The Instigator
Callen13
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points
The Contender
yuiru
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

The Christian God must be Evil. So Christianity must be false.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Callen13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/21/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,544 times Debate No: 23736
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (5)

 

Callen13

Pro

1. If God is Perfect, good, and created everything, where did evil originate from?

Sin is defined as "An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.". Divine law being the law of God. God created everything, Lucifer and people included. Both rebelled against God's rules and therefore were deserving of Hell (also something created by God) because "God is Just".

God created Lucifer knowing that he would rebel and burn for eternity for it. God also created humans knowing that they would rebel and the majority would burn for eternity.

Why did Humanity rebel? Human nature. Given to us by God. And now he says we are evil and no longer his children, but children of Lucifer, the father of Lies. But god created Lucifer? One who also rebelled? Why did he rebel? Because of something God created in him. And now him, his followers, and a majority of humans who don't "accept him into their hearts" will burn for eternity.

Evil can be traced back to God anyway you look at it. So there is a crack in the foundation of Christianity and it all falls through the gap.
yuiru

Con

I accept your challenge.


First I will start off with a balant ad hominem attack and simply state:

Your argument is wrong because you are against the holy one and I think you are wrong.


"1. If God is Perfect, good, and created everything, where did evil originate from?"
-Callen13, from "The Christian God must be Evil".

Based on the presumposition that God created everything, evil originated from God, because God created everything.

I have just answered you with simple logic.


"God created Lucifer knowing that he would rebel and burn for eternity for it. God also created humans knowing that they would rebel and the majority would burn for eternity.

Why did Humanity rebel? Human nature. Given to us by God. And now he says we are evil and no longer his children, but children of Lucifer, the father of Lies. But god created Lucifer? One who also rebelled? Why did he rebel? Because of something God created in him. And now him, his followers, and a majority of humans who don't "accept him into their hearts" will burn for eternity."
-Callen13, from "The Christian God must be Evil".

Your point?
I'm afraid this is irrelevant and even an example of appeal to prejudice.

"Evil can be traced back to God anyway you look at it. So there is a crack in the foundation of Christianity and it all falls through the gap."
-Quoting Callen13, from "The Christian God must be Evil"

I disagree because I am stubborn, closemined, and think you are wrong about everything you are saying.
But I have some logic behind my opposition.

How has anything you've just said proved Christianity to be false?

You haven't, I would say you even prove it correct. *That's just an opinion, do not quote me.*

Throughout the bible, God is pretty malicious. BUT God is also, GOOD, and JUST, and ALL MERCIFUL, according to what you know about him, right?
Well under the presumposition that the bible is inerrant, God is always perfect and never wrong, and that humans are not perfect, then I can conclude you are wrong.

Why?

Because, just because you think God is evil still doesn't disprove Christianity.

Evil =/= Not Real
I rest my case
Debate Round No. 1
Callen13

Pro


I apologize if my last statement seemed like a rant. I will attempt to be more clear this time.


-Christianity says that God is perfect and Good and nothing but Good.


-If I can prove God has done, and is guilty of Evil, I will have proved Christianity to be wrong.



Psalm 18:30 "As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him."



I do not know how much you know about Christianity, since you have stated on your profile to be secular but in Christianity there is Heaven and Hell. God is love. He is also Just. When people sin (rebel from God) they forfeit the ability to enter Heaven because they are guilty and unclean. In the end you cannot be in the presence of God if you are unclean. Habakkuk 1:13 Because in the end, God will separate the good from the evil.(Rev. 21)





If God has a Spot on his shiny clean slate, then that's bad for business. It would mean that your allowed to be unclean and still go to heaven because God is unclean. Hell would be of no need.

Heaven and Hell are a big deal in Christianity. Why you would ever have to go to hell is a big deal also because the bible states that the majority of people will go there, along with Lucifer and his demons.



Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."


This is the definition of Evil.

evil

[ee-vuhl]

adjective

1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.

2.
harmful; injurious: evil laws.

3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.

4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.

5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.

noun

6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.

7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.

8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.

9.
harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.

10
. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.





I really hope you just agree with this definition of evil. If you do not, give me a more accurate definition to go by.





I have made bold the main definitions of the word evil that I want to focus on.

Definition Numbers 2, 9, and 10


Evil obviously is associated with causing pain.


According to Christianity


- God created humans.

- Humans are faulty

-The majority of Humans will burn for an eternity because they are faulty



It appears to me that God is the root of Harm, pain, injury, suffering, and eternal damnation of Billions and Billions of people.


