The Instigator
TK57
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Scorchtheblaze
Con (against)
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The Earlys 50 Rams had the greatest offense in NFL history

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/19/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 395 times Debate No: 81168
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

TK57

Pro

I am here to argue that the early 50s rams, mostly the 50 and 51 rams, had the greatest offense that the NFL has ever seen.
Scorchtheblaze

Con

I will argue as con in this debate as there have been greater offenses in the NFL compared to the 50's Los Angeles Rams.
Debate Round No. 1
TK57

Pro

The 1950 Rams averaged 38.83 PPG which is still an NFL record. They scored over 168% of the league average that year (23.057). They had 2 HOF QBs. And they used both (unlike 80s 49ers or 60 eagles). Keep in mind the 2007 Pats who play in an offense friendly league are a little over 2 ppg behind the 1950 Rams. The 1951 Rams averaged about 32.5 ppg which is good for top 15 of all time. The 1950 Rams set 22 offensive records that year!!! The 50 Rams had 3 All-Pro OLinemen. 2 HOF WRs. 2 HOF QBs as mentioned above. Scored 60+ pts in a game in back to back games (highest combined scored -135- of back to back games in NFL history by a large margin). The 50s rams had 4 on the top 5 scorint offenses in the 1950s (50, 51, 52, and 54). Not only were rules not offense friendly the fields were much worse. They had grass fields and many were converted baseball fields leading to muddy infields at times which is bad for footing. They had a run game too with former Heisman winner Glenn Davis who averaged almosg 8 yards a carry!! They tied the record for most 50+ pt games in a season with 3.
Scorchtheblaze

Con

The first thing I would like to point out about the horribly worded argument that you made, "They had 2 HOF QB's." You tell us that they were in the Hall of Fame but you provide no statistics from the 1950-1951 seasons to prove that they had the best offense that the NFL had. You do offer statistics on point wise by saying that they "averaged 38.83 PPG which, as you said, is still a record even to this day. You later go onto say more about the Hall of Fame offensive members but you still give no statistics to prove your claim, all you say is that they were inducted into the Hall of Fame. You later go on to say that "The 50's Rams had 4 on the top 5 scoring offenses in the 1950's (50,51,52, and 54). While this is impressive, this was the 50's and things changed after that and the Rams were put on a downhill slope as they fell down from the top and were replaced by better offenses.

2007 Patriots - The 2007 Patriots had one of the best offenses of the 2000's as they averaged 36.81 PPG and finished their season 16-0 with a lost Superbowl to the New York Giants. The 2007 Patriots scored a total of 589 points in the entire season compared to the 50's Rams who only managed to score 466, 100 less than the 2007 Patriots. The Patriots undoubtedly have one of the best QB's that the NFL has ever seen, Tom Brady, as he has thrown for 54, 649 yards, 400 touchdowns, etc. compared to the 1950 St. Louis Rams QB, Bob Waterfield who only threw for 11, 849 yards and only had 97 touchdowns in his entire career. Now before you say this, in 1950, Bob Waterfield threw for a total of 11 touchdowns, Tom Brady threw for a total of 50 touchdowns in 2007 which set an NFL record until it was broken by Peyton Manning in the 2013-2014 season.

1998 Vikings - The 1998 Vikings became a huge powerhouse at the ending of the 1990's as they had a 34.75 PPG record, 556 points in the entire season, and they finished with a 15-1 record, their only loss was their division game, NFC divisional championship. The QB at the time, future Hall of Famer Randall Cunningham. In 1998, Cunningham threw for a total of 34 touchdowns compared to Bob Waterfields 11 touchdowns.

