The Instigator
clarence_pendleton
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
marymac150
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Christian God is Real

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
clarence_pendleton
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 423 times Debate No: 78362
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

clarence_pendleton

Con

An open, polite debate about the truth of the Christian doctrine. Please State Your Particular Worldview In the first Argument
marymac150

Pro

I accept this challenge and I can't wait to hear what you say on the topic!
Let's do it!
Debate Round No. 1
clarence_pendleton

Con

My basic view is that the god of the Christian bible is a capricious war god, who obviously did not create the world in seven days, impregnate a virgin, or instill us with morals, especially the corrupt, child sacrificing morals that are claimed by Christians.
marymac150

Pro

My basic view is that the Christian God is a loving God who brings truth, hope, and salvation to every single human being. God wants that all of us be thinking and loving people. I understand the confusion about stories such as the Virgin Mary, and the story of creation, but look at it this way: if God explained to us in a literal way the story of His/Her divine power, and told us how to live our lives in a literal way, would we be people of God? The answer is no. The Bible, God's word, allows us to reflect on the words of the Holy Spirit and find the truth in them ourselves. That is the only way we can truly come to know God. I myself as a Christian get very confused at stories like you are speaking of, and I know little to nothing about my God. But what I do know is that we have to take stories, like that of Adam and Eve and the Virgin Mary, and find truth in them. For me the story of creation holds the basic truth that God created everything, whether it be in 7 days (which I do not believe is literal) or over millions of Earthly years. In the case of the Virgin Mary, I believe the basic truth is that God came into the world and manifested himself/herself through a vessel of purity so that God could cleanse us of sin and bring an untainted Word that lasts on today. Other than that, I am curious to know your basis for the "child sacrificing morals". Personally it seems like a bit of a paradox to me so let me know!
Debate Round No. 2
clarence_pendleton

Con

2 peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation
this passage states that the bible is the literal word of god, meaning there is no interpretation involved.
the choice is up to you as to whether you wish to listen to the literal word of god and follow all of the included tenets, including anti-homosexual relations, praising Abraham for being willing to sacrifice his son for a voice in his head, feeling extreme guilt and sorrow for the crime Adam and eve first committed, aka obtaining knowledge of good and evil, etc.
Or you may choose to reject this narrow minded view of the world, where your god denounces basic human right such as choosing who you love, and lest we forget one of the most evil acts in the bible, non resistance against evil. preached by nonetheless, Jesus Christ. "but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil... love your enemies.
marymac150

Pro

First and foremost these are the exact word from 2 peter 1:20 "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things." This is saying that the prophet's themselves are not the interpreter's, but that the Holy Spirit's words are what is written. The reason 2 Peter points this out is because it justifies the bible being the Word of God. However, throughout the Bible in its entirety Jesus speaks in parables to communicate truths of God, and the Bible is filled with metaphors. Take for example, Mark 9:43 which says "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." God does not mean to literally cut off your hand, and I know this because Jesus did not chop off any body parts of the sinners he encountered (which were many).
The topic of homosexuality is always the hardest for me because I myself support gay marriage, so I will address that at the end
In the case of Abraham and his son we see two very important things. One is that the love for God should be unconditional, because that is the love he/she has for us. If that means sacrificing your child, then so be it. I know this seems extreme, and it is, but the other truth to this story is important too. God does not WANT that we kill our children for him/her, and God will not MAKE us do anything! He stopped Abraham from killing his son and I do not believe God had anyone make a human sacrifice to him/her, at least not in the Bible that I have read. And in addition, like I just said, God did not make Abraham do anything. We do not have to believe or do or act in anyway we do not want to. we, again, are a thinking people that are given freedom to choose.
I do not understand how you disagree with the love your enemies statement. It's a simple don't fight fire with fire methodology. If someone hits me and I hit them back, what do we have? Two people with sore faces and bad attitudes. But if someone hits me and I hug them, two things can happen. One, they could further resist in which case I back away so I don't get punched again! or two, they respond to love with love. God never says it was easy to love your neighbor, but if we continue to perpetuate violence it will never end. Love directly combats hatred. So do not add more hatred to the equation or its counterproductive.
Finally, we have the issue of homosexuality. I do not understand the whole "man shall not lie with man" argument myself. I thought back many times to Genesis 9;7 where God says "Now be fruitful, and multiply...". I thought maybe because gay couples cannot physically conceive a child, God did not want them to marry. {At the time the Bible was written, when you "lay" with someone they were your spouse or it became illegal (prostitution and mistresses and what not), or you were royalty of some sort.} However I did relate this to another argument, which is that of slaves. In the Bible, slaves are mentioned frequently because that was a social norm of the times. Jesus did not directly clash with slave owners every time the topic was brought up. So I myself am still seeking truth in how things like homosexuality and slavery appear contradictory to what God's essential messages are, that of love and equality. I know my God is a just and loving one who created everyone equally. The only thing I can say about it is this: God tells us in Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge lest ye be judged". I hope that you do not believe Christians are here to judge the world according to our personal moral standards, because God tells us not to judge EVER. I cannot and will not judge anyone of a different sexuality and race, and I will love them the same as anyone just as God tells us we must do.
Debate Round No. 3
clarence_pendleton

