The Instigator
Pro (for)
5 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
3 Points

The Confederate Flag should be allowed on school property to repersent Herigate

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,000 times Debate No: 46174
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)




I believe that the Confederate Flag should be allowed on school property to show Southern pride and heritage in the student. Con will vote that the flag should not be seen on school property. First round is for accepting.
Thanks :)


Well, first of all I think you meant "Heritage", and not Herigate, unless of cause you happen to live in Herigate, NC? Just kidding - there is no Herigate, NC (I think?).

In any case, I accept your challenge, and will debate base on the idea that confederate flags should NOT be allowed on school property.
Debate Round No. 1


I'm Don't Think there is a heritage. I looked it up though.
I believe the Confederate flag SHOULD be allowed on school property to represent pride and heritage in the students. In many schools around the country kids are being suspended for waring the Confederate flag on a tee-shirt. In USCB a Black Student Bryon Thomas had the Confederate flag on his dorm window and was forced to take it down over hatred, But Thomas contends the flag isn't a racist symbol; he says it stands for Southern pride. I think that this was a stupid case, if the flag stood for hate of the blacks why did Tom own a Confederate Flag?
Another problem with the Confederate flag in our School System is that people believe that Southern history is taught wrong (and ill make another debate about that) and will get shirts and make a peaceful protest. These Shirts are from Dixie Outfitters a company that express the South. Some shirt designs include:
Educate Not discriminate Southern Heritage
The South Will Rise over School Censorship
The South was Right The schools are wrong
Proud of my Confederate ancestors ashamed of my Public School censorship
I Don't believe that the these type of Shirts should be forced to be taken of a child.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


My opponent makes a few good arguments, but unfortunately they are not based on facts.

Fact #1: The freedom of speech and expression is not absolute. Many countries, ours included, have restrictions on the freedom of speech. Basically, whenever your speech begins to trample on someone else's rights, feelings, etc, they are no longer protected speech. Examples of this are many, and I'm sure you may have already heard a few of them. I want to point you to one that you may not be aware of, because it clearly showcases WHY we need limitations on the freedom of speech.

In December of 1945, i.e. after the end of WWII, the allies (including Soviet Union, btw.) began to enforce a strict policy of "denazification" in Germany ("Entnazifierung"). To make a long story short, anything tied to the national socialist party in Germany is outlawed since that day, including any speeches, writings, and ... wait for it ... over one dozen different flags which are closely linked to the Nazi party and Nazi military units/campaigns. The act of waiving or owning an outlawed flag carries a penalty of no more than 3 years in jail alone.

Fact #2: The southern flag is closely linked with activities of the KKK and racial terrorism. It is a well-known symbol of American Neonazi hate groups, often displayed in nazi and skinhead rallies. It is associated with racism, anti-semitism, and fringe hate groups.

Fact #3: In public schools, we (society in the larger sense) attempts to be inclusive of all groups, all creeds, religions, etc. However, clearly, this is not possible with groups that openly preach and value social unrest, race wars, and hatred. If someone walks into a public forum wearing a T-Shirt that states "I love to hang black people from tall trees", clearly they aren't there to make new friends. They are there to spread unrest, raise anger, and essentially be a disturbance/nuisance. Their goal isn't to be part of the group, but to act as a divisive influence.

And here, I'm going to inject something that can't be counted as fact, but rather my own personal opinion (take it for what it's worth): If you choose to ignore the deeply racially biased meaning of the southern flag, the horrible oppression of people and painful, tortured history that it represents, and then misrepresenting it as "southern pride" you aren't exactly showcasing that you're some kind of poster boy for higher education or a proud citizen of your state.

Instead, you will be viewed as something that is better left behind in 1968, deservedly scorned at every opportunity (lest we repeat the mistakes of the past), and trolled out of every forum, debate, public job, and school. Calling racism something to be proud of does great disservice to our country as a whole (i.e. not just YOUR state), everyone that has suffered under that oppression (and I can offer you some really deeply disturbing documentaries, with FIRST PERSON accounts of the torture and human misery encountered in our recent past, i.e. people that are still alive today or at least were alive during the filming of said documentaries). In fact, even when this oppression was taking place the great shame of it was on display: The KKK often worked in secrecy and under veiled hoods in order to hide their identity? Think about it: How much "pride" did they feel if they had to hide their identity and their activities from the forces of justice?

Just do a google search (photos/pictures) under "KKK" and "Southern flag", and you will find validation of every single assertion I have made regarding the racially tinged history of the southern flag.

