The Instigator
whitesoxfan450
Pro (for)
Losing
27 Points
The Contender
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
57 Points

The Dark Knight will pass up Titanic on the all-time grossing list

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/11/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,790 times Debate No: 4978
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (16)

 

whitesoxfan450

Pro

Dark Knight Primed to Topple Star Wars

'Dark Knight' stays on top with $26M

'Dark Knight' tops weekend again

Fourth No. 1 helps make film the third-biggest of all time

What do all these titles mean? The Dark Knight has made money, and lots of it. The movie has been number 1 in the box office for 4 weeks strait, and is showing almost no signs of slowing down. Even new movies, such as The Mummy, Sisterhood of The Traveling Pants, and Pineapple Express have failed to take the Number 1 spot. As of now, the Dark Knight is the 3rd best grossing movie of all time, with over 441 Million dollars made.

The record it needs to beat is 600 Million, which is only 200 Million dollars away, and the movie has been out for only 4 weeks. Its pretty predictible, that the Dark Knight can, and will be the best grossing movie of all time.

Another thing worth noting: It took Titanic a whole 4 weeks to earn just 400 million dollars, while it took the Dark Knight only 10 days. The Dark Knight makes lots of money, and it makes it fast.
Tatarize

Con

No. It'll make the top 10 (~900 million) but were you around for Titanic when it came out you'd know the difference between blockbuster and "why won't this movie die already". The trending was astounding.

Titanic made $1,835,300,000 world wide gross followed by a distant Lord of the Rings (TTT) at $1,129,219,252.

Titanic was months upon months in the theater at #1 time after time after time, without losing much viewership as time went on.

Dark Knight opened huge with $155.3 million and $72.2 million it's second weekend, and this last weekend it made $26.1M (Titanic made more than 30 million dollars 9 weeks in). I loved the film and highly recommend seeing it, but it doesn't have Titanic's staying power as Titanic made 10 million dollars even 15 weeks after the debut.

Dark Knight's $704,728,497 is going to go up for a while, especially after it starts showing completely globally. But it isn't going to go up 1.1 billion dollars.

http://www.imdb.com...

---

Great film but guys aren't going to go watch it week after week after week. I just watched it that once and can't wait for the sequel (showing has been big enough they are fast tracking it).

Here's a good article to read on the subject:
http://www.the-movie-times.com...

It tracks Titanic against the Phantom Menace (#7). Phantom Menace just like The Dark Knight starts off amazingly strong but dwindles. Titanic just keeps putting up profit week after profit week. Slow and steady wins the race.
Debate Round No. 1
whitesoxfan450

Pro

Ok, one detail that will effect EVERYTHING: I'm talking about DOMESTIC Box office. By Domestic, I mean the box office in America, only.

Ok, so in domestic cases, Titanic is yes, number 1, and the Dark Knight is third. Titanic made 600,788,188 dollars domestically (http://www.the-numbers.com... is my source) while the Dark Knight in FOUR weeks, has made 441,541,000 dollars.

Also, another important point, Titanic made $28,638,131 opening weekend, while the Dark Knight made$158,411,483. Any comparison?

My opponent, however, does make a great point. That a movie can open well, and people will stop seeing it after the first week.(Spiderman 3 is a great example of this) HOWEVER, The Dark Knight is an exception. It has been number 1 in the box office for FOUR WEEKS. Also, he makes a point that people won't want to see it more than once, BUT, I know people who have seen the movie 3 times now, and even CRITICS say the movie is worth seeing more than once. This is because of the great directing, great acting, and of course, the EXCEPTIONAL performance by Heath Ledger. SO, as the film is being added to international theaters, more and more people will see it two, three, and mabye even four times. And not only that, but will bring other friends to see it for the first time, and then THOSE friends see it another two, three, or four times. (This is actually how I was brought into seeing the movie)

And even IF we talk about global box office IN ADDITION to domestic, The Dark Knight will be seen over, and over, and over(As I pointed out in my last statement)

SO, I ask my opponent to bring a few facts into the debate

1) Opening week for Titanic box office

2) Opening MONTH(or the first month of release) of Titanic box office

Thank you for an EXCELLENT debate so far, and I can't wait for the next parts!
Tatarize

Con

The all-time grossing lists are all based on world wide gross. I daresay arguing about domestic gross is shifting the goal posts. I'll consider that a concession on the world wide gross list, and still consider that to be the main point of the debate. And go ahead and point out that Titanic isn't going to be outstripped domestically either.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Checking your source you should also note that comparisons between the straight dollar amounts without taking inflation into context gives completely silly numbers. Unless we're going to suggest that the 40 Year Old Virgin did better than every Shirley Temple movie combined we need to account for the worth of a dollar. Notice that Titanic in the list on the link you gave adjusted for inflation 1997 Titanic $886,359,440. Dark Knight is a bit less than half of that.

