The Instigator
Nimbus328
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Passionate
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points

The Earth was Created for Man

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Nimbus328
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/22/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,560 times Debate No: 31552
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Nimbus328

Con

I intend to prove that the conditions of the earth are the result of random chance, not divine plan.
Passionate

Pro

I Accept the debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Nimbus328

Con

My position assumes the non-existance of god(s).

My position assumes that the Big Bang is scientific fact, as is Evolution.

The core problem with the Pro position is it assumes the centricity of the earth in "God's plan" for the universe. This is a view from antiquity which has been put aside by sience via Heliocentrism. Later it was discovered that the sun was in a galaxy called the Milky Way, and was not in the center of this galaxy. We have no reason to believe that the Milky Way galaxy is in the center of the universe.

What is the point of the universe. From my opponent's position, there is no reason for the universe.

The mere existance of the Milky Way galay, and even more so, the 100 billion galaxies in the entire Universe, is a strong argumet against God's intervention. Why would he create these?

From the standpoint of science, each star is simply a chance for life to rise up out of the ocean. The more times you play the lottery, the more likely you are to win.

The eart is in what is known as the Goldilox Zone. The moon creates tides, which allowed ocean-dwelling cells to come to land. Very important.

******************

There is strong evidence from NASA's WAMP mission of 2001 "determined the universe to be 13.77 billion years old to within a half percent.[1]" This is due to measuring the levels of Cosmic Background Radiation[1]. The three most highly cited physics and astronomy papers published in the new millennium are WMAP scientific papers--- reflecting WMAP's enormous impact[1].

The position of the conservative Christian is Young Earth Creationism. "Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they hold the creationist view that 'God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years'[3]"

This is because there is no record of a god for billions of years before recorded history. Key point to refute: what was God doing in these billions of years, and why were humans not involved?

**************

Look at the history of the earth.

Solar System formation
"The proto-Earth grew by accretion until its interior was hot enough to melt the heavy, siderophile metals. Having higher densities than the silicates, these metals sank. This so-called iron catastrophe resulted in the separation of a primitive mantle and a (metallic) core only 10 million years after the Earth began to form, producing the layered structure of Earth and setting up the formation of Earth's magnetic field.[4]"

Formation of the Moon
The giant impact hypothesis states that the Moon was formed out of the debris left over from a collision between the Earth and a body the size of Mars, approximately 4.5 Gya (four and a half billion years ago). The colliding body is sometimes called Theia, for the mythical Greek Titan who was the mother of Selene, the goddess of the Moon[5]"

Formation of the continents
"The initial crust, formed when the Earth's surface first solidified, totally disappeared from a combination of this fast Hadean plate tectonics and the intense impacts of the Late Heavy Bombardment[4]." "The oldest rocks on Earth are found in the North American craton of Canada. They are tonalites from about 4.0 Ga. They show traces of metamorphism by high temperature, but also sedimentary grains that have been rounded by erosion during transport by water, showing rivers and seas existed then"

Why all this hullablo? Why couldn't God have simply created the earth in six days and be done with it?

[1] http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov...
[2] http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Passionate

Pro

I Apologize for being Late as was caught up with some Official Work :)))

I will Refute Con Arguments one by one, His Points are put in between Double forward slash (//) and my reply to that are in Bold Letters.


Con Arguments are as follows:

//My position assumes the non-existence of god(s).My position assumes that the Big Bang is scientific fact, as is Evolution.//

Associating Big Bang theory with theory of evolution will not enhance credibility of Evolution theory; it will raise doubts on the Big Bang theory, instead.



//The core problem with the Pro position is it assumes the centricity of the earth in "God's plan" for the universe. This is ............center of the universe.//

My opponent is actually not MY opponent; he is opposing something else, which I myself don’t stand for. Never have I said that earth is central to the entire universe! In fact, Islam says, for God, this world is not even as significant as a mosquito’s wing!



//What is the point of the universe? From my opponent's position, there is no reason for the universe.The mere existance of the Milky Way galay, and even more so, the 100 billion galaxies in the entire Universe, is a strong argumet against God's intervention. Why would he create these?//

My dear friend is terribly mistaken due to his lack of awareness of Islamic Concepts. Concluding that the purpose of the Universe DOESN’T EXIST because WE DON’T KNOW it, is a logical fallacy called Ad Ignorantium.



//From the standpoint of science, each star is simply a chance for life to rise up out of the ocean. The more times you play the lottery, the more likely you are to win.The eart is in what is known as the Goldilox Zone. The moon creates tides, which allowed ocean-dwelling cells to come to land. Very important.

