The Instigator
afeinberg
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
adamh
Con (against)
Winning
52 Points

The Democratic Party fights for Jewish values.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,678 times Debate No: 223
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (21)

 

afeinberg

Pro

The Iraqi War caused the collapse of a secular dictator. This collapse created an open terrorist state in the heart of the Middle East and an empowered Iran. It was because of the fall of Iraq that Iran is able to act so freely outside of its borders. The Iraqi War worsened Israel's security.

The Nazi regime of Germany (1933-1945) painted a picture of the Jews as money-grubbing and selfish. Voting Republican supports this image.

What the Jewish community has learned from the Holocaust is not to be intolerant of the heritages of others, to take advantage of your civil rights, and to keep watch of the government's abuse of power or negligence of a constitution. The Democratic Party embodies these values to a far greater extent than the Republican Party.

The Torah tells Jews to be guardians of the earth. Whether or not global warming exists, Jews have a responsibility to protect the air from pollution produced by greed and ignorance.

A large percentage of the Republican Party is made up of radical Protestants. Jews are largely Democrats in order to keep the country free from a wide-spread purging of Muslims, free from blind loyalty leading to fascism, and free from a government of people who believe they are warriors of God.

Historically, Jews have advocated dignity and intellect. George W. Bush is a veritable crusader against Jews in this manner.

The only reason the Republicans are so intent on supporting Israel is because they'd hate to see their adventure in the Middle East become a complete and utter failure. Saudi Arabian terrorists attacked New York on September 11th, no Iraqis and no Iranians. The reason we won't attack Saudi Arabia is that we're attached at the hip when it comes to oil. Whose fault is that but George (H.)W. Bush and his Republican cronies. The Iraqi invasion was merely a distraction from the fact that we got bored looking for Osama bin Laden.

The Democratic Party, the party of separation of church and state, the party of workers' rights, the party of civil rights, is the party that best embodies the values of the Jewish faith.
adamh

Con

Wow, you've said a lot and covered quite a few subjects! Let me take a few and break them down:

1. "The Nazi regime of Germany (1933-1945) painted a picture of the Jews as money-grubbing and selfish. Voting Republican supports this image."

From reading this quote I assume you're implying that Republicans are money-grubbing and selfish. Let me begin by telling you that I personally do not have that impression of Jewish people and I would not consider myself (a conservative Republican) either of those. This is a common stereotype 'painted' by the liberal media. The truth of the matter is this: a major part of the Republican party ethos is the idea of self-reliance and personal responsibility. To many ignorant folks it comes off as selfish or money-grubbing because they are well-off. More often then not these folks worked very hard to get to where they are and it's because they took responsibility for their lives and made something of themselves.

2. "What the Jewish community has learned from the Holocaust is not to be intolerant of the heritages of others, to take advantage of your civil rights, and to keep watch of the government's abuse of power or negligence of a constitution. The Democratic Party embodies these values to a far greater extent than the Republican Party."

This is phrased pretty well, however, your conclusion is wrong. The Republican party is not intolerant of others heritages. People seem to think this is the case since we simply want to have a border to our country.

As far as liberals go on civil rights, you must be joking. Liberals want to take away or restrict many of your personal freedoms including your right to bear arms, which is apparent through their legislation forcing more gun laws on us. They are restricting Freedom of religion and they're doing so by showing partiality towards religions like Islam, while they constantly working to degrade Christianity and Judaism.

The only area that republicans could be called out on restricting your freedom is on the issue of abortion, and the reason there are many pro-life republicans is because they don't see it as a freedom issue, they see it as an issue of the law - murder. And besides, one of the Jewish faith would certainly recognize that if a woman gets pregnant it's because it was God's will. Who are they to go against God's plan for that child?

3. "The Torah tells Jews to be guardians of the earth. Whether or not global warming exists, Jews have a responsibility to protect the air from pollution produced by greed and ignorance."

And so do the 'radical protestants', we have the same God ya' know? Once again you seem to have given into a common misconception that the Republican party doesn't care about the environment. Perhaps you should look into the book "A Contract with the Earth" by Newt Gingrich who is a very well-known Republican figure.

4. "The only reason the Republicans are so intent on supporting Israel is because they'd hate to see their adventure in the Middle East become a complete and utter failure."

America is supporting Israel so the Palestinians don't run it down into a Muslim-extremist, terrorist nation. It's also because we would hate to see Israel 50 years down the road, be in the same boat the Iraq was in when Saddam was in power. The idea is to stop Israel from becoming another Iraq.

5."Saudi Arabian terrorists attacked New York on September 11th, no Iraqis and no Iranians. The reason we won't attack Saudi Arabia is that we're attached at the hip when it comes to oil. Whose fault is that but George (H.)W. Bush and his Republican cronies. The Iraqi invasion was merely a distraction from the fact that we got bored looking for Osama bin Laden."

To say that we didn't attack Saudi Arabia because of oil is bs. First of all, SA supplies a small amount of our oil. Canada and Mexico are our biggest oil suppliers. Also, Africa supplies as much oil to us as the whole Middle East does, so really Saudi Arabia's oil supply is not that important to us, all things considered. The reason we didn't attack SA is because they aren't the terrorists in this case. Yes the bombers were from Saudi Arabia, but they were recruited by Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and that is where the organization thrives. Iran and Iraq have nothing to with Al-Qaeda, 9/11, or Oil. Iraq has to do with getting Saddam out of power and help Iraq become a great democracy and ally. Iran has to do with stopping Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from going through with another holocaust. Jews should appreciate the fact we're trying to stop him before he can make good on his anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, and nuclear threats.

6. "The Democratic Party, the party of separation of church and state, the party of workers' rights, the party of civil rights, is the party that best embodies the values of the Jewish faith."

I disagree. The democratic party is the party of: anti-religion and hatred, socialist government, restricting personal freedom, anti-growth, and abhorring the American way.

That got long quick, sorry. I'll try to keep the next one short.
Debate Round No. 1
afeinberg

Pro

afeinberg forfeited this round.
adamh

Con

It's ashame you didn't get a chance to take you turn, so I'll make mine short. Here are 3, what I would consider Jewish values with a little description.

• Social Justice: Engaging in acts of loving-kindness or repairing the world, and encouraging creative & strategic action in addressing social issues.
Repairing Iraq and helping them become a democracy and free people is part of this.

• Spirituality: Experiencing awe, wonder, and amazement in that which is greater than ourselves through the exploration of faith, belief, and life's 'big' questions.
Democrats have done nothing but hurt religion specifically Christianity and Judaism. Religion is offensive to a small percentage of the population even though the majority believes in a higher being. Never the less, minority rules and Judaism is cast aside.

• Israel: Exploring educational, cultural, or political aspects of Israel or advocating for Israel as the Jewish and democratic state within secure and recognized borders and as a member of the family of free nations.
The Democrats want nothing to do with helping Israel and are becoming more anti-semitic everyday Congress is in session.
Debate Round No. 2
afeinberg

Pro

My apologies for missing the response deadline; this week I took final exams. Let me begin my response with this statement:
I respect those who disagree with me. We are both Americans and obviously both love our country. Here is where I disagree:
It is true that many Republicans are well-off. It's because of this that many don't care about people at or near poverty. They say, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or utilize the "trickle-down" economic system. The truth of the matter is that most fiscally disadvantaged persons were born that way. The rags to riches stories might be highlighted, but they are far from commonplace. Social and economic mobility is scarce when the minimum wage is not enough to survive. It's counterproductive for rich people to tell poor people that they have a personal responsibility to move up; it's easy enough for them to say, most of them inherited their money. Frankly, I'm amazed by poor Republicans. Their votes put more power to big business, which signed no contract (The Constitution) to keep them safe.
I agree that we need a border fence. I agree that amnesty for illegal workers would be disastrous. However, many far-right radicals wish to purge them forcefully from our cities. Illegal immigrants are some of the most hard-working, America-loving people on the planet. They deserve a chance to pay taxes and work here legally. I don't believe most contempt for illegal immigrants is racially motivated. There are some polls that suggest, however, that religious intolerance still exists within the GOP. My previous governor, the then socially progressive Mitt Romney, is a Mormon. The bluest of the blue states, Massachusetts, doesn't give a damn if Romney's Mormon because we keep religion and government separate. A CNN poll reads that roughly 30% of Americans would never vote for a Mormon. Does this suggest that liberals or conservatives, with their 'bringing faith to the state' attitude are more bigoted towards him? Let me remind you that the GOP is the party of choice for Strom Thurmond (he switched after the Civil Rights movement--real shocker), Jerry Falwell, Ann Coulter (a vicious anti-Semite), and Pat Robertson.
I have a right to bear arms. I enjoy my right to bear arms. When the far-right hears the words 'gun control' they hear 'taking away my guns'. This is a huge misconception. Mike Huckabee and other Republicans viewed the tragic events at Virginia Tech earlier this year and commented that it could have been prevented had more students had guns. Give me a break. The law in Virginia is 'if you have the money you can have the gun'. Gun control is keeping guns from convicted felons and psychopaths; as far as I'm concerned, they've forfeited their second amendment rights. I don't want drug addicts and mental patients to have the ability to walk around my town in broad daylight with guns. On religion, you're clearly the mouthpiece of Mr. Bill O'Reilly. All or close to all Democrats in the state and federal governments are either practicing Christians or practicing Jews. Hillary Clinton, Methodist. Nancy Pelosi, Roman Catholic. Harry Reid, Mormon. Russ Feingold, Jewish. Please tell me where the Democratic Party is in any, and I mean any, way, shape, or form partial to Islam.
A woman gets pregnant if one of her egg cells gets fertilized. This is often the result of a woman's free will. The Jewish God has no hand in impregnating people; you're thinking of Christianity. If a firefighter sees an embryo on a petri dish and a crying baby in a burning building, I think he'd save the baby first. Tell me one experience you had while in your mother's womb and I'll convert to the anti-abortion crowd. Until then, I'll be siding with the raped woman who won't resort to a clothes hanger in an alley. God cares about her just as much--maybe more, because she can actually perceive and have her life ruined.
I admire Republicans who seem more willing to compromise on the environment than any other issue, yet most seem to hold the economy high above it. The far-right and their foot soldiers at Fox News seem to be perpetually injecting doubt into global warming--an emergency everyone else in the world seems to get except Republicans who are pissed at Al Gore for winning the Nobel Prize.
American foreign policy is terribly backward. The Iraq War was a war on secularists; I thought we were supposed to be fighting fundamentalists. Saddam was a hideous human being, but our methods of extracting him were far more detrimental to us, Iraqis, and Israelis than his ruling as dictator. The far-right can't talk out of both sides of their mouth on this issue: progressives can't be terrorist-loving Muslim extremists and secular Commies at the same time. "The Iraq Study Group Report", a report that the far-right shies away from, outlines Israeli policy within this context on page 55: "No American administration--Democratic or Republican--will ever abandon Israel".
I approve of our military adventures in Afghanistan, and so did the vast majority of the world. The War on Terror, on the other hand, is a merely a phrase that is the pretext for more war. No matter how hard we try, we can't bomb our way to peace. We need to cut back on our military bases around the world--bin Laden calls on them as a provocation for his actions. Muslim terrorists are created when we piss them off; bombing the hell out of Iraq doesn't help. As for Ahmadinejad, Iran is far more sophisticated than any other Muslim nation. The dictatorship is largely unpopular. Free expression and Jewish members of Parliament are far more common than in any nearby state. The world would take his threats far more seriously if we hadn't denigrated our intelligence's reputation with Iraq. I believe that military action 'is' a last resort, but I am disgusted by how quickly Bush wants to involve himself in another crusade. The far-right and Ahmadinejad both have religious views that hinder their national advancement. It seems like the only thing worse to them than another 9/11 is a marine stopping it who happened to be gay and cured of cancer by stem cells.
The Democratic Party is by no means anti-religion. I'm a practicing Jew and a lifelong Democrat. So is Carl Levin, Frank Lautenberg, Herb Kohl, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, Ron Wyden, Charles Schumer, Ben Cardin, and 29 out of 30 Jewish representatives, to name a few.
When Fox News mentions the word 'socialist' it's acceptable. After all, they don't know any other term for anyone left of Ann Coulter. China is socialist. The USSR was socialist. The Democratic Party is by far the least left of all of the world's leftest parties; they can't even pass universal health care, which all other industrialized nations have been able to do, because they're afraid of being called devil-worshiping Commies. Visit Europe and talk to the people there. They've seen Communism. They've seen Fascism. They've seen Socialism. They've seen Theocracy. America is nowhere near close to any of them.
My nearly 800-year-old right to Habeus Corpus and my right to speak privately on my telephone come before my right to evade taxes.
If growth means growing the gap between the rich and poor then I don't consider it a good thing. First let's make sure our citizens can eat, then we'll make sure they can afford a BMW.
The American way, to me, is defined by my right to my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. If we become a nation that does not respect my views or no longer adheres the constitution, the state could legally kill me. If Lutherans hijack Washington and force me to abide by the laws of their church, which they are starting to do, I will have lost my liberty. If the private sector treats me like a money-making machine instead of a human being, I could no longer strive to be happy.
I came to admire the Democratic Party's principles not because they pandered to my faith, but because they adhered to my faith.
adamh

Con

I must disagree that well-off Republicans don't care about the poor. It's simply not true for several reasons, the biggest one being that America is the most generous nation on the face of the Earth in terms of charity and donation towards the less-fortunate. With that knowledge you can't assume that the well-off and middle-class Americans are not contributing a large amount to this cause. I'd also like to point out that, while the general consensus says that rich people are Republicans, it simply is not true. The Republican party is made up of mostly middle-class Americans. The Democrat party is the party of those in the lower-middle-class and poverty levels, but it is also the party of the rich. The majority of upper-class Americans are now registered members of the Democrat party, however, everyone still plays into the old stereotype that Republicans are rich and stuck up when it simply isn't true. The Republican party is the party of the common man, the middle-class man.

Another unfair judgement of Republicans is the assumption we are against people of other nations from coming into America, that we're some sort of xenophobes. Once again, people take a stance Republicans hold and twist it to make them look evil. The Republican party stands for enforcing the law when people want to come to America, that's all. We don't discourage people from coming, we want everyone to have a chance at living the American dream, we just believe that they must follow a strict set of steps to do so. If they truly want to come to America for the right reasons than they will wait patiently, abiding the law.

I'd like to take your view of pregnancy as stated in your last post. You said the "Jewish God has no hand in impregnating people; you're thinking of Christianity." I don't know if this was a Jesus joke or if you actually think that Christians believe God can impregnate them...anyways. My point was that if a woman gets pregnant (by a human male), than I and a Jewish person would both believe that it was God's will for that to happen. You say that if I could recall one experience while in my mothers womb you would convert to Pro-Life, well, to be honest I can't recall any. But then again, I can't recall anything during the first 2-3 years of my life, does that mean I was not a human being? I am pro-choice, but not in the traditional sense. You see, I believe the mother has the choice when she decides to have sex. If you do not want a child, do not have sex, this is not a decision to be made after the act has been done. As far as rapes go, many pro-lifers are okay with an abortion in that circumstance, granted giving the child up for adoption would be the preferred option.

