The Instigator
kenito001
Pro (for)
Winning
33 Points
The Contender
tarsjake
Con (against)
Losing
30 Points

The Democratic leadership is more capable of winning the War on Terror than the Republican leaders

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,660 times Debate No: 1419
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (17)

 

kenito001

Pro

The most capable foreign policy genius, Joe Biden, Senator from Delaware, is the solution to America's international quagmires. Senator Biden is admired by the international community as a voice of reason who only has the best interests of America as priority.

For this debate, my opponent should present a case supporting a politician from the Republican party whose ideas and leadership are better than what Joe Biden can offer. Although Joe Biden has withdrawn his Presidential bid, his appointment as a Vice Presidential nominee or Secretary of State would restore legitimacy to American foreign policy.
tarsjake

Con

Are talking about the democratic leadership or Joe Biden? Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have zero military experience and their only solution is bring home all troops now, losing all progress we have made. However Senator Biden, whom i deeply respect, suggested a redeployment of troops in Iraq. This i sensible but the surge strategy is working. The year started out with 83 deaths in January and 81 each in February and March. The numbers jumped higher in the spring, with 104 in April, 126 in May and 101 in June. As the military established its new counterinsurgency strategy, the attacks began dropping from the 101 deaths tallied in June to 78 in July, 84 in August, 65 in September, 38 in October, 37 in November, and 23 in December. It is blantenly obvious that the surge is working. The democratic LEADERSHIP has no position but to pull out of iraq.

"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything" Harry Reid

The democrats NEED us to lose this war for there party's survival.
Debate Round No. 1
kenito001

Pro

"For this debate, my opponent should present a case supporting a politician from the Republican party whose ideas and leadership are better than what Joe Biden can offer. Although Joe Biden has withdrawn his Presidential bid, his appointment as a Vice Presidential nominee or Secretary of State would restore legitimacy to American foreign policy"

As I stated, to win this debate, you must present a candidate or politician who is more qualified to lead American foreign policy than Joe Biden.
tarsjake

Con

I would say that ANY of the GOP candidates are better qualified than Joe Biden. However if i had to pick i would say Senator McCain, he supported the surge when it was unpopular, and its working. Can Joe Biden say that?
Debate Round No. 2
kenito001

Pro

For the purposes of my arguments, I will be directly comparing Senator John McCain to Senator Joe Biden for the purposes of leading America's foreign policy and the War on Terror.

The key to restoring America's respectability in the world is to have a leader that the international community respects. Mr. Biden is a long time member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee, in 1997 becoming a ranking minority member and being declared Chairman for the 110th Congress. To show how the international community respects Biden, in October 2001, Pervez Musharraf, the leader of Pakistan, did not communicate with even President Bush after 9/11, but first spoke to Joe Biden by phone calling Biden himself.

While McCain has served in the Senate since only 1986, Biden has served as a Senator of Delaware since 1973, having been the 5th youngest Senator in history to ever take office. McCain has more personal experience, having served in the Navy before and during Vietnam, however, that is no longer considered an important criteria for American politics. The last 3 Presidents have no military experience.

Joe Biden has THE political solution to Iraq, not a military solution like the surge. John McCain's troop surge helped to slow the bleeding in Iraq (literally and metaphorically), although he provides no long-term solution to Iraq. McCain's plan consisted of increasing the number of troops in Iraq to quell the violence, hoping that calm can be instilled long enough for the Iraqi Parliament and government to strengthen themselves politically. While the number of deaths have increased and the statistics support the surge, the Iraq Parliament is not the solution for Iraq to exist. In order to address the issue of Iraq, there must be put in place a long-term solution to stop the sectarian violence. While Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi want to save troops, all the Republican leaders want to do is fix Iraq to leave it, without caring how long it will last after the US leaves. Sure, the Parliament could last at least a decade, but the best support to America would be to have an ally in Iraq that will last for a century.

Joe Biden's solution, presented in November 2006, proposes to neither withdraw nor stay the course, but to establish a federalist government over Iraq that allows for three separate states of Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd. This would give autonomous power to all three governments while allotting "breathing room" to disarm the bomb that is Iraq. John McCain has yet to propose a solution past the troop surge, taking more of a laissez-faire standpoint. The solution, contrary to critics, is not a hard-partition but a soft-partition.

"Slowly but surely, we're building a consensus in the Congress around a way forward in Iraq. That's significant, because it's the only real way to end this war. Everyone agrees that there is no military solution in Iraq, only a political solution. That begs the question: so, what is your political solution? We have an obligation to answer that question and today, leaders from both parties answered with one voice. This may be President Bush's war. But it is America's future. Together, we have to get this right. Today, we are one step closer to doing just that."
- Joe Biden

Joe Biden is more qualified than any of the Presidential candidates to lead America's rebuilding of Iraq. The Republican candidates focus on statistics and persuasion to convince the American public that Iraq is improving and not a lost cause. While I agree that it is not a lost cause, Iraq is certainly not improving as it should despite the claims of the near-sighted Republican candidates.
tarsjake

Con

Senator Biden's ideas sound great... IN THEORY! Just like socialism, it sounds great but can it work? The surge is WORKING we are making huge progress in Iraq. Also senator Biden has no military experience, the plan sounds good but he has no idea it will work. That is why i am hesitant to change my position from the proven surge method to the three state method.
Debate Round No. 3
kenito001

Pro

"Senator Biden's ideas sound great... IN THEORY! Just like socialism, it sounds great but can it work?"
It's not like socialism. There's a reason why he holds leadership positions and the international community respects him. And yes, it can work. Why would it not? Both myself and Les Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, agree that it will work.

"The surge is WORKING we are making huge progress in Iraq"
I agreed that the surge is working. However, it is not a long-term solution, it is only a short-term one. Once there is a reduction of American presence, then the sectarian violence will once again begin to increase. Their cultures have clashed for over 1200 years, one troop surge won't stop it forever. The political solution posed by Biden gives Iraq a chance to rebuild itself permanently and help prepare the country for the inevitable withdrawal. Even if American forces stay for twenty years, unless a political solution is implemented then as soon as American presence begins to recede the violence will once again increase. The troop surge is merely a band-aid to reduce the bleeding. Joe Biden's plan is the stitches needed to patch up the wound.

"Also senator Biden has no military experience"
As I previously stated, this is unnecessary for modern politics. Biden has equal military experience to Bush, the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, and much much more political experience.

I will refrain that I agree with you that the troop surge is working, but it is a temporary fix.

President Bush set the following 6 benchmarks for the success of the surge:
1. Let the Iraqis lead;
The surge has failed to remotely accomplish this.
2. Help Iraqis protect the population;
This is causation with US presence so long as the Iraqi's aren't self-sufficient.
3. Isolate extremists;
The US has been victorious thus far here.
4. Create space for political progress;
US has done this, but hasn't set the standards for the course of political progress.
5. Diversify political and economic efforts;
The troop surge accomplishes this but does not keep it this way.
6. Situate the strategy in a regional approach.
This essentially calls for further strategy following the surge.

[http://www.whitehouse.gov...].

McCain's goals and aspirations are short-term so long as he continues to support the surge without looking past it.

Therefore, Joe Biden is superior.

As always, jake, thanks for the debate.

-The Colonel
tarsjake

Con

Bolster Troops on the Ground

A greater military commitment now is necessary if we are to achieve long-term success in Iraq. John McCain agrees with retired Army General Jack Keane that there are simply not enough American forces in Iraq. More troops are necessary to clear and hold insurgent strongholds; to provide security for rebuilding local institutions and economies; to halt sectarian violence in Baghdad and disarm Sunni and Shia militias; to dismantle al Qaeda; to train the Iraqi Army; and to embed American personnel in Iraqi police units. Accomplishing each of these goals will require more troops and is a crucial prerequisite for needed economic and political development in the country. America's ultimate strategy is to give Iraqis the capabilities to govern and secure their own country.