There is strong evidence from NASA's WAMP mission of 2001 "determined the universe to be 13.77 billion years old to within a half percent.[1]" This is due to measuring the levels of Cosmic Background Radiation[1]. The three most highly cited physics and astronomy papers published in the new millennium are WMAP scientific papers--- reflecting WMAP's enormous impact[1].//

This entire discussion is of no consequence because it doesn’t disprove God’s existence.



//The position of the conservative Christian is Young Earth Creationism. "Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they hold the creationist view that 'God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years'[3]"//

Like the Christian myth of THEYOUNG EARTH, even the atheists believe in myths like THE YOUNG GOD concept! They are clueless, how can such an old universe be created by a God who is presumed to be very young



//This is because there is no record of a god for billions of years before recorded history. Key point to refute: what was God doing in these billions of years, and why were humans not involved?//

Ha-ha. This is funny! Because you can’t guess or imagine what God could be doing over so many billions of years, you rule out the possibility of existence of God. This is definitely ignorance!



//Look at the history of the earth.

Solar System formation"The proto-Earth grew by accretion until its interior was hot enough to melt the heavy, siderophile metals. Having higher densities than the ........................ magnetic field.[4]"//

//Formation of the MoonThe giant impact hypothesis states that the Moon was formed out of the debris left over from a collision between the Earth and a ........................ the goddess of the Moon[5]"//

//Formation of the continents"The initial crust, formed when the Earth's surface first solidified, totally disappeared from a combination of this fast Hadean plate tectonics and the intense impacts of the Late Heavy Bombardment[4]." ............ seas existed then"//

This is typical ignorant and presumptive way of the atheists. They speak about so called ‘process’ of creation based on some highly imaginative sci-fi theories and conclude, “We have understood the process of creation… so God doesn’t exist!” They don’t realise the fact that understanding HOW God ‘might have’ created the universe doesn’t eliminate God’s role.



//Why all this hullablo? Why couldn't God have simply created the earth in six days and be done with it?//


It’s easy to ask, “Why didn’t God create the Universe in a simpler manner?” after understanding how complicated the universe is. The same smartness would have helped them in asking, “Why didn’t God create the Universe in a complex manner?” if they understood that the Universe is created in a simple manner. Not only atheism, any theory will not stand on the basis of opportunistic questions. Instead, educated people will respect some serious research and evidence which can convince them that God doesn’t exist. However, that was never possible nor will it ever be possible to scientifically prove that God doesn’t exist.



It’s wrong to presume that this world is one successful combination out of millions of unsuccessful combinations around the universe. In reality, each and every atom in the universe is a successful DESIGNED creation and each one bear’s witness that God exists!



Ever observed an atom? Why do the electrons go round and round the orbits? Because they are pulled by positive charge? Why don’t they jump into the nucleus if there’s so much of attraction? Because of centrifugal force? Why don’t they jump out of the atom if they are at such high speeds? That’s due to a delicate and accurate balance between pull and centrifugal forces? How come each electron in every atom balanced itself with such a precision without any external intelligent agency? How come each and every atom is maintaining that accurate balance since billions of years? How come the billions to the power of billions to the power of billions number of atoms are meticulously following this structure without God creating them and controlling them? Can so many billions of successful atoms be a mere CHANCE? Never! “Each atom bears witness that God exists” God has created them, God is controlling them and God can destroy all of them the moment He decides to do it. “Everything in the heavens and earth praises God.” (Quran 61:1)



The main problem with those who deny God is that they soup up NOTHING. Let me explain it. When the atheists are asked what was before Big Bang? They answer “nothing”. When they are asked, can something come out of nothing? They get a checkmate. The question is so disturbing for them, that leading academic atheist Professor Krauss has written a book on the subject, proving vacuum is nothing. He forgot to inform that vacuum has plethora of charges and energy, and VACUUM IS NOT NOTHING.



In The Mysterious Universe, the English physicist Sir James Jeans describes the flawless order in the cosmos:
A scientific study of the universe has suggested a conclusion, which may be summed up ... in the statement that the universe appears to have been designed by a pure mathematician.1This MATHEMATICIAN IS NO OTHER THAN GOD ALMIGHTY.
1(Sir James Jeans, The Mysterious Universe, New York: Macmillan Co., 1932/ Cambridge, England: University Press, 1932, p. 140)



Albert Einstein said, "The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible." He meant that, unlike our homes on a bad day, the universe is not just a conglomeration of objects each going its own way. Everything in the universe follows laws, without exception.



