The Instigator
BlueJeanBilly
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ColeTrain
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The Dallas Cowboys are the greatest American football franchise since 1960.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ColeTrain
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/25/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 471 times Debate No: 74190
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

BlueJeanBilly

Pro

By greatest I mean remarkable or outstanding in magnitude, degree, or extent: superior in quality.

1st Round will be acceptance of debate.

2nd Round will be Arguments and supporting evidence.

3rd Round will be Rebutals.

Thanks in advance for accepting and good luck.
ColeTrain

Con

I accept. :)
Debate Round No. 1
BlueJeanBilly

Pro

I will be using Wikipedia as a reliable source.

I will begin my case with four premises.

i. The Cowboys are more valuable than any other franchise.
ii. The Cowboys have the highest overall winning percentage.
iii. The Cowboys retain the most fans.
iv. Therefore The Cowboys are the GREATEST franchise since 1960.

I will start with premise one. Easy enough, here is the link that provides a reliable resource to state the fact of premise one. http://www.forbes.com... . As you can see, the Dallas Cowboys are by far the most valuable franchise in the NFL. The closest team to come close is the Pats. The difference is a whopping $6 BILLION. They are the 5th most valuable sports franchise in the world. http://www.forbes.com... With the supporting evidence I have set forth premise one is not falsifiable.

In premise two I stated that the Cowboys have obtained the highest overall winning percentage since the 1960's. Here is my source of information. http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://michigan-football.com... As you can see with a percentage of .574 the Cowboys lead in the overall rating. Now I know the resources being used go back before 1960, but since the Cowboys franchise wasn't started until 1960 it benefits me none. If you were to get the average of overall wins the Cowboys division have vs the 2nd best franchise's, no matter which division you choose, the strength of the Cowboys would be stronger. What does this have to do with you ask? The Cowboys also have the most division titles with 22 (2015 season not in resource below) and most playoff berths with 31. Nine of those 31 are consecutive, which is the most. They have won 34 total postseason games which is also the most. http://www.nfl.com...
(MISSING 2015 SEASON)
http://en.wikipedia.org... They have the most consecutive winning seasons with 20 from 1966 to 1985. Tied with 8 Superbowl appearances, the Cowboys are with a record of 5 wins 3 losses. That's just 1 behind the current record holder to most Superbowl wins. http://en.wikipedia.org...(team)
All this done in what you could call the toughest Division in the NFL. (But that's for another debate) They are one of only a few teams to have back to back Superbowl wins. Now that I have shown you that the Cowboys are the most winning-est team lets move on.

Now to premise three. Short "proof" could be stated with one statement: "America's Team" Funny, huh? Let us get to the real evidence. The easiest way I felt to do this was to take the two most commonly used social medias and see which franchises were liked the most. I think we could all agree that anyone who is well, anyone, at least has a Facebook account.. http://fanpagelist.com... As you can see the Cowboys beat out the highest total likes by 1,840,209. I mean as I sit here writing this (while watching the Ottawa vs Montreal NHL game) I overhear P.K. Subban talking about the greatest sports team in the world, the Cowboys. Now there may be more polls out there that may state otherwise, I will leave that up to the Con to prove this fallacy.

Greatness, at least in my opinion, comes from primarily three things: value, success in your goal "winning", and being acknowledged and accepted for achieving that goal. Not only have the Cowboys achieved these three things but history has shown they achieve it time and time again. You could also look at the Hall of Fame inductees the Cowboys have. They are tied at 16 inductees with Oakland for the top number since 1960. http://www.profootballhof.com... They have historically great players, coaches, and dynasties. When you speak to anyone about the NFL whether they know much about it or not, chances are they will know who the Cowboys are. With all of my evidence the Burden of Proof is on my opponent to prove that there is a greater franchise. If all of my premises are true than how could there be any greater franchise than the Dallas Cowboys?

Thanks!
ColeTrain

Con

Resolution: The Dallas Cowboys are the greatest American football franchise since 1960.

