The Instigator
Eca
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
willhudson79
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

The Cold War Never Ended

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
willhudson79
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/31/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,064 times Debate No: 61132
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

Eca

Pro

Hello and thank you for accepting/viewing this debate.

This debate is about if the cold war ended or not. It is commonly said it ended in 1985, however, the remnant's of terrorists first funded by the US to fight the Soviet Russians, is now backfiring on the U.S.A. And now, Russia gaining influence in Ukraine and is becoming a growing power. On top of that the middle eastern nations uprisings and the fact those said nations are now favoring Russia thus threatening Americas veto and influence in the region.

My stance that it has died down, but never actually ended.

Here is how the debate sequence goes:

1.)
Acceptance
2.)
Terrorists are fighting the Cold war in the so called "War on Terrorism"
3.)
Russia is dividing Europe and the world by invading Crimea in Ukraine creating a threat to the EU and U.S.A
4.)
The middle eastern uprisings is a direct result of America fiddling around and cooping nations in the region. And these nations are now siding with the Russians (E.G. Egypt).
willhudson79

Con


So the Cold War, exemplified by a nuclear standoff between the United States and USSR did end along with the Soviet Union and the real threat of nuclear war between the United States (a social democracy) and the USSR (a quasi-communist) dictatorship. The War on Terror is without a doubt influenced by the West role in funding the Afghan rebels but the comparison ends there. The War on Terror is a separate issues, with different problems, and is far from “COLD” and does not share other basic characteristics like large militaries, stockpiles of nuclear weapons, the use of spies and intelligent gather on both sides. My opponent, if I can use a television analogy is saying basically the FX show The Americans is the same or similar to the SHOWTIME series. Even though, I would agree that many of the things that happened during the Cold War play a part in the War on Terror, I would not conclude this means the Cold War never ends. Lastly, if anything Russia today under Putin is a conventional Russian leader going back to Peter the Great, if anything Putin is scrambling, reacting. He does not have the control of Stalin did.


Debate Round No. 1
Eca

Pro

Eca forfeited this round.
willhudson79

Con


With the forfeiture, I will extend the arguments from Round 1. But let me add a couple of points relevant to the debate.


In Round 1 Pro state in argument two:


Terrorists are fighting the Cold war in the so-called War on Terrorism


Con’s rebuttal:


Con does not understand this argument but will still attempt to persuade you the Cold War and Terrorist fighting the War on Terror share little resemblance. The War on Terror is by all accounts a “hot” war. By “hot” war, I mean direct attacks countered retaliation from the other side. The “Cold War” was cold because it did not involve a long-term direct conflict between the United States. Additionally, the “Cold War” involved a bi-polar conflict between two states. The War on Terror involves non-state actors, launching attacks from failed states with no central authority (Yemen, Afghanistan, [western] Pakistan, ISIS (Syrian border), Libya, etc.). Furthermore, the Cold War was global while the War on Terror is regional, limited to the Middle East. The fact that the Cold War was an ideological battle over competing ideologies, capitalist pluralistic democracies and communist autocracies makes it different from the War on Terror. The War on Terror and terrorism is a political method only.


Russia is dividing Europe and the world by invading Crimea in Ukraine creating a threat to the EU and U.S.A


Con’s Rebuttal:


First, Con would like to point out Russia invading former Soviet states and maintaining influence in Eastern Europe bears little resemblance to the USSR and its expansionists approach bent on world domination, including Latin America, Western Europe (East Germany), South East Asia, etc. Besides that, Pro did not explain how Russia poses a threat to the United States. Are you going to use nukes? Over what?



The middle eastern uprisings is a direct result of America fiddling around and cooping nations in the region. And these nations are now siding with the Russians (E.G. Egypt).


Con’s Rebuttal:


Con does not understand the purported logic in this argument either. However, Pro’s logic seems to link countries’ sympathies for Russia and “America fiddling around” but then fails to demonstrate we reach the conclusion: the Cold War never ended. When did Egypt side with Russia? The US provides direct military and foreign aid to Egypt, not to mention our support for their military regime. Now Bashar al-Assad’s regime in Syria and Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran support Russia and have in the past because if they didn’t the US would more likely than not, invade, and overthrow their governments. With that said, it is hard to figure out how the main proposition shows the Cold War never ended.



Debate Round No. 2
Eca

Pro

First off I would like to apologize about the first two forfeits, it seems every time I have a debate my computer breaks. So please forgive me on that point.

So my opponent seems to think that the cold war was just a nuclear war, when in fact, nukes were involved, however were simply a 'Reason' for the two nations to have at it politically. No nuclear war would've been likely if either the Soviet Union or U.S.A were the clear super power. and since there was no clear super power nuclear war was an option to prove who was boss. And with the fall of the Soviet Union many thought America was the undisputed super power to follow or pay the price. However: Russian never felt that they lost. They felt they were down and were anticipating greatly to get up. Knowing quite a few Russian friends, I can confirm this. And even Vladimir Putin agrees: http://townhall.com...
IIn fact, the current crisis in Ukraine just proves Russia is thirsty to have a bigger say in world politics. So the cold war was much more than that.


Then my opponent then makes to reside and forget that 'the Cold War' is now a name, no longer stating what state the war is in. That's why when you say 'The cold war' people know you're talking about the USSR vs U.S.A.

America was fighting a proxy war in Afghanistan to fight the Russian invaders, and then sent troops to both Vietnam and Korea to stop the spread of communism and Soviet influence. We now know that in Vietnam communism won, Korea is split and Afghanistan is riddled with terrorists (which then help neighbouring nations fall to Jihad as well). In fact, Saddam, the last current leader of Iraq, was put into power because he was US friendly and not Soviet friendly ( http://www.representativepress.org... ). Then, in 1990, he was attacked by the same people who put him there, then in 2001 he was finally removed from power creating a power vacuum that was later filled by ex-American funded terrorists groups.

The Cold War still goes on, just different sides (America VS Soviet Union turned into America Vs Russia, N. Korea, China Vs Terrorists like ISIS). And the non-state actors on the war on terrorism could be argued that terrorists were non-state actors in the cold war; after all, they're not a country.

The war on terror is far from limited to the middle east: Bombings, 9/11, etc etc can be argued that the war is in EU, America AND the middle east. However the middle east is a lot more active, but it's far from confined.

My opponent seems to forget the fact that terrorists are fighting for a Religion and Jihad/Sharia law, which is also a political ideology, meaning what's being fought over (at least for the terrorists) is the spread of Jihad, which is a political ideology, just like how in the Cold war it was Communism Vs Capitalism.


Con also seems to forget that the war is over influence, and by invading Crimea and ignoring US, EU and NATO demands to leave Ukraine, Russia is ignoring US hegemony and is proving it's (or trying to prove) stronger than the US. In fact, it's working. Expanded in the paragraph below:

Con seems to think they're is no evidence of middle eastern nations favoring Russians. Well: http://www.al-monitor.com...#
Egypt sided with Russia since Sisi went into power. He (or she) seems to think that cooping nations has nothing to do with the cold war, well America starting cooping nations DURING the cold war and now still does it. Directly resembling the fact that America has the same attitude as it did during the cold war. That's also why its military spending has gone nothing but up.

My point: The cold war looks different, and is now 3 sided (Terrorists, Russia, and USA), however it is still the same cold war.
willhudson79

Con

Pro states:

“And with the fall of the Soviet Union many thought America was the undisputed super power to follow or pay the price. However: Russian never felt that they lost. They felt they were down and were anticipating greatly to get up. Knowing quite a few Russian friends, I can confirm this. And even Vladimir Putin agrees: http://townhall.com......
IIn fact, the current crisis in Ukraine just proves Russia is thirsty to have a bigger say in world politics. So the cold war was much more than that.”

This indicates to Con the Cold War did in fact end, despite rhetoric embraced by Putin and subsequent leaders that the collapse of the USSR was akin to some kind of temporary setback. The Cold War did end, the former USSR opened up, became a market economy rather than a command economy as it once had been. Even though Pro claims the recent conflict in Ukraine “proves Russia is thirsty to have a big say in world politics,” such statements do not prove the Cold War never ended. The Cold War did end, and Russia is simply trying to maintain influence over areas it has historically exercise power over.

The Cold War did end Communism:

Russia is an authoritarian state that has adopted capitalism

Vietnam, which Pro states lost to Communism, is communist in name only. Even The Economist magazine noted in a recent editorial are "ardently capitalist communists" [1].

The same designation is true of China, where an array of western products like the IPhone is manufactured.

Why the War on Terror illustrates the Cold War end:

The War on Terror is a direct conflict that involves direct intervention between the United States and non-state actors in failed states. Now, it could be the case “Cold War never ended” only if all the groups responsible for attacking western state received funding from Russia, intelligence, and direct training. However, unlike the proxy wars characteristic of the Cold War, where the United States funded Afghan rebels to deter the Soviet Union, this dimension is absent in current conflict.

[1] "A bit of everything: Vietnam's quest for role models".The Economist (London). 24 April 2008. Retrieved 8 September 2014

Debate Round No. 3
Eca

Pro

As this is the last round please note this is the closing arguments.

“And with the fall of the Soviet Union many thought America was the undisputed super power to follow or pay the price. However: Russian never felt that they lost. They felt they were down and were anticipating greatly to get up. Knowing quite a few Russian friends, I can confirm this. And even Vladimir Putin agrees:http://townhall.com.........
IIn fact, the current crisis in Ukraine just proves Russia is thirsty to have a bigger say in world politics. So the cold war was much more than that.”

My opponent seems to think that my statement means the US won the war, whereas it states that they've won the battle but not the war. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, it was Germany Vs Poland, then later France And UK vs Germany. Does that mean the invasion of Poland was a separate war? No. It was a battle won, but the war was not over. The Cold War in the 60s for example was a battle won, but the war was not over.

The war was essentially for influence
My opponent also seems to think that the war was also about purely communism. It wasn't. Just like nuclear missiles where used to spread (or fear nations into) influence from either side, Ideologies in the cold war did play a big part. But in the end it was about spreading influence, and ideologies were a way to spread it. And even in communist states like China, yes they currently run a capitalist economy, but they are clearly trying to turn into a communist one slowly, as they know turning into one out of no where would end them up like the Soviet Union.

Switching sides does not mean the war is over or is even a new war
In World War II Italy left the Axis and joined the allies. Just like how terrorists today have left the Americans however joined their own side to make it a three sided conflict. When Italy left the Axis, does that mean WW II stopped and immediately began a new war? No it doesn't. Just like how terrorists left the Americans.
willhudson79

Con

willhudson79 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Max.Wallace 2 years ago
Max.Wallace
The cold war will turn hot soon. Thanks to you appeasers of tyrants. When the bombs fall there is no one to blame but ourselves, and especially our leaders.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
Try Studying the works of Austrian Economics Professor Ludwig von Mises, such as his book "Human Action: A Treatise on Economics" (1949) .

von Mises proved that ideologies like Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Maoism, Nazism, Terrorism, etc. , don't work, never did work, never will work.
There never was an actual "Cold War" , "WW II" , "War on Terrorism" , etc.
They were Unnecessary Fakes.

For Cheyennebodie:
Crazy Obama is no more our president or leader than you are.
Free people, Free societies, Free countries, like This one, don't Have such things.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
The only reason that Putin is doing what he is doing is because our president is as shallow AS HE CAN BE.If Putin had wanted to make opposition to him go away, he could not have had a better leader than who we have.Obama is like a child. A spoiled and rotten child.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RobertMcclureSmith 2 years ago
RobertMcclureSmith
Ecawillhudson79Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: This was a close one. Both FF hurt both sides. However, after reading the debate, Pro?s side failed to make a persuasive, well-reasoned case that the Cold War never ended. Mostly, though I felt Con countered Pro?s claims and Pro failed to live up to his BOP.