All the atheists need to stop feeling arrogance towards God and start feeling humble and humiliated because in spite of so much of ‘scientific advancement’ all the scientists in the world and all the labs in the world together CAN’T CREATE EVEN A SINGLE ATOM OUT OF NOTHING! Leave alone creating an atom they can’t even ASSEMBLE an atom by taking a proton from one atom, neutron from another and an electron from a third atom and putting them in action! Isn’t it SHAMEFUL?!







Debate Round No. 2
Nimbus328

Con

>>was caught up with some Official Work

Unofficial work is usually illegal. I am glad you were not participating in unofficial work.

If my opponent disagrees with the prevailing scientific knowledge of our day, that is your concern.

My opponent was assumed Christian up until this point. My opponent is now declared Muslim.

>>My opponent is actually not MY opponent; he is opposing something else, which I myself don"t stand for. Never have I said that earth is central to the entire universe! In fact, Islam says, for God, this world is not even as significant as a mosquito"s wing!

This argument supports my position.

//From the standpoint of science, each star is simply a chance for life to rise up out of the ocean. The more times you play the lottery, the more likely you are to win.//

>>This entire discussion is of no consequence...

On the contrary, the more suns, the more planets, the more chances to win the lottery of life. The more chances, the more likely there is to be life. Core argument.

>>because it doesn"t disprove God"s existence

Not the topic of debate.

//This is because there is no record of a god for billions of years before recorded history. Key point to refute: what was God doing in these billions of years, and why were humans not involved?//

>>Ha-ha. This is funny! Because you can"t guess or imagine what God could be doing over so many billions of years, you rule out the possibility of existence of God. This is definitely ignorance!

Humans are hardly special in the grand scheme of things. This comment from my opponent supports my argument.

//Why all this hullablo? Why couldn't God have simply created the earth in six days and be done with it?//

>>It"s wrong to presume that this world is one successful combination out of millions of unsuccessful combinations around the universe. In reality, each and every atom in the universe is a successful DESIGNED creation and each one bear"s witness that God exists!

Expanding on my argument: the more suns, the more planets, the more chances to win the lottery of life. The more chances, the more likely there is to be life.

What if there is another planet with sentient life. Did the profit go to that as well? The Qua'rn is called God's Word. It is recited verbatim in Muslim culture, in the original language.

If God's Word coexists with God, then Muhammad would be required to go to that planet as well.

Fifty planets, fifty Muhammads, the idea boggles the mind.

Core argument.

Further. "Translation of the Qur'an has always been a problematic and difficult issue in Islamic theology. Since Muslims revere the Qur'an as miraculous and inimitable (i'jaz al-Qur'an), they argue that the Qur'anic text cannot be reproduced in another language or form."[1]

What if the Qur'an was lost? What if on another planet, they spoke Portuguese? Then the Qur'an would have no chance to be duplicated in its present form.

>>In reality, each and every atom in the universe is a successful DESIGNED creation and each one bear"s witness that God exists!

A witness is expected to give testimony. God should have given Muhammad a microscope.

Note that there is more scientific knowledge in a 4th grade text book than there is in the holy writings.

>>Ever observed an atom? Why do the electrons go round and round the orbits?

That's the Bohr model[2] from 1913 and is found in elementary textbooks because of its easy understandability. It was replaced by the Atomic Orbital[3] model in Quantum Phisycs.

Conversation regarding the Atom must include the wave-particle duality and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle[4]

Key point: Why is is called the Bohr model? Because Bohr created it. Why isn't it called the God model? Because God didn't create it. Same with Heisenberg.

There is only one item in Atomic Theory called the God Particle, and this is a misnomer hotly contested by scientists.[5] It's really the Higgs boson and has nothing to do with God.

>>Because they are pulled by positive charge? Why don"t they jump into the nucleus if there"s so much of attraction?

We are not debating the atom. There is a lot of ignorance in your argument though. "Why doesn't the electron fall into the nucleus?"[6]

>>Because of centrifugal force?

No.

>>Why don"t they jump out of the atom if they are at such high speeds? That"s due to a delicate and accurate balance between pull and centrifugal forces?

No.

>>How come each electron in every atom balanced itself with such a precision without any external intelligent agency?

Electrical current is the transfer of electrons through unstable atoms, called a Conductor.[7]

The mere existence of lightning refutes your point.

>>God can destroy all of them the moment He decides to do it.

Conservation of Mass.[8]

>>"Everything in the heavens and earth praises God." (Quran 61:1)

Not really. I don't, anyway.

>>The main problem with those who deny God is that they soup up NOTHING.

Science souped up a car. Don't knock it.

Muhammad used a hole in the ground to defaecate. Would you like to join him.

