The Instigator
Jegory
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Rayze
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

The Cybermen are the best villains in Doctor Who

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Rayze
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,864 times Debate No: 34627
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

Jegory

Pro

Definitions

CYBERMEN - The villains from Doctor Who, including the Mondasian and Pete's World Cybermen, in both the classic and revived series of Doctor Who

BEST - Scariest, most awesome, most popular but NOT most iconic

DOCTOR WHO - As specified before, both the classic series, running from 1963-'89, and the revived series, running from 2005-present

Rules

For Debaters

1. PRO will be arguing that the Cybermen are the best Doctor Who villains in accordance with the definitions above. CON will be arguing that another race are the best Doctor Who villains. Specify which race you wish to argue for in Round 1.

2. BoP is shared as both debaters are arguing for a different race.

3. The round format is as follows:

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Arguments, no rebuttals
Round 3: Rebuttals
Round 4: Final rebuttals and closing statements, NO new arguments

This cannot be changed throughout the debate.

4. Forfeits result in all 7 points going to the other debater.

5. No insulting or offensive remarks and no trolling.

If you wish to change any of these rules, inquire in the comments before PRO has submitted their arguments for Round 2.

If either debater breaks any of these rules, all 7 points should be awarded to the other.

For Voters

Conduct: This field should remain unvoted unless either debater breaks rule 5.

S&G: This should not be voted on unless either debater's argument is completely incomprehensible.

Better arguments: This should go to the debater who presented the best arguments.

Sources: This field should remain unvoted unless either debater forfeits a round, in which case all 7 points should be awarded to the other.


I look forward to a very interesting debate!! Please inquire in the comments if you wish to accept.
Rayze

Con

Cool, I accept this debate.

While the Cybermen are great villains, the Daleks are the better villains hands down. True their iconic, but the Dalek Empire is the only Empire to bring the Time lords to their knees.
Debate Round No. 1
Jegory

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent, Rayze, for accepting this debate.

I'd also like to add; this debate will not be solely focused on how powerful or evil they are, but those factors can be used as part of an argument.

*PLEASE NOTE* I have been unable to insert pictures into my argument, so all pictures wish to use in my argument will be presented as hyperlinks.

I'd like to wish my opponent the best of luck. I will now present my arguments.

My argument will be split into four sections; Cybermen are scarier, Cybermen look better, Cybermen are more powerful and the Daleks are overused.

1. Cybermen are Scarier

a) Design

The Cybermen are, without a doubt, the scariest Doctor Who villain. The Daleks are nothing but a pepper pot armed with an egg whisk and a sucker arm. How does this:

http://www.debate.org...

look against this:

http://www.debate.org...

b) Legs

In addition, Cybermen have legs. This may seem obvious, but what's the one thing a Dalek lacks? Legs. They are stuck on the ground floor. You can easily run upstairs to escape a Dalek, as seen here:

http://www.debate.org...

However, with a Cyberman, there's nowhere to run.

c) Voice

Both the Daleks and the Cybermen are very similar here; both have eerily mechanical voices. However, it is clear the Cyberman have the cooler voice here as it is much lower and sounds more evil. In addition, while the voice of a Dalek changes between each Dalek, the Cyberman voice is the same for all.

d) Battle Cry

While the Dalek cry of "Exterminate" is bone-chilling, the Cyberman "Delete" is far superior to it. Not only is it more ominous and scary, but once you know what's coming next, it's fear-factor doubles.

e) You will be upgraded!

This is, by far, the scariest element of the Cybermen. They don't just kill you in a quick, painless way; they turn you into one of them. You become a Cyberman, making your life a living nightmare.

2. Cybermen look better

a) Look

Appearance:Impassive faced. Steel giants. Awesome. [1]

This is how the Doctor Who Website describes the Cybermen. This simple sentence describes the Cybermen in a nutshell. The Cybermen look better than any other Doctor Who villains with their blank, metal faces and their tall stature.

b) Changing Look

The Cybermen have changed a huge amount over the years. They have gone from this:

http://www.debate.org...

to this

http://www.debate.org...

to this

http://www.debate.org... (my personal favourite)

to this

http://www.debate.org...

to this

http://www.debate.org...

to this

http://www.debate.org...

!!

Have the Daleks changed?

http://www.debate.org...

