The Instigator
askbob
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points
The Contender
1994bookworm
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

The Color Blue

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/28/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,002 times Debate No: 5837
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (5)

 

askbob

Pro

The color blue (meaning all shades of blue) is a very popular color. On this debate we will argue why this color is so popular.

In this debate I will be affirming that the color blue is a popular color for males because of factors that are not peer pressure and society's approval of this color for males.

To make this a little clearer so the person who accepts this debate will understand.

I will argue that the color blue is popular because say the sky is blue and exists pleasantly in nature. My opponent will argue that people are influenced by society and peers and their opinions are influenced on peer pressure etc.

Resolved: The color blue (being all colors) is a popular color due mainly to other reasons besides peer and societal influence.

I do not wish that my opponent argue that people can view colors differently through there eyes etc. The whole philosophy argument that my blue is your yellow etc.

Thank you for accepting this debate (whoever accepts it)
1994bookworm

Con

I thank my opponent for an opportunity to about this interesting, yet unusual topic.

In my argument, I will be arguing that the popularity of the color blue (for guys) is an effect of peer pressure.

For clarity, I offer the following definition:
peer pressure: social pressure by members of one's peer group to take a certain action, adopt certain values, or otherwise conform in order to be accepted. (from dictionary.com)

My opponent says that "the color blue is popular because say the sky is blue and exists pleasantly in nature." However, i disagree because many other colors also exist in nature but are not considered "popular" for males (an example of this would be the color pink for the wildflowers.) Why is pink not a "popular" color for males? Mainly because pink is associated with girls and buys do not want to be thought of as "girly" so they reject this color. This is an example of peer pressure.

People also struggle to be accepted by the society. If they believed that one thing was more acceptable than another, then they would hurry to conform. Research also shows that peer pressure has more impact on adolescent behavior than any other factor. (http://www.aspeneducation.com...) While most people associate peer pressure with the pressure to do drugs, to get a girl/boyfriend, etc, peer pressure also influences the smaller areas in our life, such as our opinions. We, as people, want to be accepted by society. No one wants to be an outcast. Therefore, we do whatever is possible to be accepted--in this case, caving in to peer pressure.

For the reasons stated above, blue is a popular color because of peer pressure and influences that are not our own opinions.
Debate Round No. 1
askbob

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for embarking on such a unique debate with me. I would like to additionally thank my opponent for posting definitions (which I accept)

I would like to start out this debate by resolving and clarifying my argument of why members of the male sex prefer the color blue. I used the color of the sky merely as an example to clarify the purpose of my resolution. My resolution is clearly stated as being:

"Resolved: The color blue (being all colors) is a popular color due mainly to other reasons besides peer and societal influence."

To affirm my resolution I will start by proving this issue first through genetics.

"Researchers in a study at Newcastle University led by neuroscientist Anya Hurlbert asked a group of men and women to look at about 1,000 pairs of coloured rectangles on a computer screen in a dark room and pick the ones they liked best as quickly as possible.

Afterwards, Hurlbert and colleagues plotted the results along the colour spectrum and found that while men prefer blue, women gravitate towards the pinker end of the blue spectrum.

Hurlbert believes women's preference for pink may have evolved on top of a natural, universal preference for blue.

Hurlbert said for men, thinking about colours was less important because as hunters they just needed to spot something dark and shoot it."

As for the wider human preference for blue, Dr Hurlbert said this may have something to do with our love for the grassy plains of our place of origin, in Africa, where the sky is an important feature of the landscape.

"I would favour evolutionary arguments here," she said. "Going back to our 'savannah' days, we would have a natural preference for a blue sky, because it signalled good weather."

http://www.cbc.ca...
http://www.reuters.com...
http://www.time.com...

As the study has shown, color preference has become differentiated between sexes due to our ancient job-roles.

Additionally we as humans are not the only species that have color preferences based on evolutionary reasons. For example note that a species of bumblebee prefer a color of flower for evolutionary reasons:
http://www.foxnews.com...

Males prefer the color blue due to a special type of sexual dimorphism. This is evidenced by the study done and by the evidence of other evolutionary color preferences

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The whole idea of "pink for girls and blue for boys" was not common practice in the US until the 20th century. In the 1800s, all babies were dressed in white dresses, which extended below their legs (that hardly seems like a practical garment, but apparently crawling was not encouraged back then). In the early 1900s, color became popular and people who chose to dress their children in conventional colors were advised to dress girls in blue and boys in pink. Blue was considered delicate and exquisite and pink strong and masculine. In one of their issues from 1927, Time Magazine wrote ""In Belgium, Princess Astrid gave birth a fortnight ago to a 7-lb. daughter. The cradle . . . had been optimistically outfitted in pink, the color for boys, that for a girl being blue." It was not until the 1950's we started doing the reverse, and these days, few people would decorate their little boy's room in pink. It does help to identify the sex of a baby; I can never tell if (dressed) babies are boys or girls, but if the child in question is wearing a pink dress, you can be pretty sure it's not a boy.

Regardless of how children were dressed, it seems like girls all over the world have always liked the color pink.

I would like to thank my opponent for such an interesting response but would like to affirm that males prefer the color blue due evolutionary patterns rather than societal pressure.
1994bookworm

Con

I am happy to be of assistance.
* * *
I would like to point out that my that the resolution states that: "The color blue (being all colors) is a popular color due mainly to other reasons besides peer and societal influence." My opponent never specified the time period so I will assume that he is talking about the current society.

However, my opponent goes on to say that "As the study has shown, color preference has become differentiated between sexes due to our ancient job roles." Now, the definition of society (taken from dictionary.com) is: "an organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes." or, in biology, it is: "a closely integrated group of social organisms of the same species exhibiting division of labor." Therefore, our ancient job roles belong in the definition of society and fall under the category of "societal influence" because men only like the color blue because of what their gender-role in society. With that, my opponent has just went against his own side in this debate.

Next, my opponent went on to talk about bumblebees preferring the color violet because (as quoted from the site): "The favorite color of the buff-tailed bumblebee (Bombus terrestris), violet in its case, could help it find more sweet nectar, scientists now find." The reason for the bumblebee liking violet is because violet flowers produce the sweetest nectar. This is another example of societal influence because a worker bumblebee's role in its society is to find nectar in order to make honey. If it did not complete that role, then it would not be able to survive. While the bumblebee has evolved to like the color violet, evolution happened because of societal influence.

Also, with the sexual dimorphism example, males prefer the color blue due to their survival instincts. However, as the biological definition of society stated, a society is a group of organisms who each have their own role. Therefore, any preference of color due to sexual dimorphism is an example of societal influence.

Finally, my opponent goes on to say that "the whole idea of "pink for girls and blue for boys" was not common practice in the US until the 20th century." Since my opponent has not specified time period (as stated earlier) I am assuming that he is refering to "now." Therefore, the idea of pink for girls and blue for boys is a result of societal influence. If the study by Dr. Hurbert was done in the early 1900's, the results might have been different and might have showed that men liked pink because "blue was considered delicate and exquisite and pink strong and masculine" in the early 1900s.

My opponent ends by saying: "Regardless of how children were dressed, it seems like girls all over the world have always liked the color pink." This would be because of societal influence.
***

I would like to thank my partner for such a prompt reply and am interested in seeing how this debate will continue.
Debate Round No. 2
askbob

Pro

I would like to again thank my opponent for a prompt rebuttal which effectively has used many of my own words and points against myself.

I would like to apologize for making it clear in my resolution that I am indeed referring to today's color preferences and not the color preferences of individuals hundreds of years ago.

I do, however, think I made it quite clear in which context I was speaking of when I indicated "societal influence" in my resolution. The second sentence of R1 clearly indicates that societal influence is: "peer pressure and society's approval of this color for males" in the context of this debate.

Furthermore, my opponent's main premise in her response simply is that ancient job roles were dictated by societal approval rather than physical abilities. While this indeed is a valid argument, the evidence behind this conjecture is lacking in the extreme.

Testosterone is considered a male hormone but is actually an androgen (a hormone that affects tissue regeneration). It encourages bone density, lean muscle mass, sex drive, and a few other traits in both men and women. Since men have higher levels of testosterone these traits tend to be stronger in them than in women.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
For this reason societal jobs were created due to natural superiority in the field of strength rather than "society's approval" or "peer pressure". Explicitly, jobs originated out of natural abilities rather than societal approval for these jobs.

Therefore this refutation is rendered null.

Subsequently, my opponent goes onto make the same null point when referencing the bumblebee. I do find that my opponent has mistakenly tried to slant the concept of evolution to match this argument in her favor. It is quite clear that evolution occurs primarily do to the need to adapt and to survive. Not because members in a society approve of this job roles. These job roles are assigned simply because it betters the chance of surviving.

"Natural selection is the process by which favorable heritable traits become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable heritable traits become less common, due to differential reproduction of genotypes. Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to >>>>survive<<<< ...than those with less favorable phenotypes."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore my opponents argument that societal approval dictates natural selection is rendered null.

My opponent again resolves to semantics to argue the case of sexual dimorphism and twists the meaning of societal influence to suit her own purposes.

Then, my opponent attempts to refute the study itself after trying to sway its results in her favor. However, my opponent does make a legitimate argument when she conjectured that had the study been taken in the time frame where pink was designated for boys and blue for girls (1920s - 1940s) there may have been different results.

However, my opponent has provided no evidence refuting the study's findings, or showing that such would be the case. Additionally, only in the 1920s were different gender colors assigned in Western Culture, however there is no evidence that popular colors were any different than they are today. Additionally a poll was done in 1939 , Parents magazine polled customers in a New York department store and found that 80% of shoppers preferred blue for boys and pink for girls. This may be an assumption, however it resides from a logical premise: that favorite colors did simply not change in the course of 19 years.
http://www.gentlebirth.org...

Burkitt, Barrett, and Davis (2003) studied color preference in 330 U.K. children (age range=4-11 years). Each child was shown 10 colored cards (black, blue, brown, green, orange, pink, purple, red, white, and yellow) and asked to point to his or her favorite color.

"There were, however, some interesting patterns in the Affect and Nature justifications as a function of color type. When we compared the colors pink/purple vs. blue, the former was more likely to elicit Affect justifications, whereas the latter was more likely to elicit Nature justifications. Affect (i.e., a focus on the subjective, internal world) is commonly associated with femininity whereas Nature (i.e., a focus on the objective, external world) is commonly associated with masculinity.

3) Affect: The child provided a specific emotion or affectively-based justification (e.g., "It makes me happy" or "It's a pretty color").

(4) Nature: The child provided a nature-based justification (e.g., "I like the color of grass")."
http://findarticles.com...

This final study shows the reasoning behind the color choices in children and further backs my argument of a genetic principle for color preferences.

(1) Gender-Specific or -Linked: The child provided a gender-specific (e.g., "Because it is a pretty girl color") or gender-linked justification (e.g., "Because it is like Spiderman").

(2) Personal: The child provided an individualized justification that was not clearly gender-linked (e.g., "It's the color of my wall").

The following reasons were also included in the study however the top justifications were 3 and 4, which clearly indicate that color preference is not gender biased. Furthermore it supports my argument that color preference originates from evolution/genetics.

I have clearly resolved that color preference originates from a source other than peer pressure or society's approval of that color. Color preference originates by evolution/genetics. My opponent has clearly accepted the validity of the first scientific study resolving this, because he has not refuted the validity of it (only that results may have been different if conducted in another time period). Therefore as a result I have affirmed my resolution and strongly urge all voters to vote Pro in this debate.

I appreciate my opponents participation in this debate and would like to thank voters for reading it.

I strongly encourage all members voting to leave a reason for their response. Members who vote but leave no reasons for their decisions will not be counted in the final vote.
1994bookworm

Con

My opponent states that: "Testosterone is considered a male hormone but is actually an androgen (a hormone that affects tissue regeneration). It encourages bone density, lean muscle mass, sex drive, and a few other traits in both men and women. Since men have higher levels of testosterone these traits tend to be stronger in them than in women.
http://en.wikipedia.org......
For this reason societal jobs were created due to natural superiority in the field of strength rather than "society's approval" or "peer pressure". Explicitly, jobs originated out of natural abilities rather than societal approval for these jobs."
However, if the voters will remember, this debate is about males' preference for the color blue, NOT about natural superiority of men to women or gender roles in a society. Since this argument does not, in any way, connect back to the resolution, this argument cannot be used against me and is therefore rendered null.

Further, my opponent goes on to say "It is quite clear that evolution occurs primarily do to the need to adapt and to survive. Not because members in a society approve of this job roles. These job roles are assigned simply because it betters the chance of surviving.

"Natural selection is the process by which favorable heritable traits become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable heritable traits become less common, due to differential reproduction of genotypes. Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to >>>>survive<<<< ...than those with less favorable phenotypes.""
However, like his previous argument, my opponent seems to have forgotten that the subject of this debate is about males preference for color, not the reasons for evolution or natural selection. Therefore, this argument does not, in anyway, help my opponent's case and cannot be used against me. This argument is rendered null.

My opponent then goes on to say that: "a poll was done in 1939 , Parents magazine polled customers in a New York department store and found that 80% of shoppers preferred blue for boys and pink for girls. This may be an assumption, however it resides from a logical premise: that favorite colors did simply not change in the course of 19 years."
This argument, while valid, does not show that blue is preferred by males for reasons other than peer pressure and societal influence. The poll that was done found that 80% of shoppers preferred blue for males and pink for girls. Since most shoppers are females, this shows nothing about males' preference for the color blue. It only shows society approval for the color for males. I would like to thank my opponent for furthering my point.

Then my opponent continues by saying: "When we compared the colors pink/purple vs. blue, the former was more likely to elicit Affect justifications, whereas the latter was more likely to elicit Nature justifications. Affect (i.e., a focus on the subjective, internal world) is commonly associated with femininity whereas Nature (i.e., a focus on the objective, external world) is commonly associated with masculinity.
3) Affect: The child provided a specific emotion or affectively-based justification (e.g., "It makes me happy" or "It's a pretty color").
4) Nature: The child provided a nature-based justification (e.g., "I like the color of grass")."
http://findarticles.com......
This final study shows the reasoning behind the color choices in children and further backs my argument of a genetic principle for color preferences.
(1) Gender-Specific or -Linked: The child provided a gender-specific (e.g., "Because it is a pretty girl color") or gender-linked justification (e.g., "Because it is like Spiderman").
(2) Personal: The child provided an individualized justification that was not clearly gender-linked (e.g., "It's the color of my wall").

However, in my opponents (3), where the child liked a color because it made them happy, reasons why the color did make them happy is probably because their parents surrounded them around that color in their childhood and seeing that color mad them feel safe. This is an excellent example of societal influence.
My opponent's (1) states that the child provided a gender specific (e.g. a pretty girl color). How did the child know that the color was a GIRL color? How does the child know about Spiderman? The answer is that this all happened because of societal influence. A child was not born know what a "girl" color is or what a "boy" color is, nor does it know who Spiderman is. Finally, in my opponents (4), he stated that the child provided a justification that was individualized (e.g. it's the color of my wall) Those individualized preferences were the result of their parent's influence. Houses were not built, already painted. Instead, parents choose the color for their children's room, causing the child to like that color, thus, influencing their child. These all show societal influence.

I have clearly shown that the resolved color is popular for males because of society's influence. My opponent has gotten distracted and has made arguments that were not at all related to the resolution. He has also made some very good arguments in my defense. Therefore, I urge all voters to vote Con in this debate.

I thank my opponent for his time and for providing this debate.
I thank voters for reading this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dumbchic 6 years ago
Dumbchic
I liked the other guy's argument better.
Posted by askbob 8 years ago
askbob
Vote Tally

Pro: 4 points by Users: manutdredseal46 (4)
Con: 0 points
Posted by manutdredseal46 8 years ago
manutdredseal46
Due to the fact that the user askbob is collecting votes through comments, I would like to give my vote at this time. My vote is for askbob (overall). As for the details and why, (this comes directly from normal voting) I was neutral before the debate and I am still neutral as of right now. I think both debaters had good conduct spelling and grammar, no separation there. I think that askbob's points were better written and well thought out (no offense to 1994bookworm, hers were just not as good). Throughout the debate askbob kept giving us sources just about all the time, compared to just a few here and there for 1994bookworm so he will get the edge in that category as well. And there you have it. I would like to thank the debaters for giving us such an interesting debate to read, and with this I end my comment.
Posted by askbob 8 years ago
askbob
The member DNick will be unbanned on the following date:

December 10th, 5:42 Eastern Standard Time
Posted by askbob 8 years ago
askbob
The member known as: Dnick has received a month long ban for violation of the TOS #7

Found here for reference:
http://www.debate.org...

Since his vote was cast after the violation, his vote will not be counted.

So far the count is:

0 points Pro
0 points Con
Posted by Dnick94 8 years ago
Dnick94
Violation of the new TOS; inappropriate comments about the votes of others. Respect others people's wishes.

In other words, from askbob:
Will the babbling idiot please refrain from pouring his unintelligenence over this site?

Thank you.

Dnick94 voting as an unofficial Cleaner,

Conduct: Tie. No sides has made improper conduct and were acceptable. Both had thanked each other for the debate, therefore they are tied.

Spelling and Grammar: Tie. A quick copy and pasted shows that both sides had minor spelling and grammar mistakes. However, both sides were just as understandable.

Most convincing arguments: Pro. Con forgotten that she was the one who stated societal approval dictates natural selection and that Pro was refuting it. It was her argument which she has conceded. She also stated that "blue is preferred by males for reasons other than peer pressure and societal influence." However, she was unable to back it up with any evidence other than logical reasoning which cannot be used solely to refute an argument. Con stated that parents surrounding them with the color is an example of societal influence. Although this is logical reasoning, without any evidence to back it up, this is merely a claim. When Con said probably, it meant she was unsure whether the claim was true or not. She was basically saying that society's influence was the reason why males prefer blue. However, with no proof, this is also a claim. That is why males in other countries don't prefer other colors such as green, black, purple, or orange.

Reliable sources: Pro. Pro provided many sources to affirm his claims. Con had few sources and couldn't refute any more arguments with them.

Points to note:
1) CON, get more sources that either back your claims or refute your opponents. That way, you'll have a stronger argument.
2) CON, logical reasoning is good, but only when you can provide sources so we know what you are saying isn't wild guesses.
Posted by antisemantic 8 years ago
antisemantic
Dnick said,
Hey askbob, guess what?

According to voting charts, antisemantic voted against you.
That is proof of vote bombing which antisemantic cannot refute, but can deny.

I shriveled up my nose, bounced my head back and forth and put my hand on my hip when I repeated that. I think I did an excellent impersonation of Dnick.

Have you ever seen that movie where the cows talk, remember that kid that tipped the cows and "that's cow tipping"? That is who reminds me of you Dnick.

Vote bombing can not be done alone. It is not like the last time you had a orgasm? That was not sex, you can not have sex alone Dnick. It takes two to institute a sexual experience. That is just like vote bombing. It takes at least two. he he he he. LOL.
Posted by antisemantic 8 years ago
antisemantic
Who did you agree with before the debate?
CON. Personal. NO explanation needed
Who did you agree with after the debate?
CON. Personal. NO explanation needed.
Who had better conduct?
CON.I feel Con had better conduct. I felt Pro was tiring to force me to believe some study tells me what I think and why I do things.
Who had better spelling and grammar?
CON. I did not put this into a Word processor, but I could understand Con much better then I could Pro.
Who made more convincing arguments?
CON. CON convinced me. I do not wear pink because it is for girls, personal opinion ladies, please no hating. I like blue because it is very neutral color. Black seems to gothy, yellow too bright. I do not make any statements about myself with my clothing so I prefer simply neutral colors.
Who used the most reliable sources?
CON. Some study made by some professor does not institute reliability. The men in the study could have been picking blue for the very reason I pick blue. And that is why CON has my votes.

Pro, you may want to steer clear of debate topics that based on personal opinions. They are a very fascinating topics but in the end very hard to debate.

If this had been a more personal debate then I could have voted for you if your arguments did convince me. You could have explained why you like to wear the color pink, or hot pink. Or why you wear women's underwear, THAT would have definitely got my vote.

I know I am banned but I was just demonstrating how ridicules this whole "voting as a cleaner" BS really is.

I better way to do what y'all are pretending to do is drop the act and just advice the debater that needs the help in certain places. And an even better way would be BEFORE you debate someone, but of course, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO YOUR WIN RATIO????????

Wait a sec!?!?!?!? Didn't y'all denounce your win ratio? The only votes you count are the votes from other cleaners right? riigghttttttttttttt How funny is that.
Posted by askbob 8 years ago
askbob
Correct.
Posted by Dnick94 8 years ago
Dnick94
Oh I get what you're saying: NTOS
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by askbob 6 years ago
askbob
askbob1994bookwormTied
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Vote Placed by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
askbob1994bookwormTied
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Vote Placed by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
askbob1994bookwormTied
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Vote Placed by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
askbob1994bookwormTied
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
askbob1994bookwormTied
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