>>Let me explain it. When the atheists are asked what was before Big Bang? They answer "nothing".

Not really. Unknown is a better answer, and any answer would be challenging to test. That's what the Large Hadron Collider[9] by CERN is studying now. 10,000 scientists and $9bn spent.

How much was spent in your Mosque this past year. Millions? Billions? A lot of people with a lot of money and a lot of curiosity are betting on the LHC. Also see LHC's ALICE[10] and LHC's LHCb[11].

>>When they are asked, can something come out of nothing? They get a checkmate.

Nope. They get LHCb.

>>Professor Krauss

The book has received mixed reviews, probably due to the audience of laymen. Note that Krauss is a pillar in the scientific community.

>> Sir James Jeans, The Mysterious Universe
(c) 1932?!???? Are you kidding me?

Stars collide on a cosmic scale every day.

>>Albert Einstein said, "The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible."

Misquoted but the spirit is correct. Core rebuttal: Einstein said at the start of the book that Physicists are poor philosophers.[12]

>>All the atheists need to stop feeling arrogance towards God

Santa and Spiderman get equal respect, actually.

>>and start feeling humble and humiliated because in spite of so much of "scientific advancement"

You claim that science has not advanced? You leave me speechless, sir/ma'am.

>>all the scientists in the world and all the labs in the world together CAN"T CREATE EVEN A SINGLE ATOM OUT OF NOTHING!

Molecules are the next level up from atoms, and laymen don't like it when scientists modify molecules.[12] They do that every day.

>>they can"t even ASSEMBLE an atom by taking a proton from one atom, neutron from another and an electron from a third atom and putting them in action! Isn"t it SHAMEFUL?!

Taking atoms apart is easy.[13] Putting them together is hard.[14] Would you be ashamed if you could not push an elephant up a hill, even if it was on a cart?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://www.chem1.com...
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[8] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[9] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[10] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[11] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[12] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[13] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[14] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Passionate

Pro


//Unofficial work is usually illegal. I am glad you were not participating in unofficial work. //

Illegal..???
Dude take a chill bill

//If my opponent disagrees with the prevailing scientific knowledge of our day, that is your concern.//

Many recent scientific facts were in utter disagreement with today's scientific truths .

//My opponent was assumed Christian up until this point. My opponent is now declared Muslim.//

Assuming me as a Christian is your fault you should have done some homework before blindly challenging me.

>>My opponent is actually not MY opponent; he is opposing something else, which I myself don"t stand for. Never have I said that......

This argument supports my position.//

Mine too

//From the standpoint of science, each star is simply a chance for life to rise up out of the ocean. The more times you play the lottery, the more likely you are to win.//

Don’t rely on Chances; life can only exist if certain essential conditions and elements are present. The only model of life that is based on scientific criteria is that of carbon-based life and scientists are in agreement that there is no other form of life to be found anywhere elsewhere in the universe.

//Humans are hardly special in the grand scheme of things. This comment from my opponent supports my argument.//

Just Saying “this supports my argument” doesn’t really supports it.

//Expanding on my argument: the more suns, the more planets, the more chances to win the lottery of life. The more chances, the more likely there is to be life. //

Con only talks about chances and ignores reality all together.

//What if there is another planet with sentient life. //

Another Stupid Assumption, come out of the fantasy world Dude,

//Did the profit go to that as well? //

No he didn’t.

//The Qur’an is called God's Word. It is recited verbatim in Muslim culture, in the original language.//

Con said the Truth, thumps up for that.

//If God's Word coexists with God, then Muhammad would be required to go to that planet as well.//

My Sincere Advice to you: Stop Imagining

//Fifty planets, fifty Muhammads, the idea boggles the mind.//

Ahaaa!!! Take my advice above, it will work for sure. (Your mind will stop Boggling again)



//Further. "Translation of the Qur'an has always been a problematic and difficult issue in Islamic theology. Since Muslims revere the Qur'an as miraculous and inimitable ............................."[1]//

This is because the miraculous nature of the Arabic Language, that’s the truth and I am damn sure it will bother you a lot as you are against the truth, reality. (I.e. Stupid Evolution)

//What if the Qur'an was lost? What if on another planet, they spoke Portuguese? ........//

It will never get Lost. So don’t worry much about it. And I don’t think there is a chance for it as I don’t rely on chances
Con arguments are full of imagination only

//Note that there is more scientific knowledge in a 4th grade text book than there is in the holy writings.//

I didn’t claim holy writings have more scientific knowledge or do you have already imagined this question by me in your Boggled mind.