Perhaps at some point it represented nothing more than the union of southern states that separated from the United States. In NO WAY does this lessen the deplorable meaning it has today, or the deep pain and hurt it causes to people of color that have to watch it being paraded in front of their noses. Many of these very same people have family histories of loss, deprivation, abuse, and injustice. How would you feel if you were a jewish child and all your neighbors showcased their Hakenkreuz (Swastika) during pep rallies in High School? How would you feel if you were a Chinese kid and all your friends collected Japanese WWII memento related to Nanking?
Debate Round No. 2


I see what you mean about racism here

I'm sorry to tell you but the Confederate Flag was never outlawed and i've never heard of people being jail for flying one. The flag existed since 1861 and people still fly it. Another thing was that the Nazi Party hated Jewish People and wanted them off the earth as the South wanted less taxes and government

The KKK use and have a different symbol as their official flag. The second Klan stopped using the CF and used the American flag as well with their own. Nazis in America will often use the swastika or add the swastika onto the center of the CF. I believe that the Swastika should not be seen in any schools though and putting anything racist into the flag changes it meaning into racism

In schools most of us are taught that the South was evil because it kept slaves, but thats not the case. explore more into the Civil War and you will learn about who was right. I sometimes where the Confederate Flag to school and I also have friends that are black and they don't care. The Confederate Flag was never racist or will ever be racist! I'm not a racist and don't take my pride into racism.


On the surface, Pro appears to have good arguments, but I would like to simply chime in the following: His rebuttal has left the point of this debate.

The question of this debate is if "the confederate flag should be allowed on school property to represent heritage". He has left the point of the question, and instead chosen to go on a (short) diatribe how he personally isn't racist, nor that he feels that the flag represents racism.

None of that matters. The point of this debate is whether or not using symbols which are deeply divisive are appropriate in a classroom environment. The only place where a southern flag has a place in a classroom would be one that was teaching kids about racism and the terrible history of the Southern states (i.e. segregation, slavery, etc).

The assertion of my opponent that the southern flag is not a racist symbol is absurd:

I could go on and on, but I think my point is made. COMPLETELY.

In fact, just to showcase my points from earlier I even found an image (through bing) which exemplifies my position (a perfect example of an image being worth 1,000 words):

Don't kid yourself. It's HATRED, not HERITAGE.
Debate Round No. 3


I understand what you mean about the KKK using the Confederate Flag but that's not what the flags about.
Yes the KKK adopted the Flag as there UNOFFICIAL flag doesent change the history or meaning of any Confederate flag.

Links that you should see:




As it turns out, there is a really simple test to see if your assertions of the southern flag NOT BEING a symbol of racism is true.

Step 1: Buy a T-Shirt bearing the southern (confederate) flag.

Step 2: Go to a black baptist church on Sunday.

If you happen to not get your butt beaten, then you might be onto something. Otherwise, I humbly suggest that the viewpoint that using racist symbols in public schools is stupid. It's patently silly to think that this is the ONLY WAY you can display pride in your heritage. How about wearing a red scarf, a symbol of the coal union workers on their march to a neighboring coal mine, and the root of the term "red neck"? At least that term isn't associated with public lynchings, mob justice, and police brutality against colored people of the South.

Your argument is nothing more than an appeal to ignorance: "Ignore all the bad associations, or the fact that racists use the exact same symbol, because I personally find it to have a different meaning." How about this one: "I don't care that the swastika now is synonymous with antisemitism and mass murder, but where I come from it's a Celtic symbol of peace." I would like to point out, that no matter what it might have meant at some point in history, right here and now, neither the swastika nor the southern confederate flag mean anything positive in the public's eye. If someone shows up bedecked with these symbols, they are not going to be seen as outstanding, inclusive, and "southern pride" type people. They're going to be viewed in a completely different, historical light that every small school child has learned by now.

The bottom line is this: If you truly cared about your state pride, your school, or even your own neighbors, you wouldn't be suggesting this nonsense in the first place. The very fact that you are appealing to some long-forgotten version of what this symbol stood for doesn't excuse (in any way) what it stands for today. The message of the confederate flag is simply not compatible with the mission of school. Perhaps if you were to go to segregated school, it might have some (albeit highly suspect) value. Outside of that, in a world where we value DESEGREGATION and equal opportunity for all, there simply is no room for racist symbols in our school.

And yes, that's an entire YouTube channel devoted to "southern pride" according to my opponent. Where I come from, we don't call that "southern pride". We call it racism and neonazism. But hey, maybe those hooded figures are somehow, for some inexplicable reason, hiding their faces because they're proud of what they stand for.

We live in a time where we try to be more cognizant of our neighbor's feelings and attempt to at least not publicly bully or smear them just for us to be able to say that we "showed our pride" or "had fun" at their expense. Unfortunately, my opponent doesn't seem to understand the value of not being called a name or being made to feel outcast for his beliefs, color of skin, etc. Again, I don't care what color or race he is; To prove his point all he has to do is follow step #1 and #2 as outlined above, and he wins the debate.