Con

this has been quite enriching, and I would like to close with saying that this is my first debate, and though I feel I am right and just haven't expressed my evidence or views thoroughly enough, I would be proud to concede a loss to such a worthy opponent, in hopes that we can keep up in this spirited debate and perhaps start another, slightly longer debate on god creating the universe and the evidence for and against gods seven day calendar? if you would like to I would gladly send an invite to continue this. cheers!
marymac150

Pro

I would love discussing this with you more. I think it's a conversation that needs to be had in a setting like this. I will definitely accept an invite to continue!
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by missmedic 1 year ago
missmedic
here is one check it out
https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com...
Posted by joetheripper117 1 year ago
joetheripper117
I looked at that video you posted, and it also shows that babies are naturally biased.
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
"instill us with morals"

HERE IS AN EXPERIMENT TO SEE IF WE ARE BORN KNOWING GOOD FROM BAD. YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK.

https://www.youtube.com...
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
SECOND:
the Bible does not cancel out the Big Bang theory.
if people where actually read the Bible instead believing what they hear from people they will notice that the Bible book of Genesis tells how who made the earth not how.

IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH. it does not tell us how God did it. he could have cause a big bang, or something else.
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
My basic view is that the god of the Christian bible is a capricious war god, who obviously did not create the world in seven days, impregnate a virgin, or instill us with morals, especially the corrupt, child sacrificing morals that are claimed by Christians.

" who obviously did not create the world in seven days"

The Bible states that God created "the heavens and the earth." This broad statement, however, makes no reference to the length of time involved in creating the universe or to the methods he used to shape it. What about the widespread creationist belief that God created the universe in six literal 24-hour days? This concept, widely rejected by scientists, is based on a gross misunderstanding of the Bible account.

Remember the 24 hours or the clock was invented by men. long after the Bible was written. as in the Bible God will use days, to represent thousand of years. he said a thousand days to a man is like a minute to him. as a thousand years to men is like a mere moment to him. knowing that somewhere along the time frame we human where going to create something call the clock.
If you read the book of Genesis, you will notice that God did not create human on the day it said he did in the chapter it was a couple of chapters later before God actually proceeded to create Adam. the writer of Genesis go on to you who created life in the first chapter, then later on he tell who when.

In the Bible account, each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years.
God had already created the universe, including a lifeless planet Earth, by the time the first creative day began. but Genesis start by saying, in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. The heaven was also long created before the earth, but you will only know things after getting all the way into Exodus, and later chapter.

SECOND:
the Bible does not cancel out the Big Bang theory.
if peole where actully read the Bible instead beliveing what they hear fro
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 1 year ago
RoyLatham
clarence_pendletonmarymac150Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro has the burden to prove that God is real. An argument is a proof if it says that God must be real for some reason, like "the universe exists so there must be an uncaused cause which is God" or some other argument that relates to evidence. Pro offered only expressions of belief, which are not reasons. Since Pro made no affirmative arguments, Con wins even though he mainly stated believes. The disproof of the Christian God are the Argument from Evil (AE) and the Argument from Non-Belief. Con did edge up on using the AE by citing bad things that a good God should not allow.