are saying that everything in this series is moral. I personally have never watched more than 5 minutes of it. It simply looks too painful to even watch. In what circumstances would this be moral? I can't think of any. Now you are saying that the minor offense of believing in another religion is punishable by this. Now this seems like a propaganda tactic. I mean no justice for crimes committed in their lifetime. The majority of people in eternal torture will go there for believing in another religion. Of course, the you must be good is another great one for the children. So they can stay up at night tossing and turning wondering if you have to be a saint to get into heaven or just not a murderer. But back to the propaganda tactic, it seems like God is trying to rule with an iron thumb. Following in the footsteps of Stalin and torturing the opposition. Not giving any evidence for his existence instead saying "believe in me or I will torture you" I would say that is comparable to not providing any good things coming from his reign but saying if you dont vote for me you will be in a concentration camp. That's Kim Jong Un.

Now to address the "God laid out the punishment for sin." Predetermining a law does not make it moral to enforce. To illustrate I will give you an example. It would not be moral for me to say "If you touch my stuff I will kill you" And then you touch my stuff, does it make it moral for me to kill you? No, the answer is no. The law is flawed and even with the warning, the punishment does not fit the crime. Now to punish any finite sin with infinite punishment can never possibly fit the crime. It is mathematically impossible.

I hope I have driven my point in here but here's another contradiction. The Bible says everything God does is perfect. So now eternal torture is the right thing to do. And Christians say agnostics have no morals. When the God they worship has committed atrocities and will be forever #1 on the all time list of time torturing people.

Also if you say the Devil is the one torturing, you forget God could save them, with literally no consequence. He is omnipotent. Its like a train is coming and all you have to do to stop someone from dying is raise your hand. It is so easy, you would have to be wanting them to get hit for them to get hit.

I think all religious debates need this warning. Please keep an open mind in these debates. If you think you are too far leaning towards one side to give a decently unbiased opinion, I recommend you not vote.
NothingSpecial99

Con

This is where I make my closing remarks. In this debate, the resolution is that the Christian God is comparable to Hitler. My opponent has wasted a good amount of this debate, trying to prove that the Christian God is immoral whereas it is irrelavent to the resolution. My opponent's arguments have summed up to this:

P1 Hitler sent Jews to concentration camps to be tortured and exterminated
P2 The Christian God sends people to Hell as eternal punishment
P3 Hitler persecuted the Jews because of their religious beliefs
P4 The Christian God punishes people because of their religious beliefs

Conclusion: The Christian God == Hitler

While P1 is undisputed and because this debate is held under the assumption that the Christian God is real, P2 is also true. I have disproven P3 in round 2 by showing that Hitler's reason for persecuting the Jews was not religious, but rather race and power driven and Pro has not tried to refute my claims. I have also disproved P4 by stating that the reasoning behind God's decision for sending people to hell.

In my case where I try to disprove the resolution I have stayed on topic. My arguments are as follows:

1. The Christian God is the creator of life
2. He has laid out clear rules and punishments for mankind
3. We have broken these rules on many occasions actively rebelling against God (The Jews haven't done anything to deserve their treatment)
4. He has a justifiable reason to send us to Hell (unlike Hitler)
5. The Christian God does not want us to suffer eternal torture (Hitler and the Nazis sought to extermainate Jews)
6. He has provided a way through his son so we don't have to suffer that fate (Hitler offered no such thing)

Vote Con
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Theunkown 1 year ago
Theunkown
I love how in this debate there is no insulting the instigator, but in a Muhammed drawing debate (just drawing! Not even comparing him or Allah to Hitler!!) everybody loses their mind.
Posted by Commondebator 1 year ago
Commondebator
This is under the assumption that god exists. Which means its technically un-winnable for pro
Posted by VerbalCombat 1 year ago
VerbalCombat
May I ask why? I believe they are both doing very well and we have yet to see nothing special's next argument.
Posted by SentientTumbleweed 1 year ago
SentientTumbleweed
NothingSpecial99 is getting pwnd
Posted by TyroneShelton 1 year ago
TyroneShelton
I feel that, if Hitler won, we would be saying something along the lines as "Christ wanted Hitler to win" but because that is unprovable I will rest at Although Hitler claimed to Christian, he did not follow Christian teachings.

I mainly wanted to show that if you put the Christian God on the same level as Hitler, you can either stop believing in him, or say Hitler is good.
Posted by VerbalCombat 1 year ago
VerbalCombat
Thank you for clarifying your point.

As for Hitler being a Christian, I can see how you would think I used the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Therefore, I will clarify my statement. My defintion of a Christian is, not only someone who CLAIMS to be a Christian, but someome who follows the Chistian doctrine, following Jesus Christ, and the Bible. Hitler often proclaimed his own Christianity, how much he valued Christianity, how important Christianity was to his life, and even how much he was personally inspired by Jesus - his "Lord and Savior." And yet, he did not follow Christian teachings. "Thou shalt not commit murder","Thou shalt not lay any other gods before me", "Love your neighbor as yourself", ars just a few commands from the Bible. You yourself said that he murdered many Jews. He praised the white race above others. He had nothing but hate for his neighbors. I did not use the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. I stated the Hitler was not a Christian, but only claimed to be.
Posted by TyroneShelton 1 year ago
TyroneShelton
I am showing that punishing someone for picking the wrong side in a debate with the same evidence for each side is wrong, especially when that punishment is eternal damnation. Also that Hitler and God used the same selection method for their torture. God however has tortured people for an infinitely longer period than Hitler.

Hitler made numerous references to the God of the Bible in Mein Kempf, Hitler was a Christian. You are using the "No true scotsman" fallacy.
Posted by VerbalCombat 1 year ago
VerbalCombat
And donderpants,

Hitler was never a Christian. He claimed to be one, but did not follow the Bible in any way. For example, the ten commandments.
Posted by VerbalCombat 1 year ago
VerbalCombat
Tyrone, I would like to point out, with all due respect, that the resolution is "The Christian God is Comparable to Hitler". Not "There is just as much evidence for any religion as there is for christianity". Therefore, you saying, "Moreover, every religion has the same amount of evidence for it. (evidence being eye witness testimony) This makes it easy to see why so many people have all chosen different religions. There is not, simply, enough evidence to conclude which religion is correct with so much pressure on your shoulders." Is inadequite for this debate.
Posted by NothingSpecial99 1 year ago
NothingSpecial99
As a warning, you can't vote on this debate based on what you already believe but on the arguments presented.
No votes have been placed for this debate.