//Key point: Why is is called the Bohr model? Because Bohr created it. Why isn't it called the God model? Because God didn't create it.Same with Heisenberg. //

Founding something doesn’t make someone the creator of that. Did he create Atom??
Who created Niels Bohr by the way, without Doubt answer is Almighty GOD or does he came automatically from an Explosion.


//Science souped up a car. Don't knock it. //

No, it’s not science but rather human being made the car

//Muhammad used a hole in the ground to defecate. Would you like to join him.//

This shows your Frustration...

“When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish”. (21:8)

//Not really. Unknown is a better answer, and any answer would be challenging to test. That's what the Large Hadron Collider[9]....... //

People are waiting for LHC’s findings, let us wait, whatever they will find will make them believe in GOD. Because that’s the truth. But some people never accept truth because they Don’t like it.

//How much was spent in your Mosque this past year. Millions?Billions?//

Sorry I didn’t Count

//A lot of people with a lot of money and a lot of curiosity are betting on the LHC. Also see LHC's ALICE[10] and LHC's LHCb[11].//

Oh ya....People Do waste their money on lot of things.


//Stars collide on a cosmic scale every day.//

So what’s the Big deal anyway


//Santa and Spiderman get equal respect, actually.//

Santa and Spiderman, Again Childish reply, you still in the fantasy land, knock knock...... come out!!! Dude will show you some real stuff


//You claim that science has not advanced? You leave me speechless, sir/ma'am.//

Where did I claim that...; if you were truthful you would have provided the Proof? But you can’t as you believe in Falsehood. (Evolution Stupid theory)


//Molecules are the next level up from atoms, and laymen don't like it when scientists modify molecules.[12] They do that every day.//

Just changing the words doesn’t work Bro, People are intelligent and are not living in Fantasy world


//Would you be ashamed if you could not push an elephant up a hill, even if it was on a cart?//

If i come up with stupid reasons after seeing other’s easily pushing the elephant down to the hill, then it is really shameful!!!!!

The Whole Arguments of Con is mainly based on the Question “WHY”
Even if answer is given again a new WHY will pop up, for some people it’s an ongoing Process.

Con argued that Why couldn't God have simply created the earth in six days and be done with it?

Indeed it is possible for God to create the heavens and the earth in a shorter period of time, say in six hours. But then your question would be: why doesn't God create them in a still shorter time?

God has His own reason for choosing a particular way of creation or for taking a particular duration for creation; and we humans have no way of knowing it, unless God Himself reveals it to us.

But we can make a scientific study of the origin of the universe using our God-given analytical skills to figure out the logic behind it, as far as we can. But such an enterprise, I suppose, is quite beyond us in this context.

Earth has been decorated in a lot of detail for living things to survive. Allah is the One Who has given earth all these details. Otherwise none of us would have been able to live, neither you, nor your parents, or indeed any of your friends would have been here.

Many events on earth make it possible for us to live. If even only one of these events doesn't take place, no living thing would be left on earth. So, is it possible that these thousands of events have come together spontaneously and formed such a place as earth? Of course not. Not even one of these events could happen by chance. Allah has created earth for human beings. And, because of this, earth is the most suitable place for us.

Unlike the other 63 major planets and satellites in our solar system, the planet Earth is the only one possessing an atmosphere, an ambient temperature, and a surface suitable for life. Although liquid water, a fundamental requirement for life, is found nowhere else in the solar system, three-fourths of the Earth's surface is covered with it.

Many completely different factors such as the distance between Earth and Sun, the planet's rotational speed, the inclination of its axes, and the geographical features of the surface all combine to ensure that our world is heated in just the right way that life needs and that this heat is adequately distributed.

Even Mars, the only other planet in the solar system to come close to resembling the Earth physically, is nothing but an arid, lifeless ball of rock.

Many Planets’ Like Pluto, Neptune, Uranus, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury…etc None of this will support Life; each of them is lifeless ball of gas, ice, or rock


Sincere Advice to Con : THE PERFECT DESIGN IN UNIVERSE IS NOT BY CHANCE, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO SAY IT HAPPENED BY CHANCE.









Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by KingDebater 4 years ago
KingDebater
Nimbus328PassionateTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:20 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments weren't particularly good on either side, but Con actually used sources so sources to Con.
Vote Placed by Gondun 4 years ago
Gondun
Nimbus328PassionateTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: The con had a lot of nice information and science about how there are millions of other planets and such, but his argument basically came down to the earth was not created for man because there are other possible places where life could be in the universe. This does not show why earth wasn't created for man, but pro's arguments did. Con was the only one that used evidence, so he got that one.