Implement New Counterinsurgency Strategy

For most of the occupation, military strategy has focused on securing all of Iraq by establishing bases and conducting short operations from them. Ultimately, this secured only small areas of the country. John McCain believes the current force structure and power vacuum persisting in many areas of the country demands a more robust counterinsurgency strategy. Iraqi and American forces must not only use force to clear areas occupied by insurgents but to stay and hold these areas to deny them as a base for insurgent forces and allow economic and political development to occur in a secure environment. By emphasizing safety of the local population, this strategy will create strongholds in which insurgents find it difficult to operate.

Strengthen the Iraqi Armed Forces and Police

Building a capable Iraqi army is a central requirement for ensuring Iraq's ability to govern and protect itself long after American forces have withdrawn. The U.S. must accelerate the training and equipping of Iraqi armed forces and police to enable them to play a key role in securing Iraq. Only in a secure environment will the development of Iraq's political and economic institutions have a chance to succeed. Ultimately, Iraq's future lies in the hands of its people, government, and armed forces, and strengthening them is an essential requirement for bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq. Until Iraqi forces are ready, however, a precipitous U.S. withdrawal would condemn Iraq to civil war and intervention by its neighbors and energize al Qaeda and other jihadists across the globe. This would gravely jeopardize American security.

Create the security necessary for political progress and stability

John McCain believes that only by controlling the violence in Iraq can we pave the way for a political settlement. But once the Iraqi government wields greater authority, it will be incumbent upon Iraqi leaders to take significant steps on their own. These include a commitment to go after the militias, a reconciliation process for insurgents and Baathists, more equitable distribution of government resources, provincial elections that will bring Sunnis into the government, and a large increase in employment-generating economic projects.

Accelerate political and economic reconstruction in a secure environment

While it is crucial to focus military efforts on insurgents, particularly against Sunni fighters using violence to strengthen their political position, John McCain believes there must be a greater emphasis on non-military components promoting economic development and representative, accountable governance.

In territories newly secured by the "clear, hold, and build" counterinsurgency strategy, many of the critical steps to succeeding in Iraq can begin to be implemented. Massive reconstruction can go forward without overwhelming fear of attack and sabotage. A substantial employment program can begin to give hope and opportunity to Iraqi citizens. Political meetings and campaigning can take place more freely. Average Iraqis will be more secure as militias and terrorists are reigned in and violence reduced. All of this will help civil society to emerge and deepen.

"In Iraq our national security interests and our national values converge. Iraq is truly the test of a generation, for America and for our role in the world. Faced with similar challenges, previous generations of Americans have passed such tests with honor. It is now our turn to demonstrate that our power, ennobled by our principles, is the greatest force for good on earth today. Iraq's transformation into a secure democracy and a force for freedom in the greater Middle East is the calling of our age. We can succeed."-Senator John McCain

Iraqis need to see tangible improvements in their daily lives or support for the new government will falter. Sunnis need to know that if they abandon violence they will have a role in the political process, and the Shia need to know that security will be provided by coalition and government forces - not by private militias. Kurds need assurance that their gains will not be jeopardized by sectarian violence. All Iraqis must be able to look forward to a future of growing security and prosperity overseen by a competent, representative government free of corruption and sectarian conflict.

Keep Senior Officers in Place

The Pentagon has adopted a policy of rotating our generals in and out of Iraq almost as frequently as the rotating of troops. John McCain believes this to be a deeply flawed practice. If these are, in fact, the best leaders for the task, they should remain on the job as long as possible. These generals and other senior officers with experience possess critical situational awareness and expertise necessary to prevail.

Call for International Pressure on Syria and Iran

John McCain believes Syria and Iran have aided and abetted the violence in Iraq for too long. Syria has refused to crack down on Iraqi insurgents and foreign terrorists operating from within its territory. Iran has aided the most extreme and violent Shia militias, providing them with training, weapons, and technology that they have used to kill American troops.

