The Instigator
MolecularBird
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
Paullus
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Droid Army is Better than the Clone Army: Starwars

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
MolecularBird
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/28/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,593 times Debate No: 53571
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

MolecularBird

Pro

I believe the droid army is better.

Rules:
1. No Jedi
2. No Bounty Hunters
3. Only clones and droids

Who ever breaks these rules loses. Also please start with your argument Con.
Paullus

Con

First of all I'd like to thank everyone watching this debate round.

I will make My case on three points:

1. The ability to be better (as in the comparative of good).
2. Analysis of the nature of droids and clones.
3. Analysis of the two clone wars movies as evidence. (and a little bit of the first movie)

Before I elaborate, I would like to further define what we should mean by the "clone army" and "droid army" and place it in context of the movies.

A. By the droid army, i propose the definition of the military force used by the separatist forces and restricted to the individual droid units.

B. By clone army, I propose the definition of the military force under the command of the galactic republic and restricted only to that time-period. The army under the command of the Galactic Empire should not be used because the droid army did not exist during that time period to compare.

1. If we look at the wording of the challenge, we can see that the word "Better" is used; not, "more trained", or "more effective", or "sneakier". it is specifically: better. better is the comparative of "good".
---> this means that under this definition, whichever army can be "good" will win the debate round. droids can't (at least the cheap quality used in the army) feel or be "good", automatically defaulting the vote to the clone army, comprised of humans.

2. If we look at the intentional aim of the separatist force to create an advantage in numbers, we can further use that to prove that the droids in the Droid Army are not of high quality make. They were not intended to have the brains other droids in the Star Wars universe have. Their strength was in numbers! They were made to shoot and march. now while strong in numbers, the ability of these droids diminishes when put in difficult scenarios. The minds of humans (the clones) are in-fact MADE to adapt to situations and creatively solve problems. So in an open grassy plain maybe the droids would win because of the amount of guns firing, but when the concept of each army is rigorously put through thought experiments, the Clone Army always wins.

3. This point will be pretty long as I will be combing through episode 1 (briefly), episode 2, and episode 3 to further add warrant to my claims.

EPISODE I: The Phantom Menace.

Now I do realize that the clones do not exist yet in the Phantom Menace, But I will bring it up to show examples of how the droids cannot adapt to difficult situations.

*Situation 1: Jedi (yes I know its in the rules, but I'm not arguing for the Jedi as part of the Clone Army, but giving an example of how poorly the droids can handle unexpected situations)
- The Jedi Take them out instantly. No hard struggle, no prolonged fight, just utter devastation.

*Situation 2: the Gungan plains.
- Now if you have been following along closely you remember me saying that the droids can only win on wide open plains where the can use all of their firepower. now granted, this is true. The pretty much beat the Gungans. But WHY IS THERE ALWAYS SOME TINY FLAW THAT JUST DESTROYS EVERYTHING! Seriously. A 3rd grader takes out a ship and the entire army, granted not "single-handedly" but by destroying a simple flaw. do the clones have this? No.

ESPISODE II: Attack of the Clones

A. Genesis:
-The clones are born with the greatest computer known to human-kind as of now: the brain. Droids have cheap, mass-produced chips with breakable limbs.
-Let's face it, the clones have much cooler tech and armor. Got to love the armor!

B. When it really comes down to the fight.
-The arena: the Clones are able to take out a highly guarded outpost with their superior dropships.
-The real test in this movie: the full scale battle; The Clone Army is able to force the Droid Army off of the planet the Separatist forces use to MAKE DROIDS, and many of the droid payloads do not make it off of the planet. That shows the true force of the Clone Army in direct comparison to a much larger force in a battle

EPISODE III: The Revenge of the Sith.

A. The destruction of the Jedi: this is where I justify my Jedi Example. I am putting the scenario of many droids against two Jedi, against the scenario of only a single legion of clones, led against the whole Jedi Temple. Clones for the win if you even have just heard of the Movie.

B. The end of the Clone Wars: This example is the pinnacle of my argument and case. The debate you are reading really has been decided a long long time ago in a galaxy far, far away! The clones won the Clone Wars! Its as simple as that! Every battle shown in the movie demonstrates the ability of the clones to dominate over the droids! When pitting the clones against the droids (as this debate does), one just has to look at the actual pitting of clones against droids. there really is no way to get around this!

I will answer any questions in the comments. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
MolecularBird

Pro

For any non Starwars fans, a Jedi a warrior who is strong in the force (which allows the to manipulate objects around them, shoot lighting, and that kind of stuff)

The definition of better: of superior quality or excellence

Which ever side can prove that their side has more advantages over the other wins.

"A. By the droid army, i propose the definition of the military force used by the separatist forces and restricted to the individual droid units."

No. The topic is about the armies as a whole, not just one unit.

"By clone army, I propose the definition of the military force under the command of the galactic republic and restricted only to that time-period. The army under the command of the Galactic Empire should not be used because the droid army did not exist during that time period to compare."

I agree, the storm trooper units included mostly non clones.

"2. If we look at the intentional aim of the separatist force to create an advantage in numbers, we can further use that to prove that the droids in the Droid Army are not of high quality make. They were not intended to have the brains other droids in the Star Wars universe have. Their strength was in numbers! They were made to shoot and march. now while strong in numbers, the ability of these droids diminishes when put in difficult scenarios. The minds of humans (the clones) are in-fact MADE to adapt to situations and creatively solve problems. So in an open grassy plain maybe the droids would win because of the amount of guns firing, but when the concept of each army is rigorously put through thought experiments, the Clone Army always wins."