Hardly at all. They remain just as simple and boring as ever, while the Cybermen have constantly rebuilt, redesigned and "upgraded" themselves again and again.

c) Dilapidated Look

The Cybermen don't always look clean, shiny and silver. Sometimes they encounter the Doctor in various states of metal decay, for example on Earth, the present day, in a shop [4]

http://www.debate.org...

or with an arm and a head missing, as the guard at Stonehenge in 102 ad [5]

http://www.debate.org...

or as an empty shell, as found on Hedgewick's World [2]

http://www.debate.org...

This only increases the fear factor and makes them even more evil and twisted than when they are clean and new.

3. Cybermen are more powerful

a) Weaponry

The Cybermen are equipped with a vast array of weaponry, ranging from Cyber-guns to wrist-mounted guns to killing with touch alone. With these they are more than ready to take over the cosmos. What are the Daleks equipped with? Whisks and a sink plunger.

b) Individual Strength

Cybermen each have the strength of ten men. They can throw people from one end of a room to the other without breaking a sweat. What can a Dalek do? Bump into you cackling "Move! Move!" There's no comparison.

c) Strength in numbers

The Cybermen have a huge army that make them an almost unstoppable force. In the words of Porridge, aka Emperor Ludens Nimrod Kendrick Cord Longstaff XLI,

"It's hard to fight an enemy that uses your army as spare parts."[2]

With an ever-growing army always upgrading new members, the Cybermen were very nearly unbeatable. The threat the Cybermen posed was so great an entire galaxy had to be destroyed in order to stop them [2].

In addition, at the Battle of Canary Wharf, an army of 5 million Cybermen faced off against a mere four Daleks, the only four left in existence [3].

4. The Daleks are Overused

Barely a series goes by when the Doctor hasn't got to save the universe from the Daleks. While they still thrill us, I feel they have been a bit played out. The Doctor's stopped them so many times and they've almost lost their fear-factor. However, the Cybermen are still fresh and exciting and each highly anticipated adventure against the Cybermen thrills me.

Conclusion

It is obvious that the Cybermen are the best villains in Doctor Who. I now hand you into the capable hands of CON while earnestly urging you to vote PRO.

[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk...
[2] Series 7, Nightmare in Silver
[3] Series 2, Doomsday
[4] Series 6, Closing Time
[5] Series 5, The Pandorica Opens
Rayze

Con

I'd like to thank my opponent, Jegory, for his interesting contentions supporting what the Daleks call an inferior species known as the Cybermen.

While my opponent argues that Cybermen are scarier, look better, are more powerful and the Daleks are overused. I will argue that the Daleks are superior in technology, are more evil, more powerful than Cybermen, and can arouse intense emotions of hate and disgust from the Doctor. Something the Cybermen can not do.


1. Superior in Technology
It is true that the Daleks look like over sized pepper pot with a plunger and whisk, but according to the cult of Skaro member Dalek Thay, "Daleks have no concept of elegance".
The Dalek race is capable of hiding in the void between dimensions, conquer entire galaxies, and Exterminate all life forms not of Dalek origin. They are similar to the cybermen in that they are cyborgs, but that is only where they are similar. The Daleks can levitate while the Cybermen can not. The Dalek creator Davros can create other Daleks from other species, while the Cybermen can upgrade their victims. However, the Cybermen can not guarantee that an "upgraded" cyberman is loyal (Doomsday season 2 Doctor who 2006), whereas the impure Daleks have shown fanatical loyalty similar to extreme religious fervor (The Parting of Ways season 1 Doctor who 2005). The Daleks have near impenetrable shields as witnessed in the videos, and most of all they brought the time lords to their knees when they destroyed the Time Lord Homeworld. Even the 9th Doctor admits that the Time Lords lost the Time War

2. Are more evil
"Real life analogies quickly fail when applied to the Daleks. At times they're compared to the likes of Nazis, but in truth they're literally lacking in humanity. Even "conquest" as we generally understand the term doesn't really interest them - sometimes they put foes to work as slaves (as in Death to the Daleks), but this is almost inevitably in the interest of facilitating new atrocities and exterminations. The point is that one can (and should) hope to use reason against real-world governments, but there is virtually no chance of diplomacy succeeding against the Daleks. ... Basically, the Daleks collectively remain united behind one goal: kill everything that isn't a Dalek."-Lance Parkin http://tardis.wikia.com...


3. More powerful than the Cybermen


Also according to the Doctor who site, the Cybermen's Weaknesses are that they are susceptible to electromagnetic bombs and Dalek fire power http://www.bbc.co.uk...