Your general distaste for anything other than CNN comes as no surprise. You are quick to jump on the bandwagon that attacks FoxNews simply because they do not employ a left-leaning broadcast. The fact of the matter is CNN and MSNBC along with the big stations like NBC, ABC, and CBS, have liberal biases in their news broadcasts. You and every other democrat will deny this to the end but you know it's true. It's just like FoxNews leans right, I know it and I'm not afraid to admit it. We have FoxNews while every other station out there transmits liberal ideology through their transmittance of the daily news. Liberals attack FoxNews because they have right political leanings, but they won't even admit that their news sources are the most biased of all. Everything you said, from Global Warming to Saddam Hussein's regime to Iran's "sophisticated" nation is right out of the flowery Democrat playbook executed every night on NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams. You have a cut-and-paste ideology on many subjects and don't think for yourself, you let the platform and the media think for you. At least I, as a Conservative Republican (note the conservative comes Before the Republican, I am a conservative first), can honestly say that I take each issue as a separate entity before making my decision on my beliefs. I don't automatically assume everything I hear on FoxNews is true and I don't agree with several viewpoints that have been displayed by FoxNews affiliates. As a matter of fact I do not at all like Bill O'Reilly or Ann Coulter, once again you make assumptions.

I love this country because it is unlike every other nation out there. The people are free. Yes, I know people are "free" in other countries, but they aren't like America, they're not as great. This is because they are not free on the same level as Americans are. The Democrat party does nothing but keep people down, dependent on them! I'll say that again as it is the most important statement I've made regarding the Democrat party - Democrats keep the poor down and dependent on them. They promise to give them everything they want (like a mommy would) in exchange for their vote. The Republican party says we'll give you everything you need in exchange for your complete freedom and your vote. The freer the markets the freer the people. The less government in private life the better. Abraham Lincoln once said, "You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." This is the audience to whom the Democrats target because they know that these people will give up many of their freedoms in exchange for a Big Brother giving them everything the need so they don't have to handle it themselves.

I'm not a Republican because the party panders to my faith, my first loyalty is to God followed by my country. If voting a certain way helps me live in a country that has policies that allow me to be both a follower of Christ and a good American, than I will most certainly cast my vote accordingly. It seems many Jewish Democrats are voting as such because they want to be overly tolerant of others, an anything goes mentality. It is a good thing to be tolerant and to love everyone as much as you love yourself, but as GK Chesterton wrote, "(Over-) tolerance is the virtue of a man without any convictions."
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by jessica.spangler 9 years ago
jessica.spangler
I am sorry pro I am just afraid there is no supporting evidence that dems fights for Jewish values. In fact based on what I have seen and what con has debated I don't see the dems standing for much of any values. much less Jewish values. Good debate con!
Posted by C-Mach 9 years ago
C-Mach
I'm a Republican and most if not all of my best friends are either Jewish or have Jewish relatives, so I don't get your drift.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
I wonder why you think you are so important, when you make up only 2.5% of the American population.
Posted by afeinberg 9 years ago
afeinberg
I realize that posting a comment as a contender might be frowned upon, but I would like to clarify my views: I am not the spokesman for the Democratic Party.

In fact I align my views with the Republican Party on late-term abortion, immigration, gun rights, and affirmative action.

I never once said which stations I watch. I get all my news from bbc.co.uk and C-SPAN, which for all intents and purposes are 'unbiased'.

Fundamentalism and state worship as seen in Germany in WWII are the enemies of the Jewish people. When an administration questions the loyalty of the public, they've become state worshippers.

I hope you all take the time to read our arguments and vote based on them and not on your party affiliations.

I enjoyed this, my first debate, and thank Adam H. for challenging me.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Wait Jews aren't money grubbing and selfish? But I've always admired the Jewish religion for it's basic commitment, however flawed, to that ideal 0_0...
Posted by griffinisright 9 years ago
griffinisright
I am sorry afeinberg but I honestly do not see any values being defended by the democratic party. Your information just doesn't add up. I am going to have to give this one to adamh.
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
pro side, you are so VERY opinionated (not that that's bad). back it up. You make claims that have no reference (so does con, but you're worse about it). Please don't marginalize groups, whether it's the GOP or democrats or anyone. You say all these people with sometimes radical views and say GOP is their party. The same could be done to the Democratic party, but i'm glad no one has so far...because it's wrong. Radicals will affiliate themselves with who they will. It goes both ways.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Con will win for sure if the pro doesn't start throwing facts out there. He is using nothing but opinions that he obviously gets from far-left sources.

Radical Protestants? Are you serious? What exactly do you consider radical?? Also, the Right has been supporting Israel before 9/11.
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