Definition Number 7

7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.

-God created Lucifer knowing that he would rebel and become the father of lies. Because God is all knowing.

-The bible states that all have sinned and are evil (Humans).

-God created humans.



It appears to me that God gave rise to wickedness and sin.




In conclusion, because God has done Evil, Christianity must be false.

yuiru

Con

Hmm, I didn't think you would see past the stupidity of my arguments...

"I do not know how much you know about Christianity, since you have stated on your profile to be secular but in Christianity there is Heaven and Hell."

You got me, I practically know absolutely nothing about Christianity, the only thing I know about is something about Jesus having a beard.
I am a ruthless heathen.


I have analyzed your definition of evil, and chosen to use it in context under #1,

"In conclusion, because God has done Evil, Christianity must be false."

Now I am going to analyze this passage of the bible whilst ignoring the rest:

Psalm 18:30 "As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him."


Okay I guess if you where to disprove this, my only possible come back would be that this isn't God's word or its a divine deception. That would mostly disprove Christianity.

Netherworld-the-less I am stubborn and dogmatic and refuse to accept defeat!

My argument is, based on the presupposition that Psalm 18:30 is a property of god, regardless if real, fake, or somewhere in between, that because GODS way is PERFECT,.

Therefore based on this presupposition, God's ways, which may be seen as evil, are perfectly evil, or I can just say humans can't comprehend God because he works in nostalgically mystical ways.

also, I deny the bible says God is nothing but GOOD, or that he is love.


"It appears to me that God is the root of Harm, pain, injury, suffering, and eternal damnation of Billions and Billions of people. "

Well you are most solemnly correct about that one.

However, God is perfect so this means he can do that kind of stuff.

Quoting you: "God created Lucifer knowing that he would rebel and become the father of lies. Because God is all knowing."

I DISAGREE BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG!!!!

i say most civilly, there is biblical evidence to suggest god is not all knowing and therefore not aware of that.

Acclaimed Evidence: Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8 / Gen 6:5-6 / and Jeremiah 32:35

This evidence is irrefutable.

"If God has a Spot on his shiny clean slate, then that's bad for business. It would mean that your allowed to be unclean and still go to heaven because God is unclean. Hell would be of no need. "

I must surmount and say that, God can be a hypocrite.

Also, is it logical that we apply the deity to the restraints and freedoms of its creation, or vice versa?

YES it is not.

I do not rest my case
Debate Round No. 2
Callen13

Pro

“I have analyzed your definition of evil, and chosen to use it in context under #1,”

-Con Statement

Well context number 1 says “morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.



Based on what I have already said, the Christian God is still Evil based on the definition of evil. Evil deeds are what I described.

 

“Therefore based on this presupposition, (1)God's ways, which may be seen as evil, are perfectly evil, or (2) I can just say humans can't comprehend God because he works in nostalgically mystical ways.”

-Con Statement

1)In this case, you are claiming that God is Evil, but because he is perfectly evil, Christianity still stands?


Wrong.

Psalms 107:1 - “Oh give thanks to the LORD, for He is GOOD; for His loving kindness is everlasting”

Galatians 5:22-23 - “22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.”

The Spirit in this passage means God. Fruit meaning, the output.

Matthew 7:18 - “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, aand a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.”

God cannot be both evil and good according to scripture. This is another reason why it is so important to Christianity that God be blameless and sinless and perfectly Good.

 2)I can just say humans can't comprehend God because he works in nostalgically mystical ways.”

According to the bible, Humans have been speaking to God since the beginning of time and understanding Him. But here is some more evidence…

Genesis 3:22 “And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Man understands good and evil. In this case weather or not God is good or evil is even irrelevant because man can understand both. Man knows if God has done wrong because we have that knowledge.

 

 

Other Stuff you said that I can disprove…

 

“also, I deny the bible says God is nothing but GOOD, or that he is love.”

-Con Statement

1 John 4:8 - “Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.”

 

 

 

“I say most civilly, there is biblical evidence to suggest god is not all knowing and therefore not aware of that.”

-Con Statement

 

1 John 3:20 "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

 

“I must surmount and say that, God can be a hypocrite.”

-Con Statement

Hebrews 6:18 “So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us.

If God cannot lie, he cannot be a hypocrite.



In Conclusion


You have provided no reasonable evidence that God is not Evil. You have provided no evidence that God can be Evil and the religion known as Christianity will still stand. I have in both cases.




yuiru

Con

"Based on what I have already said, the Christian God is still Evil based on the definition of evil. Evil deeds are what I described."

