The Instigator
JR-CreativeGenius
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ZenoCitium
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points

The Earth is Flat... very flat

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
ZenoCitium
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2015 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,266 times Debate No: 68565
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (4)

 

JR-CreativeGenius

Con

I will be arguing the side of CON that no, the Earth is not flat. My opponent, PRO, will argue tht the earth is in fact flat. Let's see who wins. DO not FF. Begin!
ZenoCitium

Pro

Thanks for an interesting debate CreativeGenius.

I am assuming that this round will be for acceptance and that we will provide our arguments in the following round and end with a rebuttal. Good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
JR-CreativeGenius

Con

Here we go. Well, am just going to throw arguments at my opponent rapid fire style. (Deep Breath)
We can see the shadow of the Earth on the moon every luner eclipse! Pow! The force of gravity is roughly the same everywhere on the globe, so the Earth must be spherical! WaPow! The fact that you can't see past the horizon but obviously you can not fall off the side of the Earth. Don't say that you just can't see that far because you can see farther from high up, so if you use math you can use the pythagorean theorem to tell that Earth is round. Bap! The fact that I could take about and go around the world and end up in the same spot where I started. Boom! There are also different time zones so if the Earth were flat how could it be night on one side and day on the other side. Unless you are suggesting that the Earth is millions of lightyears long so that we can not see the sun and then somehow in just one day the sun travels millions of light years to the other side of the Earth. BaBam! Ok, you can go and try to prove your side.
ZenoCitium

Pro

DEFINITIONS:
Flat: (1) having a smooth, level, or even surface (2) not having curves or bumps (3) having a wide, smooth surface and little thickness [2] (4) having less than 1 cm elevation change over 30 square cm, much less than the human perception of flat [5]

INTRODUCTION
It is actually a common misconception that the earth is truly round like a circle. At a remote distance it actually appears like an oblate spheroid. However, as you explore the earth from a nearer vantage point you"ll find that it actually has an extremely irregular surface. The earth is uneven, stony, rugged, pitted and in some places even flat. In many ways this vantage point is more important than from a remote location. This is our vantage point as human beings. We see the pits and the stony places. We may live in or around them. Until the 20th century, no human being had the chance to view the earth remotely. The near vantage point is the view we have every day of our lives and the view that nearly all of our ancestors have had back to the beginning of man.

ESTABLISHMENT OF ARGUMENT
As Pro, I have the burden of proof. My resolution is: The earth is flat, very flat. We are not debating the shape of the earth since "flat" is not a shape. Instead, this resolution pertains to the surface conditions of the earth, as the definition of "flat" indicates. At a near-earth vantage point we can observe the surface conditions and we can see that it consists of some rough areas and some flat areas. I only need to provide a single example of a surface condition that can be described as flat in order to meet the resolution that the earth is flat, in at least one place. I present into evidence: Salar de Uyuni, the world"s largest salt flat. [3] It is located in southwest Bolivia and is 4,086 square miles in area. That is roughly twice the size of the state of Delaware. Over the entire area, the variance in elevation is less than 3 feet 3 inches. Since this is the flattest place on earth, it can be considered extremely flat; very flat. It is actually so incredibly flat that satellites orbiting the earth sometimes calibrate their instruments using this salt flat since it is 5 times better than using an ocean.

CONCLUSION
I have upheld my burden of proof in establishing that the salt flat at Salar de Uyuni (on the earth) is not only flat but very flat. Therefore, The earth is flat, very flat.

Thanks very much Con. I look forward to our rebuttal.

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] http://www.cntraveler.com...
[5] http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org...
Debate Round No. 2
JR-CreativeGenius

Con

JR-CreativeGenius forfeited this round.
ZenoCitium

Pro

My opponent has forfeited the final round and has not provided a rebuttal. Therefore, all of my premises have passed unscathed.

Unfortunately, all of his arguments are irrelevant to my resolution. As I established in my argument, flatness is a measure of the surface condition of the earth and has nothing to do with the earth's 3-dimensional shape, as Con attempted to establish. However, for the sake of rebuttal I will examine his arguments a little further.

1) We can see the shadow of the Earth on the moon every lunar eclipse.

This would only prove the earth is circular in two dimensions. It is perfectly possible for the earth to be a flat disk and produce an identical phenomenon.

2) The force of gravity is roughly the same everywhere on the globe, so the Earth must be spherical!

Actually, the earth's gravitational pull varies depending on where you are on the earth. This further strengthens my premise, that the surface of the earth is irregular. Gravity is proportional to 1/R^2, where R is the distance to the center of the earth. This means that if you climb a mountain, or descend into a valley, gravity's affect on your will increase or diminish respectively. [6]

3) You can't see past the horizon ... you can not fall off the side of the earth.

Flatness does not determine the 3 dimensional shape of an object. Walking around the earth only proves that it is a 3-dimensional object but does not speak to the flatness of that object.

4) You can use Pythagorean theorem

Actually, the Pythagorean theorem is a relationship between the 3 sides of a triangle. It can not determine if something is round (although it could perceivably use to determine flatness). [7]

5) Night and Day

The fact that a night and a day doesn't provide evidence for anything related to this resolution. Even a flat disk that rotated on it's own axis would have a night side and a day side.

Very good attempt and thanks for the debate.

[6] http://curious.astro.cornell.edu...
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ZenoCitium 1 year ago
ZenoCitium
I'm just defending my resolution.

Actually, what happened here is called a noob-snipe. The resolution was created by JR. He was being a smartie pants and trying to post an impossible resolution to defend.
Posted by Turtlebro 1 year ago
Turtlebro
Hypothetically im saying. I'm so confused what your point is. You know what, forget it.
Posted by ZenoCitium 1 year ago
ZenoCitium
You'd end up in a heap in the valley below. Something that is not possible when you stroll along a sphere.

Water can't fall off the earth due to gravity.
Posted by Turtlebro 1 year ago
Turtlebro
im not sure I see your point. The Grand Canyon has another side to it. And if I kept walking those 21 yards and I didn't stop, I would eventually end up at the same place. And also, shouldn't all water on the earth fall off if there was really an end to the earth?
Posted by ZenoCitium 1 year ago
ZenoCitium
A photo is a 2D image - can you you tell that the object has three dimensions?

Are you sure you can't fall off the edge? How about you take a little stroll at the Grand Canyon. When you're 20 yards from the edge of the canyon start walking and don't stop until you've walked 21 yards.
Posted by Turtlebro 1 year ago
Turtlebro
Did we really get any evidence the earth is flat besides that there is one flat place on the face of the earth? Explain satellites photos taken that show the world is sphere, explain why you can fly around the world and not fall of the edge, and explain why I can see a horizon line.
Posted by ZenoCitium 2 years ago
ZenoCitium
No problem.
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
I forgot to ask you two whether you were okay with comments. Some debaters are okay with it, others are not.
Posted by ZenoCitium 2 years ago
ZenoCitium
PS:

Never do what jethro and UndeniableReality did below. Once a debate starts, refrain from making comments that could help or hinder either side.
Posted by ZenoCitium 2 years ago
ZenoCitium
Thanks JR.

I would not have accepted the debate if I had seen how old you were first. I think you are the youngest member I've found on this site so far. Kudos to you for finding a hobby that's productive!

Sometimes you learn the most from a loss. I know I learned quite a lot when I had my first loss.

Here's a few quick pointers:

- Check out http://www.debate.org...

- Try not to forfeit if you can help it. It will usually cost conduct points at least and often all available points. It also greatly weakens your position. Consider this debate, since you forfeited, you lost the chance to provide a rebuttal. This was key since I was Pro, I had the affirmative (made the claim) so I had the burden of proof. This means that you could win if you had just proved all of my arguments incorrect during your rebuttal. Most debate have more than 1 rebuttal round, so giving up your only chance to rebut cost you big-time.

- I usually like debates that have the maximum time allotment (3 days). This helps navigate around your normal commitments with school/work/etc. Also, it keeps you from feeling rushed. I actually wrote my opening argument before you posted yours to get ahead of the clock. With only 24 hrs, if you were to post during the middle of the day, I'd only have 1 night to respond since I'm not available during the day.

- Review your argument before you post for grammar and spelling. Don't let your opponent get an easy point for something so simple.

Good luck with future debates.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
JR-CreativeGeniusZenoCitiumTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Hylian_3000 2 years ago
Hylian_3000
JR-CreativeGeniusZenoCitiumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
JR-CreativeGeniusZenoCitiumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
JR-CreativeGeniusZenoCitiumTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF