The Instigator
attrition
Pro (for)
Losing
25 Points
The Contender
Advidoct
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points

The Christian god cannot exist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,376 times Debate No: 1917
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (22)

 

attrition

Pro

I am not an atheist. I think that the idea of god is so broad that one cannot, with 100% certainty say that 'God' does or does not exist. I certianly lean towards the general 'NO' to the question of Gods existence. Agnosticism has many different levels. Strong, nearly atheist, to weak, God probably exists I just don't know for sure. I found a definition of what I believe. Ignostic. Which means, the idea of god is debatable, it depends on you definition. Quantum physics has opened up an entirely new area of science that may one day definitively prove or disprove the existence of a higher power.

With that said, the Christian God cannot exist. The Christian god is supposedly; omnipotent, knowing all things past, present, and future; omnipresent everywhere and in everything at the same time; good, eternal, perfect and humans are made in his image. If this isn't the concept of the Christian God that the debater has, I put four rounds in so we can agree to the basic definition of the attributes the Christian God has. These seem to be the most widely understood attributes. (Consider references to god or the creator as the generic 'Christian God' for sake of typing)

The basic points:

The God of the Bible changes. The creator in the old testament is jealous, angry, vengeful, spiteful and demands utter adherence to his law with the threat of death and eternal damnation. The creator then lightens up in the new testament with the focus on the teachings of Jesus that leaned toward forgiveness and peace. How can an eternal creator change?

2. God knows the past present and future. If God knows the past present and future, wouldn't god have known that his creation would turn their backs on him? Since he knew the creation story would play out the way it did, what was the point of creation? Some sort of amusement for a bored entity? Which begs the question, how can god get bored?

3. God given freewill is a fallacy. God, knowing all things, must know all events and thoughts. God must have known before he even created the universe that Eve would eat from the tree of knowledge, bring Adam along and condemn the human race to struggle forever more with their very nature. If we have free will how can our decisions be wrong? If you are kidnapped and put in a cage, the captor does give you freewill by saying, "I will let you out of the cage if from now on you follow my rules" Freewill is supposed to be free. Putting conditions on it no longer makes it free.

4. Many religions around the world exist. All very different. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, various sects of Christianity, Buddhists, and various tribal religions all with a different idea of what God is. (Or isn't in the case for many eastern religions). How can the Christian God exist in the face of all the opposing concepts? God can't be perfect if his creation can't even decide which god to believe in. God should have made it clearer.

5. God cannot answer prayers and therefore not a 'good' entity. Let's say too equally good, devout Christians pray for a victory in a baseball game. They are both very earnest in their prayers and find nothing wrong with praying for victory in a silly game. However, they have different teams. How does God choose who's prayer to answer? A simple concept, but if taken in the broader concept of humanity and it's wars, disease and general well being god must not and cannot interfere. Prayers can't be answered. If they can, then God chooses not to answer the prayers of millions of suffering people around the world, so by lack of interference allows the suffering of the innocent.

The Christian god cannot exist
Advidoct

Con

Im gunna tell this exactly how it is and skip all the pointless rambling.

You can spout out all of the "fun facts" you want but u can NEVER disprove the existence of god.
No one can prove god, and no one can disprove god, or even just the christian god for that matter. Thats just a fact.

I decided to argue u on this point because im so sick of all the dumb "God doesnt exist" debates. They are dumb debates for 2 reasons.

1. The "Pro" , in this case yourself, cannot legitimately win their debate because they cant prove their point

2. Because everyone votes on what they personally believe.

Trying to prove the unprovable, is such a waste of precious life...
Debate Round No. 1
attrition

Pro

I am not debating the existence of god as a general concept. It seems you didn't even honestly read my post. I think I have proven that the Christian God doesn't exist. It is now upon you to show my arguments incorrect. Im sorry, I didn't need to explain a debate to someone. I guess I shouldn't overestimate the intelligence of who I might be arguing. I can't prove that invisible, giant purple dinosaurs orbit the earth either, but more likely than not they don't. If you are sick of the 'God does or doesn't exist' debates then stop looking in the Religion category and let someone else argue it. How about I simplify that for you? You can't back up your beliefs so you dismiss the argument. Next.
Advidoct

Con

Ok, it is obvious that I am going to have to explain more thoroughly.

First, I am going to discuss the points you made in the first round.

1. You said
"The God of the Bible changes. The creator in the old testament is jealous, angry, vengeful, spiteful and demands utter adherence to his law with the threat of death and eternal damnation. The creator then lightens up in the new testament with the focus on the teachings of Jesus that leaned toward forgiveness and peace. How can an eternal creator change?"

- This does not prove anything about the christian god because you are arguing More than the christian god. The God in the Old testament is the christian god, the muslim god, and the jewish god. When we arrive in the new testament it becomes solely the christian god.
Now to deny the existence of the christian god based on a personality change would be a legitimate claim only if we knew the the old testament god truly existed...but we dont. You can assert that one of the two gods doesnt exist, but you cannot know which on it is, so you have failed to disprove the christian god.

2.You said
"God knows the past present and future. If God knows the past present and future, wouldn't god have known that his creation would turn their backs on him? Since he knew the creation story would play out the way it did, what was the point of creation? Some sort of amusement for a bored entity? Which begs the question, how can god get bored?"

- This whole statement is nothing but an assumption. First, on what grounds can you claim that gods creation has turned their backs on him? You may have, but other folks haven't. Even if there was just one person on the face of this planet who worshipped him, God has a legitimate reason for creating us. Second, best I can see you are assuming that god's purpose in the creation was to make us all just for the heck of it. Could god not have a reason that is not voided by the neglect of his creation? Third, "How can god get bored???" Who said god was bored. I dont even follow that...
Lastly, and most importantly, in this statement you are attempting to disprove God, not just the christian god. If the christian god does not exist because of the "pointlessness" of creation, then neither does any other type of god.

3. You said,
"God given freewill is a fallacy. God, knowing all things, must know all events and thoughts. God must have known before he even created the universe that Eve would eat from the tree of knowledge, bring Adam along and condemn the human race to struggle forever more with their very nature. If we have free will how can our decisions be wrong? If you are kidnapped and put in a cage, the captor does give you freewill by saying, "I will let you out of the cage if from now on you follow my rules" Freewill is supposed to be free. Putting conditions on it no longer makes it free."

-When did we start debating about free will and how does the existence of free will or lack thereof disprove the christian god? Also, this is again discussing the christian god, the muslim god, and the jewish god. so again, you are attempting to disprove god.

4. You said,
"Many religions around the world exist. All very different. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, various sects of Christianity, Buddhists, and various tribal religions all with a different idea of what God is. (Or isn't in the case for many eastern religions). How can the Christian God exist in the face of all the opposing concepts? God can't be perfect if his creation can't even decide which god to believe in. God should have made it clearer."

-First, your assertion that our scattered faith makes god imperfect has no foundation. Why couldn't god be perfect despite our varying opinions? There is no reason to believe that he couldnt other than that you say so. Second, how can ANY god exist in the face of all the opposing concepts? This goes beyond just the christian god. You are trying to disprove god AGAIN.

5. You said,
"God cannot answer prayers and therefore not a 'good' entity. Let's say too equally good, devout Christians pray for a victory in a baseball game. They are both very earnest in their prayers and find nothing wrong with praying for victory in a silly game. However, they have different teams. How does God choose who's prayer to answer? A simple concept, but if taken in the broader concept of humanity and it's wars, disease and general well being god must not and cannot interfere. Prayers can't be answered. If they can, then God chooses not to answer the prayers of millions of suffering people around the world, so by lack of interference allows the suffering of the innocent."