I will now turn the debate over to pro for his final round of debating
Debate Round No. 2
TK57

Pro

I was not aware you wanted statistics for each individual player. Norm Van Brocklin finished the season as the 3rd leading passer (2061) and Bob Waterfield finished the season as the 10th leading passer (1540). Van Brocklin finished with 18 passing TDs good for 2nd in the league while Waterfield finished with 11 which was good for 7th in the league. Van Brocklin and Waterfield had the 2 highest passer ratings in the league that year. While they were definitely a pass heavy team, this didnt stop Dick Hoerner from having the 2nd most rushing TDs in the league with 10 and Dan Towler tied for 5th with 6 rushing TDs (despite getting the 5th most carriest on the team). They had 3 Wrs in the top 10 in receiving yards (Fears, Hirsch and Davis). Offensive lineman have no statistics. Tom Fears lead the league with over 1100 receiving yards (given the amount of games and the era this is very impressive) aliong with 7 TDs while Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch who was one of the most elusive runners in NFL history finished the season with 687 receiving yards and 7 TDs. Why did the 1955 Rams drop from production from the teams just shortly before? Well it is simply because they lost players, the 1950 Rams and 1955 Rams had only 3 of the same offensive starters. Also, im talking about the early 50"s Rams not in the later decade so anything after that is irrelevant.
I thank you for choosing the 2007 Patriots. Despite all of the recent rules that heavily favor offenses, they still were over 2 PPG behind the 1950 Rams! And its not like the Rams ran it a lot, they passed a lot despite stricter rules, for example no pass interference. You said the 1950 Rams scored 100 points less than the 2007 Patriots well yes but thats because they played 4 less games. That is why you have to look at average. When considering what they did and add to the fact the era in which they did it beats the 2007 Patriots offensive production. While yes Tom Brady may have had a better season than any singular player on the 1950 Rams, as a combined team effort the 1950 Rams had a better overall offensive year.

As for the 1998 Vikings, first of all Randall Cunningham is in no way a future hall of famer. The 1998 Vikings averaged 34.75 PPG which is almost 4 PPG under the 1950 Rams despite playing in a more offensive friendly era. That right away discludes the 1998 Vikings from contention.

Lastly, you CAN NOT COMPARE STATS STRAIGHT UP FROM ERAS ALMOST 50 YEARS APART. The era has changed so much. Also, the Rams threw a combined 29 TD passes which woulda lead the league had that been 1 person and which is extremely impressive considering the era.

To conclude, the 1950 Rams are the greatest offense the NFL has ever seen. Unforunately, like some of the other best offenses ever like the 2007 Patriots, 1984 Dolphins and 2013 Broncos they were unable to win it all. They came just 2 points away. But just talking about offense, there is no doubt in my mind the 1950 Rams, or early 1950s Rams when generalizing, are the greatest offense the NFL has ever seen and it may be awhile before we seen one better.
Scorchtheblaze

Con

I would like to thank you for the wonderful debate that we have had and I look forward to debating more topics with you.

Thank you for providing the statistics for the individual players and I knew you were going to say something about the year difference between the 1950 Rams, 1998 Vikings, and 2007 Patriots (Broncos fan and I agree the Patriots had the best offense). However, I have one team that is known throughout NFL history as having one of the best offenses and defenses in the entire NFL history, the 1972 Dolphins.

1972 Dolphins - Quite possibly one of the best known offenses in the history of the NFL, the 1972 Dolphins were successfully able to have a perfect 14-0 season and they were able to take home the Superbowl trophy. Led by famous QB Bob Griese, the Dolphins became the only team to have reached this milestone and have kept that record even today. Compared to the Rams who were not able to accomplish this feat (yes I know the Superbowl wasn't around back then), the 1972 Dolphins quite possibly had the best offense in the NFL.

Also, you said I couldn't use stats from the 2007 Patriots which says that I basically can't use stats from future teams which is favoring you in so many different ways.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Scorchtheblaze 1 year ago
Scorchtheblaze
But at the time, they were seen to have had the best offense in the NFL.
Posted by TK57 1 year ago
TK57
I didnt say you couldn't use stats. I said you couldn't use them straight up because of era changes. Also the 72 Dolphins are predominantly known as a defensive team.
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