Position: Con
(I negate the resolution, and disagree with the notion that the Dallas Cowboys are the greatest team.)

Preface:

As my opponent has instigated the debate, I will assume the burden of proof lies primarily on my opponent, who must fulfill and back up his/her claim stated in the resolution. Therefore, my job will be to refute and negate my opponents arguments, and essentially provide a counter plan (or simply refute my opponent’s premises) to back up and prove my side. This counter plan will show that the resolution is flawed because there exists another franchise that is subjectively superior to the Dallas Cowboys both prior to and after the 1960s.

Introduction:

In its infancy, the National Football League was great. Now, infinitely times more popular, the NFL is equally great. This greatness has not come about by lackluster performance and inept teamwork. Conversely, stalwart motivation and professional expertise has contributed in large part towards the success of football in America.

The purpose of this debate is to identify which team has had the greatest magnitudinal effect and objectively label them as the greatest team since the 1960s. My opponent has chosen the Dallas Cowboys to represent his side, and I have chosen the dynastical Pittsburgh Steelers to embody my position as the greatest overall team since the 1960s.

C1) Hall of Fame.

One of the greatest individual achievements in virtually any professional sport, an induction to the Hall of Fame has become relatively repetitive and commonplace for the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise, beginning even before the 1960s. In terms of statistics, the storied franchise is ranked 3rd in regards to Hall of Famers. [1] In total, the Steelers organization has produced 21 Hall of Fame worthy players. [2]

These include:

1963 - Bert Bell

1989 - Mel Blount

1989 - Terry Bradshaw

2012 - Jack Butler

2012 - Dermontti Dawson

1966 - Bill Dudley

1987 - Joe Greene

1988 - Jack Ham

1990 - Franco Harris

1987 - John Henry Johnson

1966 - Walt Kiesling

1990 - Jack Lambert

1967 - Bobby Layne

1993 - Chuck Noll

1964 - Art Rooney

2000 - Dan Rooney

2002 - John Stallworth

1969 - Ernie Stautner

2001 - Lynn Swann

1997 - Mike Webster

2009 - Rod Woodson

Note that each of these players were inducted after 1960, refuting my opponent’s claim. Besides these players, categorized by their induction in their respective years, the organization has players with recognized potential to join the 21 in years following.

These include, but are not limited to, the following:

Ben Roethlisberger

Hines Ward

Troy Polamalu

Casey Hampton

On the other hand, in regards to this statistic, the Dallas Cowboys don’t even make the Top Ten cut. Historically, regarded as “America’s team only have 11 players that have successfully been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Furthermore, the future doesn’t look near as promising in regards to future inductees.

C2) Super Bowl.

The height of excitement and skill of the NFL season, the Super Bowl, is heralded as the most important factor in determining success and greatness. In regards to this statistic, we find undisputed superiority of the Pittsburgh Steelers. In fact, in comparison to any NFL team, the Steelers have had the most success in regards to the Steelers.

In regards to Super Bowl game attendance, the Steelers rank first, along with two other teams: the New England Patriots, and the Dallas Cowboys. However, determining the importance of this statistic is essential to understanding which team under dispute is better: the Cowboys or the Steelers

The Cowboys and Steelers have met three times in the Super Bowl: X, XIII, and XXX. In these meet-ups, the Steelers have won two out of the three (X [3] and XIII [4]). It is also important to note that each of these meetings were obviously past 1960, thus credible per the terms of the debate. Hence, it is established that competitive success in the Super Bowl between the two teams belongs to the Steelers. [5]

Furthermore, in regards to overall Super Bowl success (and not simply specific to the two teams under dispute), the Steelers are once again superior. In their 2009 Super Bowl win, the team has surpassed all other NFL teams in terms of total Super Bowl wins: six. [6] This statistic is essential in determining who has had the greatest overall success in post-1960s.