Not true. My opponent is stating that the droid army only had dumb droids. I will refer my opponent to this video:https://www.youtube.com.... This is a video of four droids, FOUR DROIDS, killing seven clone troopers when the clones had the advantage of defending a small doorway. The droids managed to shoot a lightsaber out of a Jedi's hand, that pretty accurate. Then could have killed him if they were not ordered to capture him, and this was a JEDI COUNCIL MEMBER, which were supposed to represent the best of the order, also I believe this shows that droids are a match for Jedi.

"Now if you have been following along closely you remember me saying that the droids can only win on wide open plains where the can use all of their firepower. now granted, this is true. The pretty much beat the Gungans. But WHY IS THERE ALWAYS SOME TINY FLAW THAT JUST DESTROYS EVERYTHING! Seriously. A 3rd grader takes out a ship and the entire army, granted not "single-handedly" but by destroying a simple flaw. do the clones have this? No."

This was an early mistake by the Confederacy, but during the Ryloth episodes in Star Wars the Clone Wars it is reveled that newer droids to not have this flaw and can operated without the command ship.

Also droids don't engage in friendly fire, but clones do here is a clip proving this:https://www.youtube.com.... And the clones accuracy was horrid, even at close range they missed.

Also the clip above brings me to another point, why are clones acting like droids when they are outnumbered 100 to 1? Most Clones only take one or two droids before going down, at this rate the droids are defiantly going to come out on top.

Also the video bring up my next point, durability, a droid can keep fighting if sliced in half, as shown in the video above when the droids stormed the bridge, but the clones in the friendly fire fight, pathetic. Didn't you see the clone who was shot, then couldn't keep fighting and had to be carried away like a baby?

"B. When it really comes down to the fight.
-The arena: the Clones are able to take out a highly guarded outpost with their superior dropships.
-The real test in this movie: the full scale battle; The Clone Army is able to force the Droid Army off of the planet the Separatist forces use to MAKE DROIDS, and many of the droid payloads do not make it off of the planet. That shows the true force of the Clone Army in direct comparison to a much larger force in a battle"

My opponent clearly has not done his research. During the first episode of Star Wars the Clone Wars it is revealed that the droid army out numbers the Clone Army 100-1, also my opponent is forgetting that the Jedi led the clones to this victory, but they lost a huge amount of Jedi and Clones during the battle. During the Battle of Ryloth, the Droid Commander used wild beasts against the Clone Troopers inflicting heavy casualties against them. Also the clone trooper gunships are pathetic when it comes to a battle, this video clip of Landing at Point Rain proves this.:https://www.youtube.com.... Gunships? More like flying death traps.

Also superior gunships? Thats great the Droids have superior cruisers as shown in this, that one battle clip:https://www.youtube.com.... That one battle you just saw was the end of an entire clone unit.

And how about the tanks? The Droids win that one with the Super Tank. The Super Tank's shield was enough to withstand many direct hits from the clones anti- tank cannons, then slaughtered almost the entire Republic force.

"A. The destruction of the Jedi: this is where I justify my Jedi Example. I am putting the scenario of many droids against two Jedi, against the scenario of only a single legion of clones, led against the whole Jedi Temple. Clones for the win if you even have just heard of the Movie."

The clone troopers had the advantage of a surprise when the marched in, the Jedi were not ready for an attack. Also a magna guards (a droid), is more than a match more a Jedi. For example, a Jedi Master known as Sannen was killed by a magna guard during combat. Also those Jedi were fighting early droids models, they had many flaws that later models did not, as the video of the droid attacking the bridge shows. Also 9 clones were killed by an 8 year old. That is just a plain fail. Which side had the bigger accomplishment, the clones who lost 9 men to a kid who just started training, or the droids that killed a Jedi Master and his entire unit? Also if we were to take the statistic that for every one clone, there are a hundred droids, that means that that kid would have had to destroy 900 droids for it to be equivalent to the number of clones that died.

Also this video:https://www.youtube.com..., shows that even the weakest droid model could take out Jedis. Also did you miss the part about a youngling (and 8 year old) killing about ten clone troopers? The clones have the advantage of cover, surprise, and a Jedi General leading them, and then what happens? They die in less than 30 seconds

Also this video shows that even the weakest droids slaughtered Jedi.

"B. The end of the Clone Wars: This example is the pinnacle of my argument and case. The debate you are reading really has been decided a long long time ago in a galaxy far, far away! The clones won the Clone Wars! Its as simple as that! Every battle shown in the movie demonstrates the ability of the clones to dominate over the droids! When pitting the clones against the droids (as this debate does), one just has to look at the actual pitting of clones against droids. there really is no way to get around this!"

The Republic won the cone wars only because Palpatine wanted them to win. Did you forget that he was the Sith Lord who controlled Dooku, who controlled the Droid Army? Did you forget that Palpatine was in control of the Republic? He influenced what would happen in the War, no side won because the were the better side, the Republic side won because Palpatine wanted them to win, so he could tear it apart and form the Empire.

Also another major advantage of droids is they are faster to build. During the Starwars the Clone Wars episode, during the battle, more and more droids were being produced, but clones take over ten year to grow and train.
Paullus

Con

Paullus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
MolecularBird

Pro

MolecularBird forfeited this round.
Paullus

Con

Paullus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
MolecularBird

Pro

My opponent stated that in an earlier round that clones are better than droid because they kill Jedi. I request that any voter searches this video up: Krell vs 501st. This is a video of a rouge Jedi named Krell fighting Clone Troopers.
Paullus

Con

Paullus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
MolecularBird

Pro

MolecularBird forfeited this round.
Paullus

Con

Paullus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by bilbobaggins11 3 years ago
bilbobaggins11
Dorid Army
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
MolecularBirdPaullusTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
MolecularBirdPaullusTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con has broken Pro's rule which states, "No Jedi." Con has used Jedi in his argument which results him in a full 7-point deduction. Also, Pro has given sources to his debate, and gave better arguments.