- First, god doesn't have to answer prayers to exist. The lack of answers does not disprove his existence, it only proves his indifference on certain issues. Second, this applies to EVERY god not just the christian ones. You are batting against the concept of god again, and this time your struck out.

Like I said earlier, you cannot disprove god. Whether or not your title says "The Christian god cannot exist", you are still attacking the concept of a general god with every argument you posted.

What I said in the first round still stands. You are attempting to disprove god, and you cannot do that.
Debate Round No. 2
attrition

Pro

" This does not prove anything about the christian god because you are arguing More than the christian god
Now to deny the existence of the christian god based on a personality change would be a legitimate claim only if we knew the the old testament god truly existed...but we dont. You can assert that one of the two gods doesnt exist, but you cannot know which on it is, so you have failed to disprove the christian god."

----Just because this statement happens to be true for many gods, does not negate the fact that it is true for the Christian god as well. So I am specifically talking about the Christian god.

". The God in the Old testament is the christian god, the muslim god, and the jewish god. When we arrive in the new testament it becomes solely the christian god."

----It is self evident that most Christians do not differentiate between the old testament god and the new testament god. So that is a false agument. It's an augment that proves my point more than it does yours. Old testament god does have roots that extend to the other three religions you mentioned. Each religion has it's own prophets and philosophy as how god wants you to live your life. Christinas have their own version. So how does this split occur, and what becomes of the original old testament god in the new testament? The Bible is the only book that tells a christian, how to act and what to believe. Within it's own dogman, god changes. Once again, god the eternal force CAN NOT change, it defies the very essence of what god, the christian god, is supposed to be.

" This whole statement is nothing but an assumption. First, on what grounds can you claim that gods creation has turned their backs on him? "

-----Bible (KJV)Genesis; Ch. 6, verse 5- Aand God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis ch. 6, verse 7 - And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The whole point of giving man knowledge of good and evil, according to the Bible, was because man went against god's commandments. He then destroyed man...well 99.9%.

"You may have, but other folks haven't. Even if there was just one person on the face of this planet who worshipped him, God has a legitimate reason for creating us."

-----It seems the Bible would disagree with you, as do I. Your argument is that a legitimate reason for creation is only for the self-glorification of a higher power. Please enlighten us further as to the point that god had, when he created existence.

"Second, best I can see you are assuming that god's purpose in the creation was to make us all just for the heck of it. Could god not have a reason that is not voided by the neglect of his creation? Third, "How can god get bored???" Who said god was bored. I dont even follow that..."

---The statement refers back to my original argument and to question why an all powerful being would have the need to create existence. Why create us with full knowledge of all events that have happened up to this point, and even beyond?

"Lastly, and most importantly, in this statement you are attempting to disprove God, not just the christian god. If the christian god does not exist because of the "pointlessness" of creation, then neither does any other type of god."

---OK, fine. So be it. Great. I win. I am proving that the Christian god doesn't exist. If you think that other gods don't exist then great. You are an atheist when it comes to Zues or Aphrodite, or Ra, or any other out dated god. I contend that you must prove these other gods do not exist to show the rest of us that your god does. You would probably agree, if you are an honest person, these gods never existed, then it can then be reasoned logically that the Christian God is no more than a fairy tell similar to these gods. An attempt to control the hearts and minds of the masses, used to put fear in the minds of people that don't have a reason to be moral.

"When did we start debating about free will and how does the existence of free will or lack thereof disprove the christian god? Also, this is again discussing the christian god, the muslim god, and the jewish god. so again, you are attempting to disprove god."

---My statemt just shows the irrational thought behind a creator god. I can't argue against the Christian god without treading into the area of other God's. They are too similar in their absurdity.

