The Instigator
FutureMD
Pro (for)
Losing
11 Points
The Contender
tmar19652
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

The Confederate flag is a social injustice

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
tmar19652
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,959 times Debate No: 29131
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (5)

 

FutureMD

Pro

This is my first debate! I am open to anyone accepting the challenge and I look forward to starting my DDO career :)


First round: Acceptance

Second Round: Make inital stand

Third Round: Rebuttle

Fourth Round: Refute the rebuttle (prove why its wrong ect.) and make final stand on your position
tmar19652

Con

I will debate you on the grounds that the confederate flag itself (design and cloth, not what it represents) is not a social injustice.
Debate Round No. 1
FutureMD

Pro

I accept your terms although I don't see how you can debate the design. Either way I thank you for accepting and look forward to your argument.
Terms used:

Injustice: Lack of fairness or justice[1]
Confederacy:
  1. A league or alliance, esp. of confederate states

The Confederate flag is a social injustice because it is the emblem/design/pattern of the Confederacy, 13 states (or 11 depending on what sources you refer to) that seceded from the United States of America in 1861. The Confederate party still remains today, although not as prominent, and its philosophy's include amendments that repeal the 14th & 15th amendments (slave rights), racial segregation, and POW torture. Segregation and slavery are without a doubt injustices of there own because they break the 1st amendment (freedom of speech, religion, and being).

By waving the Confederate flag, one is displaying his/her faith in the Confederacy much as wearing a cross displays ones faith in Christianity. The flag, in any light, is a symbol of injustice and should be waved no more.

Those who wave the flag do it because they believe in the Confederacy (segregation, POW torture, slavery) or there just plain ignorant and feel the flag represents there rebellious traits or there southern pride. I have no problem if someone who truly believes in the Confederacy waves the flag, but any other purpose other than educational and historical reference is just wrong.


tmar19652

Con

The Flag itself is not a racist
The Flag itself did not kill anyone
The flag itself did not have any slaves
The Flag itself did not torture any POW's
The Flag itself does not want to repeal the 13th, 14th or 15th Amendments

The title says the flag is a social injustice, however the flag has never committed a social injustice.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Vote Con!!!!
Debate Round No. 2
FutureMD

Pro

Being that the flag is an inanimate object I wouldn't expect it to, I respect your answer and I see how I could have worded my debate differently, but saying the Confederate flag isn't an injustice is saying the Nazi flag isn't an injustice because it didn't kill the Jews. Does that make it ok? Is it any less painful for those whose suffered through the Holocaust?


The flag is more than some cloth that you depict it to be, its a physiological hate crime because it inflicts fear amongst African Americans (and many more) who come into contact with it. If someone has a legitimate fear from the flag, I don't see how that's not an injustice because it unfair (Injustice definition from round 1) to take someone's personal security away from them.


I make my point.
tmar19652

Con

Remember, You said that African Americans fear the flag, but they actually fear what the flag represents. Your first round argument says that the Flag itself is a social injustice, and I have proven that the flag itself is not a social injustice.

Also remember, the flag itself has not taken away anyone's social security, only what it represents has. So the flag itself is not a social injustice.

Remember we are not debating if what the flag represents is a social injustice, only if the cloth and design is a social injustice (You accepted those terms).
Debate Round No. 3
FutureMD

Pro

ONLY because I accepted to the terms do I agree with you. Looking back I should not have because I kind already knew where it was headed but oh well.

However.... If there was flag that just said southern pr, I grantee African Americans wouldn't fear it/ be opposed to it. But if it was the Confederate flag they would fear, so in actually they do fear the flag..

I don't know if that was an argument or not, more of an opinion.

Let the people decide who won! Thanks for being apart of my first debate, I look forward to possibly debating you again.
tmar19652

Con

My opponent has not proven that the Confederate flag causes fear among African Americans or any others, nor have they proven that this is a psychological hate crime. Also, the resolution of this debate states that the Flag itself is a hate crime however the Flag itself is not a racist, the Flag itself did not kill anyone, the flag itself did not have any slaves, the Flag itself did not torture any POW's, and the Flag itself does not want to repeal the 13th, 14th or 15th Amendments.
Also, remember, that my opponent accepted the terms about this debate being only about the flag, not what it represents.

Vote Con!!!
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bladerunner060 4 years ago
bladerunner060
Azul145:

Providing an obviously factually inaccurate RFD does not defend one against charges of vote bombing.