4. Arouse emotions of hate and disgust from the Doctor
Behold the vehement response from the 9th Doctor as he meets the "last" Dalek




Debate Round No. 2
Jegory

Pro

I'd like to thank Rayze for his arguments. I'd also like to add that this debate isn't focusing solely on an in-universe perspective of who are the better villains, but as a whole.

Henceforth, I commence with my rebuttals.

[Daleks] can arouse intense emotions of hate and disgust from the Doctor

While the Cybermen may not be able to do this, pears can [6]. See the video from about 0:25 for an explanation.

http://m.youtube.com...

Are you serioulsy putting the entire Dalek race at the same level as pears???

The Dalek creator Davros can create other Daleks from other species

Here, I gather you are implying the Daleks cannot. However, I argue that the Cybermen can.

What about the Cybershades; part animal, part robot, upgraded from dogs and cats and far more savage than average Cybermen, in Victorian London? [7]

An image of the Cybershades can be found here:

http://www.debate.org...

Also, by the time the Doctor visited Hedgewick's World, the Cyberleader explained that the Cybermen could use almost any organic matter in the upgrading process, including Time Lords like the Doctor. [8]

The Dalek race is capable of hiding in the void between dimensions

While I do concede that the Daleks could cross the Void, the Cybermen were able to follow and get across to our dimension. [9]

[Daleks] exterminate all life forms not of Dalek origin

Yes, they do. However, the Cybermen are far more dangerous; they NEED to upgrade humans, making them unstoppable and as "passionate" about their purpose as any Dalek.

the Cybermen can not guarantee that an "upgraded" cyberman is loyal

Neither can the Daleks. Need I remind you of Dalek Caan [10] or Clara [11] who both tried to save the Doctor and/or the universe?

In any case, the vast majority of upgraded Cybermen are completely loyal. Even though some retain a hint of their personality, they still are completely emotionless, as seen with Jackie Tyler on Pete's World [12].

they brought the time lords to their knees when they destroyed the Time Lord Homeworld

The Cybermen were also dangerous. The Tyberian Spiral Galaxy had to be completely destroyed after the Cyber Wars to stop the mass of Cybermen from upgrading the rest of the universe [8]. That's quite a bit more than one measly planet!!

At times they're compared to the likes of Nazis, but in truth they're literally lacking in humanity

I would say that is the same for the Cybermen. They have no emotions and you cannot reason with them; their only purpose is to upgrade you.

the Cybermen's Weaknesses are that they are susceptible to electromagnetic bombs and Dalek fire power

Yes, the Daleks are more powerful than the Cybermen in one-on-one combat but, again, the Cybermen use their sheer strength in numbers to overpower any foe they come across.

Also, could the Daleks stand up to this:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

?

This overwhelming beast, known as the Cyberking, was capable of decimating Victorian London [7]. Do the Daleks have anything that could possibly compare to this?

Here ends my rebuttals. I eagerly look forward to my opponent's reply while sincerely urging you to vote PRO.

[6]Series 3, Human Nature Deleted Scene
[7]2008 Christmas Special, The Next Doctor
[8]Series 7, Nightmare in Silver
[9]Series 2, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday
[10]Series 4, Journey's End
[11]Series 7, Asylum of the Daleks
[12]Series 2, The Age of Steel
Rayze

Con

Before I start my rebuttals let me clarify the comment, "The Dalek creator Davros can create other Daleks from other species, while the Cybermen can upgrade their victims." Meaning that they create Cybermen from other organisms. The comment was meant to lead to the contention that Cybermen cannot guarantee the loyalty of an upgraded victim.


Rebuttals

Are you seriously putting the entire Dalek race at the same level as pears???

I don't think a simple food aversion is the same thing as vehemently hating the race that nearly exterminated his (the Doctor's) people in the Time War.

However, the Cybermen are far more dangerous; they NEED to upgrade humans, making them unstoppable and as "passionate" about their purpose as any Dalek.

Seeing how Dalek firepower is listed as a weakness for Cybermen they are hardly unstoppable.


The Cybermen were also dangerous. The Tyberian Spiral Galaxy had to be completely destroyed after the Cyber Wars to stop the mass of Cybermen from upgrading the rest of the universe. That's quite a bit more than one measly planet!!