"-First, your assertion that our scattered faith makes god imperfect has no foundation. Why couldn't god be perfect despite our varying opinions? "

----The Christian god says that all must believe in Jesus to enter heaven. For many pars of the world, that is not possible or even a thought that enters their head. So this 'perfect' god, condemns most of his creation to eternal damnation and torture even though they may never even heard the teachings or even seen a Bible. That doesn't fit my definition of perfect. For something so very crucial to the afterlife, god sure has been very shy in the past couple of millenia. Why doesn't god show himself out in the open to all so that without any doubt his existence is proven,like he did in biblical times. I shouldn't have to have faith to see my creator. If the Christian god is not perfect, than he cannot exist.

"Second, how can ANY god exist in the face of all the opposing concepts? This goes beyond just the christian god. You are trying to disprove god AGAIN."

----Point taken. My arguments do go beyond the Christian god. That doesn't mean that they don't include the Christian god. Stop trying to re-frame the argument. I don't know the Quran or the Jewish faith as well as I do the Christian faith, so that's the God I am arguing against. There are too many contradictions in the 'word of God' that even the simplest of minds can't see, to say that God is perfect. If god were perfect he would have planned better.

" First, god doesn't have to answer prayers to exist. The lack of answers does not disprove his existence, it only proves his indifference on certain issues. Second, this applies to EVERY god not just the christian ones. You are batting against the concept of god again, and this time your struck out."

---Once again I am simply laying out the contradictions of the Bible and it's illogical belief system to show that what the bible says is false, inaccurate, and both logically and physically impossible.

"Like I said earlier, you cannot disprove god. Whether or not your title says "The Christian god cannot exist", you are still attacking the concept of a general god with every argument you posted."

---Then your reading and interpretation skills need improved.

"What I said in the first round still stands. You are attempting to disprove god, and you cannot do that."

----I can and I have.
Advidoct

Con

Dude, I am not gunna dive into doctrinal debate. That goes beyond my point and it would only get me involved in the very thing I am here to critisize. We would argue and argue and in the end, neither one of us could prove the existence or non-existence of the christian god. It would be a terrible waste of time. Instead I am going to explain again the point that you are clearly missing.

Here is my point:

1. It is a FACT that no one can prove, nor can they disprove the existence of god.

2. You have extended your argument, intentionally or not, to disprove the existence of God. Not just the christian god, but all gods. You have done this in several ways.
a) you have argued the principle of a gods willingness to answer prayers; a principle that extends to every monotheistic faith
b) you have argued the principle of a creator god; a principle of EVERY faith
c) you have cited evidence using verses in the Old Testament, which is both part of the Torah and a Islamic scripture as well as christian.
d) you have argued the gift of free will, a gift that all montheistic gods have supposedly granted
e) you have cited NO evidence that disproves the singular idea that is the christian god. Your evidence has been entirely directed at the existence of any god on a broader scale.

My point in all of this: You have yet to argue your initial point, let alone prove it. Further more, the point you have argued (again, intentionally or not) is an unprovable point and you had lost the debate before you even began.

3. My last point, the christian god is a god no less and is still entirely unprovable. You cannot prove he exists, and you cannot prove he doesn't. He is a god. Its as simple as that.
There is no solid and undeniable evidence to disprove his existence. The evidence you have given is minor, and very arguable, which makes it weak no matter how strong it seems to you. It is based on personal understanding, and assumptions about gods intentions and actions. These arguments cannot serve as a foundation for ANY argument, because they are ASSUMPTIONS.

In order to win this debate, you have to disprove the christian god. To disprove the christian god, you have to give me at least one undeniable fact, that proves without doubt that the christian god is a lie. You have yet to do that. If you can do that, than I will concede this debate...

But you and I both no you cant, and in that respect, you have already lost.

Why??? Because You Cannot Prove the Point You Have Claimed to be able to prove.
Debate Round No. 3
attrition

Pro

"1. It is a FACT that no one can prove, nor can they disprove the existence of god."