The argument for consecutive Super Bowl wins is once again awarded to the Steelers. Although both teams have won two consecutive Super Bowls, the Steelers are the only team to have done it on two separate occasions (IX-X and XIII-XIV). [7] Also note that both of these streaks began with a Super Bowl win over the Cowboys.

Furthermore, we see, that on the occasions that they have attended (five), the Cowboys have lost three times, giving them a worse percentage than the Steelers. Specifically, the Cowboys have a .625 percentage while the Steelers have a superior .750. [8] This gives the Steelers a solid and significant edge in regards to Super Bowls.

Conclusion:

Though both the Dallas Cowboys and the Pittsburgh Steelers could both be reasonably attached to the progress and ultimate success of the National Football League, I believe that there is considerable and sufficient evidence that supports the notion that the Cowboys are NOT the greatest team, and rather that the Pittsburgh Steelers fulfill that position.

Rebuttals:

Premise I) Value

The value of a team, while important, cannot directly correlate to “greatness.” Instead, value should be placed on the worth of the talent and skill possessed by the team, rather than simply money. Greatness, in the world of sports, is not based solely on money. In fact, in sports, it is more important that a team has success in sports rather than in the market. Ask the fans, as my opponent brings up. Would they rather their team be worth a million dollars that they will never have, or would they rather their team win the Super Bowl and Tony Romo win the MVP? This premise falls meritless as sports greatness is determined by something other than money worth.

Premise II) Winning Percentage

I concede (with no option, as it is fact) that the Cowboys have a higher winning percentage than any other team. However, I argue instead that winning percentage is not as important as ultimate success. As I have outlined in my case, the Super Bowl is ultimate success, and that statistic does not belong to the Cowboys.

Premise III) Popularity

Though my opponent wants to convince you that popularity belongs to the Cowboys, this is untrue. My opponent has challenged me to refute this, and I have. In a poll taken by Sports Illustrated, the Broncos topped the Cowboys as America’s favorite team. [9] This refutes my opponent’s point and backs up the claim that the Cowboys are not the best team. As I have not been required to specify another team, simple refutation is adequate to prove the resolution false. However, in my case I have outlined reasons as to why another team is better as well.

Premise IV) Result

As I have successfully refuted each of my opponent’s points, and shown reasons to prove the resolution false, I have succeeded in falsifying the resolution. Therefore, the Cowboys are not the greatest franchise since the 1960s.

Sources:


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[2] http://www.profootballhof.com...

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[5] http://steelcurtainrising.com...

[6] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

[7] http://www.nfl.com...

[8] http://sportslistoftheday.com...

[9] http://www.si.com...

Debate Round No. 2
BlueJeanBilly

Pro

I will be using Wikipedia as a reliable source.

I will begin my case with four premises.

i. The Cowboys are more valuable than any other franchise.
ii. The Cowboys have the highest overall winning percentage.
iii. The Cowboys retain the most fans.
iv. Therefore The Cowboys are the GREATEST franchise since 1960.

I will start with premise one. Easy enough, here is the link that provides a reliable resource to state the fact of premise one. http://www.forbes.com... . As you can see, the Dallas Cowboys are by far the most valuable franchise in the NFL. The closest team to come close is the Pats. The difference is a whopping $6 BILLION. They are the 5th most valuable sports franchise in the world. http://www.forbes.com... With the supporting evidence I have set forth premise one is not falsifiable.

In premise two I stated that the Cowboys have obtained the highest overall winning percentage since the 1960's. Here is my source of information. http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://michigan-football.com... As you can see with a percentage of .574 the Cowboys lead in the overall rating. Now I know the resources being used go back before 1960, but since the Cowboys franchise wasn't started until 1960 it benefits me none. If you were to get the average of overall wins the Cowboys division have vs the 2nd best franchise's, no matter which division you choose, the strength of the Cowboys would be stronger. What does this have to do with you ask? The Cowboys also have the most division titles with 22 (2015 season not in resource below) and most playoff berths with 31. Nine of those 31 are consecutive, which is the most. They have won 34 total postseason games which is also the most. http://www.nfl.com...
(MISSING 2015 SEASON)
http://en.wikipedia.org... They have the most consecutive winning seasons with 20 from 1966 to 1985. Tied with 8 Superbowl appearances, the Cowboys are with a record of 5 wins 3 losses. That's just 1 behind the current record holder to most Superbowl wins. http://en.wikipedia.org...(team)
All this done in what you could call the toughest Division in the NFL. (But that's for another debate) They are one of only a few teams to have back to back Superbowl wins. Now that I have shown you that the Cowboys are the most winning-est team lets move on.