One galaxy? Try sacrificing one's entire race, sealing the conflict in a time lock to prevent the results from changing, as well as countless of lives and planets lost, resurrected, and exterminated again. Just to prevent the Daleks from exterminating all life forms in the Universe.

The consequence of the Time war isn't just the loss of the Time Lord home planet Gallifrey, it made History painfully susceptible to change causing paradoxes which summoned Reapers that consume life forms to “sterilize” the wound in time (Father's day), closed the paths to parallel worlds (Rise of the Cybermen), instigated the events seen in the Unquiet dead [changing the Gelth race into a gaseous race], and Rose [Destroying the Nestene Consciousness' home world and protein source planets forcing the Nestene consciousness to find alternative planets for food and survival].

The Daleks are more powerful than the Cybermen in one-on-one combat but, again, the Cybermen use their sheer strength in numbers to overpower any foe they come across.

You've seen the Daleks vs Cybermen round 2 video. The Daleks just exterminated the Cybermen along with the humans from Torchwood. Even though there were just four Daleks at Torchwood tower, the Cyber-Leader issued a call for all Cybermen to head to Torchwood tower. Why? Because the Daleks were exterminating the Cybermen and the Cybermen couldn’t even pierce the Dalek shields. End result is like shooting fish in a barrel for a Dalek.


Neither can the Daleks. Need I remind you of Dalek Caan or Clara who both tried to save the Doctor and/or the universe?

One broken Dalek and an Anomaly of Time are not pure Daleks. Dalek Caan would have been exterminated or sent to the Asylum if it weren’t for the fact that he saved Davros. Also Dalek Caan had lost his sanity to save Davros from the Time War, which would result in the obvious loss of loyalty to the he was designed to think like the enemy and find new innovative ways to kill the inferior species as a member of the Cult of Skaro. There are obvious risks of corruption as Dalek Caan dabbled in emotions to outwit the enemies of the Dalek Empire. (Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, Stolen Earth). Clara cannot be considered a Dalek despite Oswin Oswald's outward appearance because she is a human fragmented from her true self when she jumped into the Doctor’s time line (Asylum of Daleks, The Name of the Doctor).

Even if they were Daleks, the Dalek race was never ruled by someone of an inferior species like the Cybermen. Remember Mercy Hartigan, the human who seized control of the Cybermen after being betrayed by the Cyber-leader. Quite an embarrassment to be subjugated by a mere human, especially when they are being touted as the best villains of Doctor Who. When the Dalek race was faced with becoming more human than Dalek, the Remaining Cult of Skaro simply exterminated Dalek Sec and the Dalek-human hybrids after realizing that the hybrids were corrupted. While two of Cult of Skaro perished as a result of the extermination of corrupted Dalek hybrids, the Daleks would rather die than become or be something not Dalek. This attitude is seen in the episode Dalek where the “last” Dalek commits suicide after realizing it is changing into something other than a Dalek.



Also Cyberking, meet Eret-mensaiki Ska, (Destiny of Stars) or also known as the Imperial Dalek mother ship.
According to the 7th Doctor Eret-mensaiki Ska can destroy an Earth-like planet as easily as one would crack open an egg. Can your CyberKing do that? Nope, it can only flatten Victorian London and upgrade people. The Eret-mensaiki is a planet killer, a true weapon worthy of the Dalek kind, but the Eret-mensaiki met its untimely demise by the Hand of Omega (A stellar manipulator) in Remembrance of the Daleks. However, it is comforting to know that the Cyberking met its demise through an extremely sad method of using an improvised device made of Cyber-stamps and “Jackson’s” Tardis that severed the Human Hartigan’s connection to the Cyberking, which caused it to self-destruct (The New Doctor). It took a Time-lord Superweapon to Destroy a Dalek Superweapon while it took an improvised "device" to exterminate a Cyberman Superweapon


Debate Round No. 3
Jegory

Pro

I thank Rayze for his swift response.

Just to clarify; "no new arguments" for this round means no new evidence can be used as part of your arguments from the first two rounds. Despite this, you may continue to add facts and reference sources, as long as they directly respond to the other debater's points. I apologise for any potential confusion.

I will now continue with my rebuttals.

Before I start my rebuttals let me clarify the comment, "The Dalek creator Davros can create other Daleks from other species, while the Cybermen can upgrade their victims." Meaning that they create Cybermen from other organisms. The comment was meant to lead to the contention that Cybermen cannot guarantee the loyalty of an upgraded victim.