----Like I said in the opening argument, I agree with this statement. I am not atheist because I do agree with the statement. I however, have parameters that are clearly laid forth in a very specific book by which to deny a specific entity or it's followers respect. I also can not disprove, as in Scientology myths, that ancient aliens dropped off their prisoners on our planet eons ago and the spirits still inhabit us, and essentially making life hell. And the only way to get better is by learning(paying for) Scientology that shows you how to get rid of the bad alien spirits.

It is just as likely that God is so small, jealous, angry, and vindictive as the Bible portrays him to be. Not to mention giving god a gender. In fact, maybe that proves my case as simply as I can put it. The Bible gives god a gender. It seems ludicrous to me that the creator of the ENTIRE universe limits itself to a gender. Understandably, the writers of the Bible were probably male and gender roles very prominent in the society. How else could they see god?

"2. You have extended your argument, intentionally or not, to disprove the existence of God. Not just the christian god, but all gods. You have done this in several ways.
a) you have argued the principle of a gods willingness to answer prayers; a principle that extends to every monotheistic faith
b) you have argued the principle of a creator god; a principle of EVERY faith
c) you have cited evidence using verses in the Old Testament, which is both part of the Torah and a Islamic scripture as well as christian."

------You seem to be stuck on this point. So I will give in. My argument has now proven that the Christain, Muslim and Jewish god can not possibly exist. By it's own devices, the Bible is totally fallible in it's depiction of the creator.

"e) you have cited NO evidence that disproves the singular idea that is the christian god. Your evidence has been entirely directed at the existence of any god on a broader scale."

Nope, that's your assumption from the beginning not mine. I am citing evidence from the only book that contains descriptions of the Christian God, the Bible.

So please tell me, which "Christian" god is real? Inconsistent behavior should not be in the nature of an eternal being. That proves my original statement.

GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.

EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.

EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.

LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.

NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.

2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."

EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."

2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.

GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.

GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.

My assumptions are not assumptions when all of the parameters by which a god can be are spelled out very clearly in a revered "Holy" book. I can't prove the Christian god exists just like I can't prove that alien spirits inhabit our bodies and are making us feel bad, or just like I can't prove that an invisible 12-ft tall, pink bunny rabbit follows me wherever I go. I can believe whatever I want to believe, I can tell you I feel the presence of that 12-ft tall, pink bunny rabbit and it's soft whiskers russeling my neck. But then I might be put in a straight-jacket and hauled off. Believing in the Christian god should be a declared a mental illness.

But go ahead and believe your comfortable myths. Any God that I am waiting to discover is far greater than this canned, ego driven god of the Bible. I don't think god is able to influence action in our world. I think only we can do that. I think that if there is a god, intelligence that exists within it may not even be what we know to be as intelligence. Does nature have intelligence?
The Christian god, like most other religions, only divide us as a race. Sure you might have a small group that comes together, but we are a global people. If people continue to believe in the smallness that the Christian god portrays, then the human race will never advance to the greatness we all seek.
Advidoct

Con

In the Beginning, there was a debater, named Attrition.
He said "Let there be a debate!" and there was a debate. And the debate was named

"The Christian God cannot exist"

Unfortunately, Attrition spent lots of time citing evidence to prove his point, but alas, fell victim to the same fate as everyone else. He was unable to disprove the christian god anymore than he was able to prove him.

In your arguments you cited lots of evidence from the bible ( and I respect you for that. That must have taken some time), but you did not prove anything. In fact, you used the same evidence everyone else uses.

You are confident in that your claims disprove the christian god, but only because you have convinced yourself. Unfortunately, in this debate, you have failed to convince me, and many others who belief in the almighty. These are the ones you needed to convince.

You say you have disproven the Christian god, but, just like everyone who has tried before you, you have fallen short. You have not PROVEN the point you have claimed to be able to make. Perhaps all you have proven is that the existence of the Christian god is unlikely...but anyone can prove that, and many have.

I said in the beginning, that you had already lost because you couldnt not actually disprove the christian god. You feel that you have because of the mountains of evidence you have posted, but you are forgetting that there is just as convincing evidence to prove that he does exist, and so, there is no way to prove either way.