I fully concede that Dark Knight made massive amounts of money it's opening weekend. It beat Spider Man 3. How did Spider Man 3 fair against Titanic? Oh, down at the bottom of the list. To figure out how well the Dark Knight should do domestically we need to look at the trends rather than the opening day figures.

http://www.the-numbers.com...

7/18/2008 $158,411,483 $158,411,483
7/25/2008 $75,166,466 $313,781,677 -52.55%
8/1/2008 $42,664,219 $393,751,065 -43.24%
8/8/2008 $26,117,030 $441,628,497 -38.78%

It opened 158 million, then lost about half that for the second weekend and a bit under half that for the third. If we figure a 40% loss per week which if you check the numbers for other blockbuster pictures like Spider Man 3 seems to trend like that (though Dark Knight opened bigger).

http://www.the-numbers.com...

Figuring in the weeks gross we have 158 million for the first weekend(3 day rather than a week), and 155 million by (and including) the next weekend, and 80 for the next, 48 for the next week. Lets figure only a 40% loss each week.

1 week: 28 million.
2 week: 17 million.
3 week: 10 million.
4 week: 6 million.
5 week: 3.7 million.
6 week: 2 million.
etc: ~ 4 million (converging series/guess).

This means Dark Knight probably has 70 million dollars left to make. This puts the domestic gross at ~511 million. Titanic gross is 600 million, and 886 million when you account (properly) for inflation.

http://www.the-numbers.com...

The weekend trends on Titanic aren't simply down by 40 every week, they go down ten then up 200 then down 20 and up 10. It stayed on the charts for a long long time. You can't just say see Titanic's opening weekend was a lot like the fourth week of Dark Knight therefore Dark Knight has another 600 million in it. Titanic appealed to a different kind of audience.

"That a movie can open well, and people will stop seeing it after the first week.(Spiderman 3 is a great example of this) HOWEVER, The Dark Knight is an exception. It has been number 1 in the box office for FOUR WEEKS."

--ZOMG FOUR WEEKS! Is that like the 15 weeks Titanic was #1 or the four weeks Return of the King was #1? Also look at the midweek values. For daily totals Dark Knight dropped down to as low as 3rd last Wednesday and regularly is second for the mid week days.

----

Dark Knight isn't going to make 1.1 billion dollars world wide to offset the all-time grossing list. Dark Knight isn't going to make the 445 million domestically to overtake Titanic's inflation adjusted gross. Dark Knight isn't even going to make the 159 million to overtake Titanic's non-adjusted gross. It'll probably make about 70 million dollars more in the coming weeks. Probably overtaking Star Wars: A New Hope position as #2.

Regardless how skewed we try to make the metric is towards your position, you still lose. Awesome flick though.
Debate Round No. 2
whitesoxfan450

Pro

whitesoxfan450 forfeited this round.
Tatarize

Con

See round two con argument for a smack down of entire argument thus far. Was going so well too before the forfeit.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
1 week: 28 million. REAL: $26,117,030
2 week: 17 million. REAL: $16,379,293
3 week: 10 million. REAL: $10,542,424
4 week: 6 million. REAL: $8,622,879
5 week: 3.7 million. REAL: $5,515,119
6 week: 2 million. REAL: $4,128,153
7 week: $2,915,174
Now.

Currently at $722 above my estimate of $711 with probably another 10 million or so (guessing from the less pronounced drop off in sales than estimated.

I'm still impressed with my numbers.
Posted by whitesoxfan450 9 years ago
whitesoxfan450
Sorry about the forefit! I had to start writing debate files(Framework, ahh!!)

GREAT round though! Best I've had in a while!
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
See round two con argument for a smack down of entire argument thus far. Was going so well too before the forfeit.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
I hope this sends you an email... you have four hours left man...
Posted by Zero 9 years ago
Zero
"SO, I ask my opponent to bring a few facts into the debate"

http://www.imdb.com...
Posted by Zero 9 years ago
Zero
It cannot beat Titantic based on it's current pace. At best, you can hope that the DVD sales are strong.
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