The Instigator
Xie-Xijivuli
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
crackofdawn_Jr
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points

The Death Penalty

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/20/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,144 times Debate No: 7915
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (4)

 

Xie-Xijivuli

Con

Thanks to crackofdawn_Jr. for accepting. I hope everyone will enjoy it as much as I do. (NOTE: I will asses this frmoa Biblical perspective, seeing as we are both Christians.)

Before I begin, I'd like to ask these questions to my opponent:

What are some benefits of the death penalty? Unbeneficial effects?
Do you think the Jesus would support the death penalty? Why or why not?
What are the Bible's regards for killing?

Once these are answered, I will go through with the debate. Thanks!
crackofdawn_Jr

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for sending me the challenge to this debate. Since he didn't post any arguments in the first round, I won't either to make things fair. In this opening round I will simply answer my opponent's questions and clarify my point of view.

<>

Some benefits would be that it could help curb crime because of people fearing this punishment. Another benefit is to stop the overcrowding of jails (http://justana-justana.blogspot.com...). The death penalty can also help prevent further travesties from occuring.

<>

Yes, I believe that Jesus would support the death penalty in certain situations. I believe this because Jesus is essentially God and God asks his people to kill the other evil nations and law-breakers throughout the old testament.

<>

The Bible promotes killing of people who've had more serious offences like adultery, rape, and murder.

If my opponent wants me to source specific spots in The Bible in the next round, please say so.

I would just like to clarify that I am NOT for the death penalty on everything. I am only for it in certain cases and think that the option should always be available.

Good luck
Debate Round No. 1
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

I apologize for the time taken to respond. I just finished three days of SATs.

====
Some benefits would be that it could help curb crime because of people fearing this punishment. Another benefit is to stop the overcrowding of jails (http://justana-justana.blogspot.com......). The death penalty can also help prevent further travesties from occuring.
====

(NOTE: Please let me know of some unbeneficial effects as I asked before. Thanks!)

No matter what happens, a human is a person created by the divine God, who made us individually for our own purpose. (See next rebuttal)

Jesus hung out with, if you excuse my language, thieves, corrupt men, sleazy prostitutes, and etc. He loved each and every one of them, and I am sure He did not want them killed.

====
Yes, I believe that Jesus would support the death penalty in certain situations. I believe this because Jesus is essentially God and God asks his people to kill the other evil nations and law-breakers throughout the old testament.
====

Mark 10:19 KJV
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke 18:20 KJV
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

James 2:11 KJV
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

The Old Testament -- a history of God's people, is not the Law we as Christians follow. We do not go by "an eye for an eye," but rather "turn the other cheek." We follow the peaceful teachings of Jesus, which tell you to not hurt another person.

God tells his people, "Do not kill" even in the Old Testament. He did, however, make exceptions for the evil. Not though that those he killed were nations of evil, not juyst one person.

>> We follow the new law of Jesus; we do not kill as Christians. We do not follow the Old Law of the covenant.<<

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The Bible promotes killing of people who've had more serious offences like adultery, rape, and murder.

If my opponent wants me to source specific spots in The Bible in the next round, please say so.

====

I'd like to see a source outside of the Old Testament.

The Bible, in the Commandments, forbids killing. I'd very much like to see a verse that "promotes killing."

Thanks!
crackofdawn_Jr

Pro

Thank you for your timely response. I would like to ask that you don't post your argument Friday as I will be gone Saturday and Sunday and don't want to be rushed Monday.

<<(NOTE: Please let me know of some unbeneficial effects as I asked before. Thanks!)>>

I don't wish to give you your own arguments.

The rest of your quotations from the Bible say do not kill. However, this is the King James' Version and so the translations can be disputed. The King James Version is the translation of a translation of a translation and so the meaning of certain words could be misinterpreted or wrong. By "do not kill" I believe Jesus meant "do not murder."

<>

God is never changing and to follow only some of his laws is to sin and go to hell. Whether the old or new testament, we must follow the rules that he laid down for us or face the consequences.

God tells us not to murder:

Exodus 20:13
You must not murder.

God tells us to kill in certain circumstances:

Exodus 21:12
Anyone who assaults and kills another person must be put to death.

Exodus 21:13
But if it was simply an accident permitted by God, I will appoint a place of refuge where the slayer can run for safety.

Exodus 21: 14
However, if someone deliberately kills another person, then the slayer must be dragged even from my altar and be put to death.

Exodus 21:15
Anyone who strikes father or mother must be put to death.

Exodus 21:16
Kidnappers must be put to death, whether they are caught in possession of their victims or have already sold them as slaves.

Exodus 21:17
Anyone who dishonors father or mother must be put to death.

And on and on and on...

The point is that God's will and morals never change like society's will and morals. He is omnibenevolent Lord of all things. Here are quotes from the new testament where Jesus says the Laws of Moses still stand, or an instance of God killing, etc.

Matthew 5:17
Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

Matthew 11:20-24
Then Jesus began to denounce the towns where he had done so many of his miracles because they hadn't repented of their sins and turned to God. "What sorrow awaits you, Korazin and Bethsaida! For if the miracles I did in you had been done in wicked Tyre and Sidon, their people would have repented of their sins long ago, clothing themselves in burlap and throwing ashes on their heads to show their remorse. I tell you, Tyre and Sidon will be better off on judgement day than you. And you people of Capernaum, will you be honored in heaven? No, you will go down to the place of the dead. For if the miracles I did for you had been done in wicked Sodom, it would still be here today. I tell you, even Sodom will be better off on judgement day than you."

Matthew 15:4-7
"For instance, God says ,'Honor your father and mother,' and 'Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.' But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents,'Sorry, I can't help you. For I have vowed to give God what I would have given you.' In this way, you say they don't need to honro their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,"

Mark 7:9-11
Then he said, "You skillfully sidestep God's law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: 'Honor your father and mother,' and 'Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.' But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents,'Sorry, I can't help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given you.

Acts 12:23
Instantly, an angel of the Lord struck Herod with a sickness, because he accepted the people's worship instead of giving glory to God. So he was consumed with worms and died.

1 Corinthians 3:17
God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

1 Corinthians 10:9-10
Nor should we put Christ to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. And don't grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death.

So obviously, the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Bible as a whole says that in certain instances killing is alright.

Good luck!
Debate Round No. 2
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

Once again, a good many of your quotes are the old law.

IN your other quotes...

Jesus, in these verses, is warning the people of their judgement. Jesus is warning them they will die id they do not repent. They will die not by man's killing, as is in the death penalty, but by God's will. Since God's will isn't necessarily expressed in the death penalty -- the killing of his children -- it is unbiblical.

The KJV is the most accurate version available (see video.)

====
So obviously, the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Bible as a whole says that in certain instances killing is alright.
====

Ah, but it does not say which circumstances it is permissable in. Until you know there circumstances, hyou cannot keep killing criminals because it is, as I stated before, unbiblical.
crackofdawn_Jr

Pro

<>

Once again, Jesus said he did not come to abolish the old law.

Matthew 5:17
Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the Law of Moses or writings of the prophets. NO, I came to accomplish their purpose.

Jesus tells us a situation in which killing is okay.

Matthew 15:4-7
Matthew 7:9-11

Overall it can be seen that the old laws say to punish individuals with death for things like adultery, rape, murder, and kidnapping and that Jesus "did not come to abolish the Law of Moses".

<< Since God's will isn't necessarily expressed in the death penalty -- the killing of his children -- it is unbiblical.>>

God's will is unchanging and so his feelings on the death penalty never change.

<>

Yes it does, especially in Exodus. The list includes but is not exclusively made of rape, murder, kidnapping, and adultery.

The King James argument is unnecessary for the purposes of this debate.

I have given you Biblical evidence and quotes to back up my argument while you use just what YOU think is right and wrong. This was a great debate and I'm happy to do it again sometime.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by crackofdawn_Jr 7 years ago
crackofdawn_Jr
No, I'd say we were about tied until your last round.
Posted by Xie-Xijivuli 7 years ago
Xie-Xijivuli
Was I really THAT BAD?!
Posted by FemaleGamer 7 years ago
FemaleGamer
Wow, Xie. 0 Points? Tisk tisk!
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
It looks as if that didn't work...

Killing=/=Murder...
Posted by crackofdawn_Jr 7 years ago
crackofdawn_Jr
I won't be able to post Saturday or Sunday so please don't post your argument on Friday. I'll try and post my argument tomorrow.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Mattowander 7 years ago
Mattowander
Xie-Xijivulicrackofdawn_JrTied
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Xie-Xijivulicrackofdawn_JrTied
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Vote Placed by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
Xie-Xijivulicrackofdawn_JrTied
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Vote Placed by crackofdawn_Jr 7 years ago
crackofdawn_Jr
Xie-Xijivulicrackofdawn_JrTied
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