Now Im gunna wrap up, and Im gunna makes this a bit more to the point for the benefit of the voters.

-----You Said You Could Disprove the Christian God, and you couldn't------

because you CANNOT disprove him at all! You can give all kinds of evidence, but you can NEVER disprove him. Just like every "Existence of God" debate before you, you did not disprove him.
You argued your point, but you did not prove it to anyone who didnt already believe it in the beginning, and that makes a failed argument.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kierkegaard 9 years ago
Kierkegaard
Advidoct held up rather well, until his last argument, in which he goes: "Wuh-uh-oh! You have fallen short, but I'm not going to explain why! You can't disprove him, its just simply not possible!"

Come, now. You could have come up with something better than that.

And citing evidence from the Bible against Christianity *actually* disproves Christianity.

He should have gone into the Book of Mormon as well.

Nonetheless, Attrition has my vote.
Posted by Undeniable-Love 9 years ago
Undeniable-Love
This entire argument is pointless. We can sit here and mull this over till doomsday, but we're probably never going to know. It's a subject of speculation only when you won't die if you never find out, and you have a lot of time to kill. Really, we should just agree to disagree, since there will always be speculations as to whether or not the existence of God is legit. Non-believers will always have the argument, "Give me evidence that he exists", and Christians will always be able to say, "Give me proof that he doesn't."
Posted by patrock2 9 years ago
patrock2
attrition: I too believe God can be explained within the laws of energy;of scientific principles as you put forth. What a moment of enlightenment(Slam!) for me that was! When I learned in depth about energy it was then that I knew that God and Science have no argument -man does the arguing each for his own perceptions. Lets face it, somewhere between the universe and the human mind-that's where it all goes wrong.
As regards your last statement: Just because man got it wrong,and continues to get it wrong,just because man applies human emotions, human judgments to God,and yes just because the bible is flawed in that it was written by men;by finite minds, does not mean there is no God.
No matter how fervently we all once believed the earth was flat that belief did not make it flat. The earth stayed true to it's shape despite our beliefs to the contrary.. We had to go see this truth for ourselves. So while your perceptions of God,of deity may not fit the bible nor tolerate all the contradictions within it's pages,this does not mean Your perceptions are wrong. Just because people get the God concept wrong doesn't mean there is no God concept to get-
Do you see? It matters not what path you choose, it matters only that you recognize the gift;the fun of choosing...
Be Of Good Courage ;-}
Posted by attrition 9 years ago
attrition
What the crux of the con's argument came down to, and some of the comments after words, say that if we believe in something then it exists. No matter the lengths at which one can show contradiction in the Bible, 'faith'(belief without proof) trumps it all. If we see reality as a creation of a higher power, poof, then it is. I love how Christians can bend and meld their beliefs to fit what science discovers isn't true or what society no longer deems appropriate.(Can you feel MY sarcasm) ie Slavery, female oppression, bigotry, animal sacrifice, eating certain animals, a 6,000 year old universe. Homosexuality IS denounced in the Bible and yet there are Christian homosexuals. WTF?! Working on the Sabbath and Adultery get you death, yet the world works every single Saturday (or Sunday, depending how you look at it). Either the Old Testament is truth or it isn't. Christians tend to scoff at most of what the OT says, rightly, because most of it is absurd, they know it, but call it 'Jewish' law. They always say Jesus came along and changed everything. Well, then stop putting the OT right along with the NT in every damn Bible.

Patrock, I like most of what you are saying. You have a generally religious neutral tone to how you describe god. I think that if god exists, it can be explained through scientific principles. I object to the use of God as a judge. Spirituality and the interconnectedness that we humans have with the universe through the energy that everything is made up of, allows for spirituality and science to not be mutually exclusive.