I apologise for misinterpreting your statement. In any case, my points still stand.

Seeing how Dalek firepower is listed as a weakness for Cybermen they are hardly unstoppable

I meant, as in the sense you cannot reason with them, they are, theoretically, unstoppable. A Cyberman with an arm and its head missing still needed to upgrade victims, and very nearly succeeded in upgrading Amy Pond [13].

To support this point, I will quote Captain Jack Harkness:

"You can't reason with a Cyberman; you can't run from a Cyberman. If they get you, you're dead, or worse..." [14]

Here, the emphasis is on the fact that you can't reason with a Cyberman. They are programmed to follow a specific plan and they will stick to it, no matter what.

One galaxy? Try sacrificing one's entire race, sealing the conflict in a time lock to prevent the results from changing, as well as countless of lives and planets lost, resurrected, and exterminated again

While I agree the death toll of the Last Great Time War was catastrophic, I would argue that the Cyber Wars also had a pretty high death count. However, I think that there were probably more than just one species lost in the Cyber Wars.

The consequence of the Time war isn't just the loss of the Time Lord home planet Gallifrey, it made History painfully susceptible to change causing paradoxes...

Yes, again, the impacts of the Time War was devastating, affecting thousands, if not millions, of species and planets. However, the Cyber War also had drastic impacts across the universe, with planets like Hedgewick's World remaining "trashed" a thousand years after the war had ended [15].

The Daleks just exterminated the Cybermen along with the humans from Torchwood...

Firstly:

"During the battle, although the Cybermen's lasers had no effect on the Daleks, the Cybermen destroyed some with their electrical attack from their hands, ripping off the Dalekanium domes." [16]

This shows, while the Cybermen's lasers were inefficient at stopping the Daleks, they were capable of destroying them. If the Genesis Ark had not been opened, the Cybermen, as well as the humans of Torchwood, may have had a chance against the Daleks.

Also:

The Daleks, driven, for the most part, by their sense of purity, would be reluctant to turn other, "unclean", species into Daleks. Again, if the Genesis Ark had not been opened, the Daleks would have stayed at the small number of four. On the other hand, the Cybermen were already upgrading the Torchwood personnel, increasing their numbers drastically [17].

One broken Dalek and an Anomaly of Time are not pure Daleks

In the same way, one disloyal Cyberman would not make much difference in the grand scheme of the Cybermen's plans. The vast majority are loyal.

Quite an embarrassment to be subjugated by a mere human [Mercy Hartigan], especially when they are being touted as the best villains of Doctor Who

Miss Hartigan had been upgraded to become the Cyberking; she merely retained some of her emotions. This, I believe, actually stregthened the Cybermen as they could have had the chance to understand the humans and use their emotions against them.

the Daleks would rather die than become or be something not Dalek

While this is one of the Daleks' most notably aspects, it is also one of their greatest weaknesses. The half-human Daleks of the Dalek Emperor's fleet were "driven mad by their own flesh", leaving them unstable and worshipping the Emperor in a manner reminiscent of a lunatic [18].

The Daleks of the Cult of Skaro exterminated Dalek Sec as he became a Dalek-human hybrid, eradicating their one chance of survival [19].

The Daleks are so driven by their sense of purity, it works against them. In comparison, the Cybermen are ready and willing to "upgrade" and renew themselves, not caring for purity. You wouldn't catch a Cyberman committing suicide because he wasn't "pure"!!!

the Cyberking met its demise through an extremely sad method of using an improvised device made of Cyber-stamps and "Jackson"s" Tardis

Well yes, I do admit the Cyberking was defeated rather easily. However, this is the Doctor we're talking about. He destroyed the entire Dalek race, leaving a mere four in existence, but has he destroyed the Cybermen yet? I don't think so; a mass of 3 million Cybermen was present on Hedgewick's World years after the Cyber Wars [15]. The Cybermen are a long way from being defeated completely.

Conclusion

Therefore, the Cybermen are the best Doctor Who villains as they are the scariest, the best looking and, in many cases, the most powerful villains the Doctor has ever had to face.

I'd like to thank Rayze for abiding by the rules and being cicvil throughout. This has been a thoroughly enjoyable debate and I hope we can debate together again soon.

I now pass you, for the last time, into the capable hands of CON for his final rebuttals and closing statements.