The answer is not to enter into unconditional dialogues with these two dictatorships from a position of weakness. The answer is for the international community to apply real pressure to Syria and Iran to change their behavior. The United States must also bolster its regional military posture to make clear to Iran our determination to protect our forces in Iraq and to deter Iranian intervention in that country.

Win the Home front

If efforts in Iraq do not retain the support of the American people, the war will be lost as soundly as if our forces were defeated in battle. A renewed effort at home starts with explaining precisely what is at stake in this war to ensure that Americans fully understand the high cost of a military defeat. The war in Iraq is at a crossroads and the future of the entire region is at stake - a region that produced the terrorists who attacked America on 9/11 and where much of the world's energy supplies are located. Success is essential to creating peace in the region, and failure would expose the United States to national security threats for generations. Defeat in the war would lead to much more violence in Iraq, greatly embolden Iran, undermine U.S. allies such as Israel, likely lead to wider conflict, result in a terrorist safe haven in the heart of the Middle East, and gravely damage U.S. credibility throughout the world.

The American people also deserve to know that the path ahead will be long and difficult. They have heard many times that the violence in Iraq will subside soon - when a transitional government is in place, when Saddam is captured, when elections are held, when a constitution is in place. John McCain believes it is far better to describe the situation just as it is - difficult right now, but not without hope. The stakes for America could not be higher.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SocialistRI82 8 years ago
SocialistRI82
Someone tell me what "winning" in Iraq consists of. Please let me know what needs to happen before we can leave. Honestly it seems as though people feel that as long as we are there fighting that we aren't "losing". What are they fighting for over there? To protect our freedom?? To protect our liberties? No, the reason now is terrorists. But wait, there weren't any terrorists in Iraq before we invaded were there? Thats right, we went there to get rid of the weapons of......wait they weren't there either....Thats right it was to get rid of Saddam.....wait a minute, didn't we support Saddam (and arm/train) in the Iraq/Iran War?? Something isn't adding up here.....Why are we there? What are we to tell the loved ones who never get to see there child/bf/gf/husband/wife/ect ect? What explaination can we give them? Enough is enough. The problem is the people who categorize anti-iraq war people as anti-american, and anti-military. I don't understand how sparing our troops from unnecessary war zones, and saving the PEOPLE OF AMERICA billions of dollars (which could be used towards health-care/education system) is anti-american or anti-military.
Posted by kenito001 8 years ago
kenito001
And jake, for future reference, new points shouldn't be brought up in the very last round. It should be all refutations because the opponent doesn't have the opportunity to address them. You should've extended your earlier rounds instead of saving it all until the end.
Posted by kenito001 8 years ago
kenito001
"How can the Democrats win the war , if they mostly want to just quit the war. Quitting is not winning and pulling out the troops is quitting."
Read the debate, not the title. This debate isn't Dem vs. Rep, it's Biden vs. McCain
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
I think it was a really good debate. I really enjoyed it.
Posted by spencetheguy 8 years ago
spencetheguy
i agree with con but pro has better arguments.
Posted by tarsjake 8 years ago
tarsjake
socialism doesn't work. Have you figured that out yet? That is why capitialism prevailed.ha ha ha ha
Posted by SocialistRI82 8 years ago
SocialistRI82
Can we get through one debate without someone taking a shot a socialism?? ha ha ha. Enough already!
Posted by kels1123 8 years ago
kels1123
How can the Democrats win the war , if they mostly want to just quit the war. Quitting is not winning and pulling out the troops is quitting.
Posted by Stoogy 8 years ago
Stoogy
solarman needs a chill pill

i dont think it would be fair of me to conclude from that statement that republicans are angry and prejudice b/c that is how you are coming across.
Posted by kenito001 8 years ago
kenito001
"the democrats and complete fools and couldnt win a pea shooter contest"

grammar?
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