Now to premise three. Short "proof" could be stated with one statement: "America's Team" Funny, huh? Let us get to the real evidence. The easiest way I felt to do this was to take the two most commonly used social medias and see which franchises were liked the most. I think we could all agree that anyone who is well, anyone, at least has a Facebook account.. http://fanpagelist.com... As you can see the Cowboys beat out the highest total likes by 1,840,209. I mean as I sit here writing this (while watching the Ottawa vs Montreal NHL game) I overhear P.K. Subban talking about the greatest sports team in the world, the Cowboys. Now there may be more polls out there that may state otherwise, I will leave that up to the Con to prove this fallacy.

Greatness, at least in my opinion, comes from primarily three things: value, success in your goal "winning", and being acknowledged and accepted for achieving that goal. Not only have the Cowboys achieved these three things but history has shown they achieve it time and time again. You could also look at the Hall of Fame inductees the Cowboys have. They are tied at 16 inductees with Oakland for the top number since 1960. http://www.profootballhof.com... They have historically great players, coaches, and dynasties. When you speak to anyone about the NFL whether they know much about it or not, chances are they will know who the Cowboys are. With all of my evidence the Burden of Proof is on my opponent to prove that there is a greater franchise. If all of my premises are true than how could there be any greater franchise than the Dallas Cowboys?

Thanks!
ColeTrain

Con

As described in the comments, my opponent has accidentally posted their main arguments twice. To allow this debate to go on, and not completely go to waste, I propose a restructure to the debate. We will simply both defer this round, and allow arguments to resume the next round.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by BlueJeanBilly 2 years ago
BlueJeanBilly
http://www.debate.org... Here is the link to the new debate. I'd like to thank my opponent for having mercy on my mistake.
Posted by ColeTrain 2 years ago
ColeTrain
ok
Posted by BlueJeanBilly 2 years ago
BlueJeanBilly
Ok thanks. Ill have to do it this evening.
Posted by ColeTrain 2 years ago
ColeTrain
Thanks for the compliment, btw. ;) I had my case pre-written, just did rebuttals and revised my case based on your case lol.
Posted by ColeTrain 2 years ago
ColeTrain
I have an idea. Create the exact same debate, post your intro, I'll accept, post your first argument, then I'll post my attack, then you can have a chance to rebut. :)
Posted by BlueJeanBilly 2 years ago
BlueJeanBilly
Well, I guess I concede round 3. Somehow my case posted twice. This shouldn't penalize my opponent as it was my fault. Although I would love to have a second chance at this. It would be nice to be able to rebut your argument. Maybe in near future? How could I expect my first attempt in debateing on here would go without a hiccup. Thanks Cole. By the way. Super fast post. I was expecting at least a few hours.
Posted by ColeTrain 2 years ago
ColeTrain
No problem. :)
Posted by BlueJeanBilly 2 years ago
BlueJeanBilly
Thanks. I would have change the format. I just checked back in. Sorry but still thanks for accepting.
Posted by ColeTrain 2 years ago
ColeTrain
72 hr between rounds and I'll accept.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
BlueJeanBillyColeTrainTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I have to give sources to Con as he posted more sources than his opponent and they were about the same in terms of reliability except Pro had more wikipeadia sources. Arguments go to Con as he showed that the Super Bowl factor and HOF factor both go to the Steelers not to mention that Con properly refute all of Pro's points. This debate goes to Con.