Just post a photo of yourself standing next to an all-black choire, and I will have no trouble at all admitting my ignorance of the issue. Otherwise, I highly suggest just giving up on the idea that racist symbols will somehow be revised just because you find a couple of black kids on YouTube decrying what the symbols means to them personally. After all, I can find all kinds of music videos, etc, where black people call each other names all over the place (n@*$*r this and n^@$!r that, for example). I think everyone understands that an outsider doing the same exact thing doesn't turn him into some kind of emancipator for colored people. It turns him into a racist, and rightfully they should be scorned (and perhaps slapped around a bit depending on the situation, even?).

Start with step #1-2, and go from there. It's a very simple test, and I think it will put your mind at rest in terms of what is right and what is wrong. If you have the courage to admit to yourself that doing this isn't a good idea, then you already know the moral problem. You already sense how doing this would wrong the people of that church. How can you then possibly go on and claim that "it's just about southern pride", when it is clearly linked to "southern history".
Debate Round No. 4


The thing is you keep taking flashbacks back to the 1960's, well there all over and the Civil War ended but Southern pride and heritage didn't, nor did the flag. I hoped you looked at the links because it seemed like you didn't. I'm not a racist, i've never been and will never be. but if you want to use your Confederate flag for racism like the klan its not my problem, I'm a proud owner of five Confederate flags and never said or done anything racist with them and its NOT MY PAN TO. Those videos i shared with you were from B. Thomas who was a proud black Southern students at the USCB and was told he can't own any Confederate flags because of racism. He devoted his Youtube to his purpose of saving his flags from being taking down.

I have no problem attaching a Confederate flag on a pickup truck or walking into a black Church with the flag on. Its different than wearing a swastika and going into a synagogue. Ill tell you that when I was driving through Virginia two years ago I wore a CF shirt and walked into a McDonalds, Everyone else was Black and nothing happened, I was nice to them and they were nice to me like it was an ordinary shirt. The people probably seen a lot already because being in the South but they didn't care, so what could go wrong.



Pro's arguments from ignorance continue, even when he is posting his concluding remarks.

For example: His argument that he can legally post his flag all over the back of his pickup truck has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue at hand. The question isn't one of legality (clearly if the school board condemns an act - it's not legal), nor if pickup trucks should be bedecked with racist propaganda. The issue at hand, the very issue my opponent raised (and apparently forgot) is whether or not confederate flags should fly on school property.

I have already raised every concern which one reasonably can, and I'd like to chime in that my opponent clearly knew them before the start of this debate.

I will restate my basic premise one more time:

Freedom of speech isn't absolute. There are many, many things which will get you thrown out of campus, expelled, and possibly jailed. For example: Stating what one would do to another student with their shotgun, these days would at a bare minimum get you banned from campus for life, and possibly land you a nice vacation at the local county jail for a few weeks.

The idea that one's personal version of "heritage" somehow trumps the history of racism, race violence, and segregation - all of which are represented by the confederate flag - is absolutely ludicrous. If we were to follow my opponent's advice, there would be absolutely no limitations on anything anyone can wear, say, do, to each other in full view of every classmate, teacher, and parent. And believe me - there are plenty of "funny" things to choose from: Sexism, Racism, Antisemitism, and so on.

The fact is, every school has a dress code. Every school has a code of conduct. Every school places a minimum required level of civility in front of every student. If you can't follow it, stay out. Schools time and time again have shown that they can (legally) permanently expel students for breaking this social contract.

And we all know that this is necessary. People like my opponent would show up with flags one day, offensive T-Shirts the next, combat boots and shaved heads the day after that, printed images of bombs strapped to their bodies the day after that, and by Friday the entire school would be reduced to a campus of fist fights, lawsuits, and PTA meetings.

The primary goal of school is education. Unfortunately for my opponent, making a mockery of 150 years of slavery, segregation, and racial unrest by calling it "heritage" isn't going to make that possible.

Vote what you know is right - VOTE CON. It's common sense, and common decency.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by PiedPiper 3 years ago
What school? Public high school, public university, private university....could you be more specific?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ozzyhead 3 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was not being racist, and I do not believe the flag is racist in nature. It simply was a sign of rebellion. The flag is being used as a sign of rebellion instead of a sign of racism. I personally believe that if someone is butthurt about something that occurred 130 years ago, then they are the ones that need a little chit chat, not the flag waivers. I personally do not like to see the sign, but freedom of expression. Freedom of speech is not, and should not be limited. People should have a right to say what they want. But, people also have the right to approach a person who is doing something they disagree with. Again, freedom of speech. People have a right to own a gun, and a right to remain silent when under arrest, but just because you HAVE THE RIGHT, it does not mean that there are consequences to you exercising your rights in a place in which people do not want you acting in such a manner. You can own a gun, but if you use it wrongly, then there are consequences.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: You should both probably learn how to debate from an emotionally neutral place. Pro get's conduct because of con repeatedly calling him racist, or insinuating it. Con had better arguments.