The Instigator
IsaiahaLatimer
Con (against)
The Contender
DeepInThought
Pro (for)

The Confederate Flag is a Symbol of Racism.

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Debate Round Forfeited
IsaiahaLatimer has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 169 times Debate No: 107890
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

IsaiahaLatimer

Con

This idea came to me after watching a YouTube Video about this topic. I believe that it is a symbol of Southern Pride, I had family that fought on both sides of the war. I know this is a sensitive topic so please leave your triggered uneducated topics at the door please and thank you.
DeepInThought

Pro

Hello IsaiahaLatimer. I am accepting your challenge in hopes that we can come together as civilized individuals, to discuses a very sensitive topic. I am not here to insult, or degrade anyone's culture, beliefs, or integrity, but to instead use this as an opportunity to help me in another, similar debate with an old mentor of mine.

I will let you have the first word in the second round, and would like to thank you for and wish you luck in, what I hope will be a fun and informative debate.-DeepInThought

P.S. I saw that this is your first debate on the site. I would just like to welcome you, and say that I hope to see great things from you in the future.
Debate Round No. 1
IsaiahaLatimer

Con

Thank You for being understanding and letting me start off. The Confederate Flag is a flag that is just as well known as the American Flag when it comes to Americans, but it is deemed as a negative thing due to the fact that it was the flag of the enemy in the Civil War. The Civil War was extremely bloody and caused a great deal of death. Many people believe that the south is terrible too do to the fact that it wanted to keep slavery, and I can understand that, but if you were to say all people who had slaves were bad you would say that many of our founding fathers were terrible people due to the fact that they owned slaves. Also, slavery was legal in the north for quite some time.
The Confederacy also tried to leave the Union due to that fact that they didn't like what the new president was trying to impose, and because of that they stood up for what they believed in. Isn't the ability to stand up for what you believe in what makes America great. I'm against slavery by the way.
DeepInThought

Pro

I would like start off this round by agreeing with you on several points.
1. Not all people who owned slaves where bad, in fact my own personal philosophy is that good and evil doesn't exist, but luckily for me this is not a debate about whether or not the confederates who actually didn't rely use the "confederate flag" where good or bad, but instead are arguing whether or not the flag that we associate with them, is also a symbol of racism or not. More on that later.
2. I agree that the flag is deemed as a negative thing due to the fact that it was the flag the enemy used in the Civil War, but that is not the only reason. More on that later
3. The ability to stand up for what you believe in (or freedom of speech) is the best part of America.
4. I to am against slavery.

But with after all the things we agree on, I'm afraid that I must start up my argument somewhere.

First off your argument that slavery was legal in the north for quite some time, that the founding fathers had slaves, and that the fact that the Confederacy was not only fighting for the preservation of slavery that their economy was built off of and heavily relied on, does not mean that those who owned slaves weren't racist. (as I said before, I don't believe in good and evil, I just believe that their is different sides to every argument, even when it comes to racism)

Secondly you said " The Confederacy also tried to leave the Union due to that fact that they didn't like what the new president was trying to impose." You are right, the Confederacy tried to secede for multiple reasons, including the preservation of the slave markets. But again we aren't discussing whether just the Confederacy was good or evil or even justified in their actions, we are discussing whether or not the flag is a racist symbol or not.

Thirdly, you seem to only be focusing only on the Confederacy, and forgetting that it is a symbol associated not only to the Confederacy (Despite the fact that they never used the flag that we see today, but did have some similar ones) but also to many groups that have used it afterwards. This is Important because many symbol's meanings change or deviate as certain groups get a hold of them. Take the swastika for example, a symbol that for thousands of years, represented life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. Now it represent something completely different to us.

I make this point because people and groups decide what a symbol means. Their are those who use it as a symbol of oppression and racism, they decided to make the flag a racist symbol. Groups like the KKK, the former Dixiecrats, or the neo Nazis in Germany (the Nazi flag is outlawed, so many of their neo Nazis decided to make use of the American Confederate flag instead) made sure that the flag was made to be a used as racist symbol in the modern era.

You also seem to forget that the Flag was really made popular by those who used it as a rallying call against the Civil Rights movement in support for segregation as well as the preservation of the Jim Crow Laws. It was even incorporated into some states flags, as a show of resistance against the Federal Government's orders to abolish segregation.

In the words of Dorie Ladner, an African American who was at the memorial for the four girls killed at the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham bombings, during the Civil Rights Movement said "It is important to understand that in Birmingham in 1963, Gov. George Wallace was flying the Confederate flag in defiance of President Kennedy"s calls for integration. The federalized Alabama National Guard wore the Dixie flags on their uniforms. I come from the state of Mississippi where the state government did not recognize the American flag. Alabama had the same mindset.

The Confederate flag represented state resistance to the rights of African Americans and indicated that the state upheld the atrocities, including the destruction of a place of worship and the murder of the four little girls and others.

Engulfed by atrocities and by state resistance, the American flag was the only symbol I could carry to express my sorrow and anger and to remind Alabama that it was part of the United States. The least I could do was to show that there is a federal government.

I borrowed the flag from Rev. Ed King, chaplain at Tougaloo College. I decided to carry the flag as a message. I knew that I was at risk for carrying it due to the climate there and the lack of visibility of the American flag.

I knew they would not like it. I knew that waving the American flag would make them uncomfortable. That was my intention."

The Confederate flag has been and is still used today as a symbol of racism. This is not to say that all who look up to it are racist, You can't take a group that support one thing and expect them to agree on everything, that would just be narrow minded on your own part. (the person making the assumption) But I feel as if I have successfully proven that the Confederate flag has been used as and their for is a symbol of racism.

You seem to be a very intelligent opponent and I can't wait to see what you have for me next!
It might take me some time to get back to you for the third round. I am going to be busy for the next 2 days. So thank you for your patients.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by DeepInThought 6 days ago
DeepInThought
Alright, it's been a few days since IsaiahaLatimer's time ran out, his profile says he hasn't been on for five days, and now the sight is saying that the system needs to update the debate, and to check back in a few minutes. Problem is, is that message has been their for days now.

So I think that we can call this one a bust, but if the sight does start working again and your able to vote, please do so, and thank you for your consideration.-DeepInThought.
Posted by Amphia 1 week ago
Amphia
This should be a good debate.
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