However, with that said, the miracles espoused, the contradictions within, the clearly dated material, the varying interpretations, the various books pieced together by committee, show the Bible to be fallible and thusly the God of the Bible to be without justification, Nor worthy of worship.
Posted by patrock2 9 years ago
patrock2
iadebater: I couldn't resist addressing your comment: Man did not 'make' Math and Quantum Physics-these laws have always been there..Man discovers what already exists..not to minimize these discoveries-these are major paradigm shifts in our perceptions of the universe; of energy. man didn't make math-man discovered math exists-music is all about the math-and what beautiful music math creates!
Posted by patrock2 9 years ago
patrock2
kotoamo look around you- creations and it's creators abound. I agree with your statement(Minus the sarcasm) when you say that God is The Creator and we are made in the Creators' image. What we have in common with God IS our ability to create something from 'nothing.'limited only by our imaginations and the laws of matter that govern THIS Universe. For example;The songwriter created a song where 5 minutes ago this song didn't exist. Artists blend colors in their own unique style-no two alike-this artist created an image where before there was none. Sculptors see images within blocks of marble and wood. Orchestra create awe inspiring music where there was only silence moments ago..
As for creating universes-wouldn't you say we all live in our own 'worlds'? or worlds of our own making? Isn't it also said that we create our own reality? We even populate our 'worlds' with loved ones, freinds, animals, plants,experiences. Why this place is lousy with creation. Jesus alluded to this when He said; "In my father's house there are many mansions"..these 'mansions' he spoke of is likened to our own minds. When taken in this context we can say that there are billions of 'worlds' walking around out there-put them all together and what do you have? A Universe! ...
~~For those with ears let them hear~~and the blind shall see~~ Be Of Good Cheer ;-}
Posted by kotamo 9 years ago
kotamo
there is no god...

we are suposedly made in gods image...

BAM I JUST CREATED A UNIVERSE!!!!

WITH ALL KINDS OF DIFFERNT AMIMALS AND SORTS!!!!

the point is if we were created in gods image we would be able to do all the things that this greater being is capable of.

and i yet to see a human create a universe.
Posted by iadebater 9 years ago
iadebater
Math and Quantum physics were made up by humans therefore if there is a God.. Which there is...we would look at humans as irrational trying to ration. Nobody can prove their point but con won because he skipped the less important stuff and got straight to the point.
Posted by HempforVictory 9 years ago
HempforVictory
While it is impossible to prove that there is no God, I think it is possible to show that it is impossible for God to exist exactly the way he is described in the bible. Because Advidoct refused to address the direct contradictions within the bible, and since the bible is the only account of the christian god, I voted for the pro in this debate.
Posted by patrock2 9 years ago
patrock2
This debate while fun, can't be won-no matter which side you argue or vote for.
Within each person resides a God fragment; a soul if you will. This 'fragment' drove the earliest humans to worship the unexplainable. From human's first attempts beginning with rock worship,animal worship,nature worship,Greek mythology..through to ghost worship;to deity worship. Our universe is an evolving one. Our comprehension is evolutionary too. Our highest concepts of deity to date still remain limited by a finite mind.
While the brain can be measured, tracked, quantified, no one can scientifically explain the FACT that we have all have a mind. No one can see the mind, no one can weigh or measure the mind yet no one argues against the mind's existence...
So it is with God. We can't see God, measure or quantify God, yet on this point we have been arguing over God's existence since language began. As if we can point a finger on either side and say-there he is! see? or there he isn't-I proved you wrong! All of this again is divisive and serves to isolate us from each other, from evolved understanding. There are as many paths and as many definitions of God/Not God as there are people. We all have two things in common; we all bleed red and we all have faith. Yes Faith. Even Atheists have the 'Faith' in their conviction that there is no God...Think about it...

THE FINITE MIND WILL NEVER COMPREHEND THE INFINITE-
DISPROVE THAT
22 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by thejudgeisgod 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Vi_Veri 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Kals 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Undeniable-Love 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by iadebater 9 years ago
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