The Instigator
Theunkown
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
CheetoGo
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Christian God is unconditionally loving

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Theunkown
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/27/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 561 times Debate No: 62347
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

Theunkown

Con

I argue that if the Christian god does exist, his love is not unconditional, that is to say that he will love anyone and everyone, but with conditions.

Round 1 is acceptance (also inform us about your beleifs on religion and god)
No New arguments in the final round.

Don't argue that Christian god does not exist (we are not debating that), if you are a someone from another religion or an atheist (like me) then pretend that the christian god does exist. I would prefer if a Christian accepted this.
CheetoGo

Pro

Acceptance:
I am a a Baptist if you check my account, also a little bit Lutheran.
I do think his love is unconditional.
Debate Round No. 1
Theunkown

Con

Great to see someone accepted the challenge so quickly, lets get started
A reminder to readers that we will asume that a christain god exists (despite my atheism)

Premise 1 - The Christian God sends people to hell
Premise 2 - Hell is a horrible place to be
Premise 3 - Nobody would voluntarily send a loved one to a horrible place
Contention - God does not love the people he sends to hell and therefore does not love unconditionally


Defence of P1

I quote the Bible (Revelation 21:8) here:
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."[1]

Various groups of people mentioned (cowards, atheists, liars etc) will be sent to hell as said in the Christian god's own holy book.


Defence of P2

This is common knowledge really. God's whole purpose of creating a hell is for punishment. The verse from Revelation 21:8 which I quoted earlier that those who go to hell "will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur" and that "this is the second death"

A lake of Burning sulfur and dying for a second time does not sound good, even if it is meant to be metaphorical, its obviously referencing to the fact that hell is an extremely horrible place to be.

Defence of P3

This one is common sense, I do not want to give a second death to my loved ones nor do I want them to suffer eternal damnation in a lake of burning sulfur.


Since God sends people to hell, his love is not unconditional, thereby negating the resolution.

I await Pro's response



Sources:
[1] http://www.biblestudytools.com...;
CheetoGo

Pro

I state my argument with a simple question. If you had a child born, then he was put in prison for life, do you not love him anymore? Do you say "My child did something wrong and went to life in prison so I don't love him no more!" God is no exception. He loves you, even if you do got to hell. I quote Romans 5:8 "But god commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". (Easier to read Version from OpenBible.info) But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "While we were still sinners". In Revelation 20:8 it does not say "will not have god's love, and go to the fiery lake of burning sulfur". He never said we will not have God's love. "While we were still SINNERS". Let that sink in. Everything he named in Revelation is a sinner, but he died, he showed us love, while we were sinners.
Debate Round No. 2
Theunkown

Con

Italicized and Underlined text are direct quotes from Pro

If you had a child born, then he was put in prison for life, do you not love him anymore? Do you say "My child did something wrong and went to life in prison so I don't love him no more!"

The analogy brought up by pro puts me in the place of god and my criminal of a child as a sinner and life in prison is compared to hell.
If my child, say a son, was a criminalized for mass murder, I could not love him (it would break me but I could not love him). I would disown him. Even if I did love my child after his mass murder, surely it is because of emotion rather than reason, God is above that.

Pro's analogy implies that God loves the people he sends to hell for punishment. I could turn his analogy around and say that the police and the judicial court love the mass murderer they are sending to jail. The analogy Pro uses is ludicrous.


"But god commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"

I dont see why Jesus Christ dying for us means that god loves us, Pro needs to further elaborate on this stance.


God sends people to hell just for having a different view of the world (for example believing that idols could represent gods). Eternal suffering just because people grew up in a culture where Gods are worshipped using idols.

A person could devote his whole life to worshipping god, but if he worshipped a god in the form of an idol, he would spend the rest of existence in hell. Is this love?


Sticking with Idol worshippers, The bible says that "God abandoned them[idol worshippers] to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired." Romans 1:24 - 26 [1]
Even if Idol worshipping/beleiving in another god should be considered a sin that warrants eternal suffering, God cannot abandon the people he loves, unless...he does not love them.

I would not abandon my baby just because she thinks that someone else is her father rather than me. The only circumstance where I would abandon my baby in this scenario is if I did NOT love her which seems to be the case with God.





Sources
[1]https://www.biblegateway.com...;
CheetoGo

Pro

"But god commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"
The lord showed us love while we were sinners, and died while we were sinners. We sin, and god died to show us our unconditional love. Now think of the world as your children. you love them, but you have sibling rivalry, so his love may seem cruel but his love is still there. Be happy that when you sin your struck by lightning!
Debate Round No. 3
Theunkown

Con

his love may seem cruel but his love is still there.

I dont think sibling rivalry is the right word to use, my relation with god would be a father son relationship. If my father beats me once a while to discipline me, thats fine (child abuse, but he still loves me). If my father constantly beats me indefintely, then he defenitley does not love me, this is the same case with God and the people who go to hell.


Be happy that when you sin your struck by lightning!

I do not understand this. If this is meant to be literal, then being struck by lightning, dying and going to hell is nothing to be happy about. *Also its you are or you're not your (S&G points?)*



Pro argues that God (Jesus) died for our sins to show us his unconditional love. That means God killed his son jesus to forgive us.

If someone did something bad to you, would you kill your son to forgive that person?
If you killed your son with the intention to forgive a wrongdoer (#logicexplosion), does that mean that you love the wrongdoer?
If the answer to the previous question is yes, then God does not love his son Jesus Christ. If the answer to previous question is no, then God does not love the sinners.
Also remember that "God abandoned [idol worshippers] to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired."(Romans 1:24-26).

If god abandoned Idol worshipes, then that means that God does not care about them and will therefore not forgive them when Jesus dies.

With that, I hand the debate to Pro. With the reminder that this is his last chance to make new arguments since he (and I) will not be allowed to do so in the final round.
CheetoGo

Pro

CheetoGo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Theunkown

Con

Due to forfeit, all points to Con.

God's love is not unconditional if he exists in the Christian sense.
CheetoGo

Pro

CheetoGo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Taramarie 2 years ago
Taramarie
I would like to join the debate. this is only my second time on this site so im not really sure how this works. but I would like to argue that Gods love is unconditional. Would God have sent his only son to die on the cross if he did not love us? what conditions are you suggesting he has? he loves us even when we refuse to love him back. he has no conditions. He gives us a choice to choose heaven or hell, BECAUSE HE LOVES US. he doesn't send us to hell, we send ourselves.
Posted by republicofdhar 2 years ago
republicofdhar
This should be an interesting debate
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
TheunkownCheetoGoTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
TheunkownCheetoGoTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture