The Instigator
JasonMartin-327
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
alyfish126
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The Color Red

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
alyfish126
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,055 times Debate No: 58245
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

JasonMartin-327

Pro

Just thought I'd get a little warm-up before GITC comes out and I'll be able to do my comeback AvITBA debate. This one's pretty simple, I will simply explain why the color red is a good color and why it should NOT be portrayed in the bad ways, and my opponent will try (but most likely not succeed) to prove me wrong. I will begin by introducing whatever I feel like I should. My introduction is obviously that red is a good color and shouldn't have any sort of portrayal as a violent or bad color. Here's one of the sources for my inspiration:

https://www.youtube.com...

I also have a good ton of other good sources that I will use. Rules:

Time to argue: 3 days
Rounds: 3
Max ch. 6,000

I will be waiting patiently for someone to dare challenge me. Previous opponents (and therefore may not accept):
Blade-Of-Truth
numberwang
Mastery

Paint the whole world...:)
alyfish126

Con

I accept
Debate Round No. 1
JasonMartin-327

Pro

Right, well, let's get started...with the middle. Here are my reasons for my argument. I got them all in an email from Aviators when I asked him about the song.

He stated that the reason he chose red is because it's a bright color that stands out. It's the color of blood, which keeps us alive. It's the color of roses, lips, and so much more. It fits the theme of love better than any other color he knows. For quite a while, the media has portrayed red as a violent color, but neither I nor Aviators thinks it deserves that association. It's the color of human essence, and he believes there is more good in that essence than bad.

Now, I have to confess that it may or may not be me that sees all this in red, but Aviators most certainly does, and I just choose to agree with him because it's very inspiring. And I guess after a while of thinking about what he said to me (this was actually a few months ago), I've come to realize that not only do I agree with him, but I too have a great positive vision of the color red, much similar to his, but still inspiring either way.

If you're just tuning in here and have no idea what my point is, here, viewers:

https://soundcloud.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
(Hmm, the music store link has been removed...)

Anyway, you get the picture. Why should I trust this man, you ask? Because Aviators is truly the most inspiring artist I know. In fact, Red is actually part of a whole message with his newest album, and that message is, well, I can't quite reveal now, but I probably should, because this is probably the time in the debate to do so. I don't really wanna reveal the theme here, because this time is probably considered the calm before the storm of the album release, but I believe I can give you this:

https://www.youtube.com...

Well, I guess there's nothing left to say except...(*snicker* we'll paint the whole world red...) I will be patiently waiting for my opponent's argument.
alyfish126

Con

0. "It's the color of blood, which keeps us alive. It's the color of roses, lips, and so much more."

a. Red is the color of blood, blood keeps us alive. However, if the red blood is seen, then usually someone is loosing blood. More blood, more red, less life. Generally, you want to stop the red.

172502-3980-8wn37-a.jpg

http://www.blscprtraining.com...

b. Yes it is the color of most roses, and roses are socially beautiful and romantic. However, roses have thorns, and roses with thorns are not very romantic without some form of protection. The red color of roses is a sign to stay away because they are dangerous. They are not only dangerous because of the thorns, but roses also have high levels of cyanide which is dangerous [1]

172502-3980-bdacn-a.jpg

http://www.ninaijere.com...

c. Ehh, lips are not generally red... as seen below, they are all shades of pink. Even if they were red, the primary function of lips is suction (at birth for breast feeding), and to seal our mouths to keep food from falling out when we eat. Does not fit the love theme very well...

172502-3980-y3wk5-a.jpg

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

1. Red in the natural world:

a. Insects with red colors are generally toxic and the red stops predators from eating them [2]. Ladybugs, though beautiful, are a toxic meal.

172502-3980-zgdrz-a.jpg

https://www.dosomething.org...

b. Fire is orange and red. Fire can be beautiful, but is always hot and dangerous. Do not get too close to fire.

172502-3980-qzyn3-a.jpg

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net...

c. Fall is a beautiful. Fall has a lot of red leaves. This red is a sign of death. When a leaf looses its green clorophyll, it is not getting enough light and CO2 and it is dying. Even in strawberries and tomatoes, red is the last color they show before they die.

172502-3980-kqayz-a.jpg

http://www.permies.com...

2. Red in the human world:

a. Stop signs, red lights, brake lights, fire trucks, Santa Clause, Target, CVS, and Coke-a-Cola. The former mean "stop" or "danger". They all get people's attention (see 4.).

3. Red in religion:

a. Devil, hell. Generally not preferable.

172502-3980-8wbab-a.jpg

http://canitbesaturdaynow.com...

b. The red chakra is the lowest of them all. It is the root or the base for all of the other chakras. If someone needs to work on their red chakra, they are generally insecure, aggressive, self-pitying, and fearful [4].

172502-3980-z5xdx-a.jpg

http://covingtonweekly.com...

c. Red aura: "materialistic thoughts, thoughts about the physical body. Predominantly red Aura indicates materialistically oriented person" [5].

172502-3980-gsqr5-a.jpg

http://www.danielamouser.com...

4. Fear of red is instinctual to even humans:

a. The sympathetic and parasympathetic divisions are the part of the autonomic nervous system, which is responsible for the body's automatic reactions. Normally the parasympathetic is in control, but when humans and other animals are faced with danger, the sympathetic (often called the fight or flight reaction because immediate attention is needed) kicks in. Red increases pulse/heartrate, blood pressure [6], reaction rate, and strength [7]. All of these physical reactions are indicators of a stimulated sympathetic nervous system. This could also be why red is often associated with courage, team colors in sports, and even desire, lust, and "love". Whatever is red automatically demands attention.

172502-3980-cbyce-a.jpg

http://blog.shadygrovefertility.com...

5. Current conclusion:

a. Like a lady in a red dress, red may be beautiful and desirable, but in nature, society, and religion, it generally means danger/death, stop, and bad. Animals instinctively know red as a color to avoid. This experiment shows it in monkeys http://io9.com... this one shows it in birds http://www.nature.com...

b. Ultimately, the color red should be used by the media to portray bad and violence because it is related to blood, and because it stimulates our "fight or flight" reactions making us more attentive.



6. Sources:

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk...;
[2] http://insects.about.com...
[3] http://www.color-wheel-pro.com...;
[4] http://threeheartscompany.com...
[5] http://www.thiaoouba.com...;
[6] http://www.psychologistworld.com...;
[7] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...;
Debate Round No. 2
JasonMartin-327

Pro

Oh man, where do I start on this? Well just because blood gives us life and less of it would mean less life, really doesn't mean that it HAS to be outside of our bodies for you to know that it's there. Blood was always meant to stay inside our bodies, and that's the way it will be from now.

Also, the reason that some roses are dangerous to close proximity is because they want you to only feel the visual beauty in them, and try to remember and understand the visual beauty in nature itself. And even though the color of nature is green, green also signifies passing years -- as indicated in the Aviators song -- the archenemy of what you're supposed to do with nature, which is stop and look at the beauty and cherish the moments you do. And there really is no brighter, better way of doing that than with adding a fair splash of red.

I too did not understand the lips thing; however, they are not all pink, some of them may always happen to be red, and let's be real here, pink is merely a softer, lighter, less-brighter version of red. And since pink is in second place for fitting the color of love, there really is no difference except for the slight girlishness and brightness of the two.

Insects? Same deal with the roses; they're toxic and dangerous only because they want you to stop and appreciate their visual beauty, which I once did while rescuing a ladybug from my school playground. And for someone merely looking at nature, observing and studying the natural world, I'm sure I'd get a lot of agreements.

Oh man, I really don't wanna waste my characters by repeating the last couple points fire-wise. And I won't.

Fall? Not nearly as beautiful as spring. Okay, that's not helping. Wait!...The only reason that red signifies plant death is merely to remind you that for every death, there will always be life waiting on the other side. Green or white? Nah, I believe life goes really great with love (seriously, why am I doing it again? This is not helping!) and I guess without good in one of them, there wouldn't be good in the other.

Human world? Basically the same thing I have motioned to repeat over and over, just STOP and take a look around! See beauty in everything and love it. There's no color that's better at doing that than red. It's bright, and it stands out, which gets attention more than any other color I know.

Religion? Really? Religion has like a TON of things that I consider just plain stupid. That's why neither I nor Aviators is religious (hopefully, or I'd quite be making a fool) and actually take the time to recognize every single figure of red, everything that it signifies, and everything that it should and should not. And, uh oh, it seems a tiny mistake has been made by mentioning the aura, because it would only seem that a red one would be a little better than a white one, as the song has always kept in mind.

Instinctual fear? Well, that's a huge part of what Aviators's newest album is trying to message, which is the reason why the song exists in the first place.

"There is a code inside of us all. A system of hard-wired laws and functions. There are mysteries in our minds; secrets in our souls. What lies beneath the code? Have you found the ghosts in the code of who you are?" -- Aviators

Basically what I'm trying to point out is that not every single human instinct and reaction to red is chronically a part of the human lifestyle; THAT'S actually discovering who you are and learning new things that no one else has learned before, and since GITC all the way signifies that, the association of "Red" is no different. Red signifies a lot of things that demand attention because of its bright nature, including human essence, and because of many things, including the message of the song, there's more good in that essence (and pretty much all other stuff it signifies) than bad.

Al in all, my concluding point is that naturally, we are all corrupt and need to realize all the truths and lies, and good and bad in us, and red can be quite better than black at doing that. Red should not have the violent and generally bad association and recognizance because there's more good and love-signification in its image than bad. And let's face it, the only real bad color that has the most type of association that red has is black, because there's really no color in it, and therefore makes the world a boring and bleak place (I guess that means white and grey have that same effect, Oi?).

Well, I guess that should just about be it. I guess I've pretty much summed up all my points and visions, so I guess I'll be done here.
alyfish126

Con

I will be giving rebuttals for three reasons:
(1) The rules given did not suggest otherwise.
(2) I asked pro in a message if he was okay with it; unfortunately, he did not reply.
(3) There were new arguments presented by pro in round three (red is bright, red means to stop and appreciate, etc.)
Deduction of conduct points based on these rebuttals is at (a) your discresion (b) pro's discression if he comments against final rebuttals.

"Well just because blood gives us life and less of it would mean less life, really doesn't mean that it HAS to be outside of our bodies for you to know that it's there. Blood was always meant to stay inside our bodies, and that's the way it will be from now."
My point was, the red is hidden until it is outside the body, and for life to continue, most of the red blood must remain hidden inside the body. When you see red comming from your person, I'd recommend you prevent seeing more red comming from your person.

"[roses] want you to only feel the visual beauty in them, and try to remember and understand the visual beauty in nature itself"
"[insects] want you to stop and appreciate their visual beauty"


If roses and bugs "want" something from me, I know their desire (food, water, sun, don't step on them) because of past experience with plants and insects of all colors, not because they are red.

"lips are not all pink, some of them may always happen to be red, and let's be real here, pink is merely a softer, lighter, less-brighter version of red. And since pink is in second place for fitting the color of love, there really is no difference except for the slight girlishness and brightness of the two." (emphasized by me)
I believe lips were agreed to be generally pink, pink is the mixture of white and red, pink is not red. Some doctos say womans biologically innate preference for "girlish" pink could be because it comes in handy for recognizing a childs flushed face - a sign of sickness [2]. Unrelated, but fun fact!

"STOP and take a look around! See beauty in everything and love it. There's no color that's better at doing that than red."
Stop? yes, I concur. However, it does not logically follow to see beauty. ie. bleeding, ambulance/firetruck, CVS pharmacy, brake lights in traffic, etc. While some may see beauty when red makes them stop, others do not, and will not see beauty in red. In my opinion, I totally agree, people should "stop and smell the roses" so to speak. Unfortunately, I find no rational and empirical evidence in support of my opinion and I cannot agree based on opinion.

The religious aspects of red were simply used to further support my point. While pro may consider a lot of religion "just plain stupid," many value religion and it's symbols. However, pro is correct about the auras. It appears my source was mistaken. I have provided 3 more sources that describe white as purity, giftedness, and truth; Red as potentially angry and anxious [3] [4] [5].

"Red signifies a lot of things that demand attention because of its bright nature, including human essence, and because of many things, including the message of the song, there's more good in that essence (and pretty much all other stuff it signifies) than bad."
Generally, blue colors are the dimmest, greens are perceived as the brightest, and red is between blue and green. "Colors within the range 555 to 560 nanometres (green towards yellow) are perceived by the human eye as being the brightest of all the colors from the visible spectrum" [1]. Unless human essence is blood (which is common to most of the animal kingdom), I do not see reason to agree that (1) it is, and (2) it is red.

"my concluding point is that naturally, we are all corrupt and need to realize all the truths and lies, and good and bad in us,"
Infants, before being culturally brain-washed actually prefer helping over hindering [6]. This evidence suggests innate good in humans, rather than corruption.

"the only real bad color that has the most type of association that red has is black, because there's really no color in it,"
If there is no color in black, then it is not a color but the absence of color. If black is not a color, then it cannot be a bad color.

In conclusion, pro has advocated his and "Aviator's" opinions about red. While they are great opinions, they could be seen as generally unsupported by anything more than the Aviator's. On the other hand, scientific examples and evidence has been given to (1) refute the commercialized connection between love and red, and (2) support red as a color that should continue to be used by the media in emergent and negative situations.



[1] http://www.scratchapixel.com...;
[2] http://people.howstuffworks.com...;
[3] http://www.reiki-for-holistic-health.com...
[4] http://www.in5d.com...
[5] http://psychiclibrary.com...;
[6] http://www.bbc.com...

Thank you readers for giving your time, and Thank you to Pro for the fun debate!! I enjoyed it.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by JasonMartin-327 2 years ago
JasonMartin-327
If AVIATORS says that red is the color of human essence...and that there's more good in it than bad...I'll believe anything he says, no matter what. And NOT just because he's my personal role model, oh no, his inspiration towards myself and many others is ASTRONOMICAL! You just wait till GITC comes out; it's gonna be a riot and a total life-changing event!
Posted by alyfish126 2 years ago
alyfish126
I am sorry if the pictures do not show up; there's an album on my profile if you do not want to go to all of the links.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
JasonMartin-327alyfish126Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: more sources. proved instinctivly bad