Con did not change any terms of this debate; I noted before it even started and tried to ask if Pro was seriously trying to say the flag itself was a social injustice. It was obviously poorly premised, and trying to blame Con for that is unfair. Con clearly made the better arguments, pointing out that the FLAG, in and of itself is no more a social injustice than a table leg is a fascist.

S&G was actually WORSE on Pro's side, verifiably so, although had you not put what's obviously a bomb, I would have called it a tie because it's really not MUCH worse.
You are technically correct that Pro had 1 more source than Pro, so I cannot rightfully call that a bomb, although I think it's kind of ridiculous to award sources to either side, and I think that's just part of your bombing, but that's just opinion, so I'll just set that as tie.

Pro: While you never really posted a better-phrased premise, I'd say next time you need to think through what you're saying a little better.

Were you perhaps trying to say that "FLYING the confederate flag is a social injustice"? Or "The Confederate flag is a SYMBOL of social injustice"?

Either way, hopefully you've learned something from the debate, and hopefully you stay and engage in more!
Posted by FutureMD 4 years ago
FutureMD
It was my first debate, I learned alot, thank you Con
Posted by CIIReligion 4 years ago
CIIReligion
CON won plain and simple. If any other vote bombs come in for PRO, I will report this debate!

Clearly some people are biased and will people even when they lost, especially when the vote bomb came from a person who has lost more than he has won!
Posted by tmar19652 4 years ago
tmar19652
Are you kidding me, I destroyed your only argument, and you had burden of proof.
Posted by FutureMD 4 years ago
FutureMD
Listen to that guy, I won that debate e didn't have an argument to pose!
Posted by CIIReligion 4 years ago
CIIReligion
WHOOPS, Sorry! Wrong comment on wrong debate! LOL

Azul145, how did CON destroy the debate and change the terms? Your vote was a bomb and you need to change it accordingly. Just saying it is not a vote bomb because you gave a lame and unjustified comment does not make it any less.
Posted by FutureMD 4 years ago
FutureMD
Yes I see my mistakes. Thank you for your feedback everyone!
Posted by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
> "it inflicts fear amongst African Americans (and many more) who come into contact with it.

This is a bare assertion. Your premise needs supporting evidence. I've met people who were upset and/or offended by that flag, but nobody who was afraid of it.

> If someone has a legitimate fear from the flag.."

Your own argument also requires thet fear to be legitimate. For example, if someone has erythrophobia (fear of the color red), that's arguably not a legitimate fear. Certainly, America has not banned the traditional stars and stripes based on people with that phobia.
Posted by FutureMD 4 years ago
FutureMD
Well he already accepted and I didn't know what to say to it so I jsut excepted it. That was Cons only argument and it really wasn't and argument at all. I'm kind of disappointed, I wanted to have a good debate, being its my first time
Posted by Kenneth_Stokes 4 years ago
Kenneth_Stokes
I'm surprised that pro actually accepted the debate on Con's terms... Perhaps Pro didn't read or fully understand the conditions. I don't know. Vote Con.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
FutureMDtmar19652Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: COUNTER Azul145 Conduct & S&G points per Bladerunner's comments. Original RFD covers arguments: Con presented convlncing arguments that the confederate flag itself is not a social injustice. Pro made the bare assertion that it generated fear in some people, and while that's plausible, Con called him on not presenting any evidence in support of his claim. Pro thus did not meet the burden of proof.
Vote Placed by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
FutureMDtmar19652Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: I think the poor wording of Pro's premise isn't sufficient reason for me to dock him argument points. Con tried to get a cheap win by semantics. I think Pro was convincing and had better conduct.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 4 years ago
bladerunner060
FutureMDtmar19652Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by Azul145 4 years ago
Azul145
FutureMDtmar19652Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con completely destroyed the debate. He changed the terms to ruin the entire debate. Conduct and arguments to pro for this. Also pro had better grammar and more sources then con. This is not a vote bomb as I have given a good RFD
Vote Placed by CIIReligion 4 years ago
CIIReligion
FutureMDtmar19652Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO needs to learn more about the Confederate Flag and the history behind it. Not all blacks fear it, in fact some cherish it as their families were born into the confederacy and treat without prejudice. CON provided better arguments that were unbiased and made more sense. PRO needs to learn that if you are going to debate, you need to be prepared and not make statements like, "ONLY because I accepted to the terms do I agree with you. Looking back I should not have because I kind already knew where it was headed but oh well."