Yes, but the problem with that is morality is objective to Gods standards making my fallacious arguments a tad bit more plausible.

Think about it, if God said it was kewl to eat babbies then he would change the definition of babby eating from morally wrong to morally acceptable.

That's why he sent the shebears, because babbies taste good. MM Kay?

"Wrong." Quoting Callen13, in his novel "God Cannot Be Both Evil and Good According to Scripture"

Okay I have some more desperate arguments about this.

Option1
I take back the bible is inerrant.
Why? Because if God is evil, he wants his image to be good and he will make many conflicting statements because he is a bad liar.

Evidence to suggest this is the many contradictory statements in the bible.

Option2
That, or bible writers were good people who thought God was their father (and therefore wrote positively about his character) when he tried raising them as his personal evil henchmen.

I have no evidence to support this other than the fact that God sent his chill bro son to be tortured by people, obviously he was just an unlucky pawn.

Option3
Satan is good and some of the scriptures about him got mixed up with Gods, making him seem like this.

I have no evidence whatsoever.


"According to the bible, Humans have been speaking to God since the beginning of time and understanding Him." Quoting Callen13, in his best seller "God is Evil"

True dat,

One problem.
According to the bible, God also mooned Moses...

You can't explain that.

"If God cannot lie, he cannot be a hypocrite."

Proof the bible was written by the pygmy centaurs on mars in the Gustonian era to DECIEVE MANKIND!!!!!And to think all this time I thought I was crazy...

"You have provided no reasonable evidence that God is not Evil. You have provided no evidence that God can be Evil and the religion known as Christianity will still stand. I have in both cases. "

We'll if you have done this for me in both cases, then I guess you have made the con side of the debate completely valid >:D

Evidence God can be Evil (as you have proved God is pretty evil) and the religion known as Christianity will still stand:
http://www.deviantart.com...

How are there Christian institutions if Christianity is not standing the test of time to high scrutiny from skeptics everywhere?

"You have provided no reasonable evidence that God is not Evil."

True, I'll give you that.

BUT, I have provided unreasonable evidence.

Conclusion:

You are wrong and I am right.


You have made a total mockery of my fallacious, illogical, and baseless claims and arguments.

You recently state that you provided evidence God can be evil and Christianity still survives.



        1. Therefore, my arguments are good.




I wake my case.
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
@Microsuck: Because if con won, you should at least tie the arguments points.
Posted by Cody_Franklin 4 years ago
Cody_Franklin
What the hell is this?
Posted by Microsuck 4 years ago
Microsuck
why can I only partial counter-vb? If he gives a better RFD, I'll change my vote.
Posted by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
I'll look and vote on this in a few minutes. And exactly have a coherent RFD.
Posted by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
Microsuck, if con won, you still have to give some points to him. You can only partial-cvb.
Posted by Callen13 4 years ago
Callen13
WTF? He didn't even have any arguments?? It was complete babble???
Posted by THEBOMB 4 years ago
THEBOMB
Could have been a good debate...
Posted by Callen13 4 years ago
Callen13
Is anyone going to vote then?? lol please vote people!
Posted by caveat 4 years ago
caveat
This is hilarious. Well done Callen.
Posted by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Con is my hero.
"I wake my case"
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by wiploc 4 years ago
wiploc
Callen13yuiruTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments didn't make sense. There were parts of Pro's arguments which could have been challenged, but Con didn't bother. Persuasion: Pro. Con's dizzying typefaces were hard to read, as obnoxious as a pile of misspellings or a snarl of grammatical errors. S&G: Pro.
Vote Placed by Microsuck 4 years ago
Microsuck
Callen13yuiruTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Although con won, Shawn votebombed badly on this. I am countering hsi vote
Vote Placed by Shawnewise 4 years ago
Shawnewise
Callen13yuiruTied
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Reasons for voting decision: con
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 4 years ago
THEBOMB
Callen13yuiruTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I don't even know how to vote arguments on this. But, Con's format was almost unreadable S
Vote Placed by larztheloser 4 years ago
larztheloser
Callen13yuiruTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had BOP. Pro ran default POE case and resolved it by saying God is not omnibenevolent, which contradicts Christianity. Con argued Christian God isn't omnibenevolent anyway, because its not all knowing. Pro refuted this case using Biblical evidence ie "God is love". Poor debate overall because con kept conceding stuff. Pro met BOP, 3:0 aff win.