[13]Series 5, The Pandorica Opens
[14]The Monster Files: The Cybermen http://m.youtube.com...
[15]Series 7, Nightmare in Silver
[16]http://tardis.wikia.com...
[17]Series 2, Doomsday
[18]Series 1, The Parting of the Ways
[19]Series 3, Evolution of the Daleks
Rayze

Con

Final Rebuttals

I will quote Captain Jack Harkness:


"You can't reason with a Cyberman; you can't run from a Cyberman. If they get you, you're dead, or worse..."

Captain Jack also said in the Dalek monsterfiles, "Oh, and one other piece of advice, expect to die. No one can stand up to the daleks except for that one man the one they call the oncoming storm the last of the timelords the Dalek's greatest enemy the Doctor"(https://www.youtube.com...)

This, I believe, actually stregthened the Cybermen as they could have had the chance to understand the humans and use their emotions against them.

The Daleks could do this without being subjugated to a human. We have seen this in several episodes like the Episode Dalek, The parting of ways, and Victory of the Daleks. In Dalek the "last" dalek has the Doctor open the sealed door after holding Rose Hostage. In the parting of ways, the Daleks force the Doctor to choose between annihilating all of humanity for the destruction of the Daleks, something the Doctor balked at the last minute. In victory of the Daleks the Daleks extract testimony from the Doctor allowing the Progenitor to create the new Pure Daleks.

Well yes, I do admit the Cyberking was defeated rather easily. However, this is the Doctor we're talking about. He destroyed the entire Dalek race, leaving a mere four in existence, but has he destroyed the Cybermen yet? I don't think so; a mass of 3 million Cybermen was present on Hedgewick's World years after the Cyber Wars [15]. The Cybermen are a long way from being defeated completely.
Yes, the Doctor used an indiscriminate superweapon to end the time war annihilating the Timelords and the Daleks. However, the Daleks still survived, in the Genesis Ark, in the void or falling through time, and through parodoxes (Davros). The Daleks are far more persistant than the Cybermen even breaking time locks just to preserve the purity and ensure the survival of their kind. In fact I must thank the Doctor for reviving the Dalek race in its purest form in Victory of the Daleks. Since if it wasn't for his vehement response the Davros daleks couldn't utilize the Progenitor.

"During the battle, although the Cybermen's lasers had no effect on the Daleks, the Cybermen destroyed some with their electrical attack from their hands, ripping off the Dalekanium domes."This shows, while the Cybermen's lasers were inefficient at stopping the Daleks, they were capable of destroying them. If the Genesis Ark had not been opened, the Cybermen, as well as the humans of Torchwood, may have had a chance against the Daleks.

Thanks for conceding that the Cybermen and humans lost any chance when the Daleks opened the Genesis ark. Also I do not recall seeing any Dalek being destroyed by the Cybermen in the episode Doomsday.


Conclusion
In the end, I think that this little verbal exchange between the Daleks and Cybermen best concludes this debate
;


I'd like to thank Jegory for defending the Cybermen and I have truly enjoyed this debate representing the Daleks.

(This is not a part of the debate but here is a video the fury of the timelords for the enjoyment of the viewers.)
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Jegory 4 years ago
Jegory
I'd like to congratulate Rayze on a very well deserved win. This has been an extremely enjoyable debate :D.
Posted by Jegory 4 years ago
Jegory
Thanks :D. I'll be uploading my rebuttals soon.
Posted by Rayze 4 years ago
Rayze
Jegory:
Hey,
I got you're comment, and its outrageous how the videos won't play on yours. Here's the links to the four videos uploaded.
http://www.youtube.com...
http://www.youtube.com...
http://www.youtube.com...
http://www.youtube.com...
Posted by Jegory 4 years ago
Jegory
Rayze:
Hi,
I'll post my Round 3 asap, but in the mean time, the videos you put in your argument are from BBC America and, as I'm English, I can't view them (It's outrageous!! It's a British show, after all :P), so can you send me a link to the vids on youtube in the comments so I can directly refer to them in my argument?
Thanks :D
Posted by Jegory 4 years ago
Jegory
If you want to argue for the Time Lords sometime, I'd be happy to reinstate this debate once it's finished :D.
Posted by Ragnar 4 years ago
Ragnar
I just came up with a decent argument for the Time Lords... However this debate is Cybermen vs Daleks.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by GOP 4 years ago
GOP
JegoryRayzeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded a lot. He also didn't explain how one of his points was "still standing" after concession.