The Instigator
Center_for_Rationality
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
Riza_Rosette
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim is a better RPG than Dragon Age: Origins

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Center_for_Rationality
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/23/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,653 times Debate No: 28584
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (4)

 

Center_for_Rationality

Con

Resolution: The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim is a better RPG than Dragon Age: Origins
No semantics
No intentional fallacies
No ad hom
Dropped arguments are considered concessions
Affirmative posts in first round :)
RPG=Role-playing game
Riza_Rosette

Pro

Hi! First off, I'd like to thank my opponent for the interesting debate topic. Have fun!

THE ELDER SCROLLS: SKYRIM vs. DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS

1. Superior Graphics.
I don’t really think I need to thoroughly explain how and why the graphics in Skyrim are superior to those of the first Dragon Age game. Moving on.

2 and 3. Non-linear Storyline, and Random Battles.
Skyrim starts the player out with a main quest, yes, but once you escape Helgen, the player can ignore that quest indefinitely with minimal repercussions.

Dragon Age, however, allows the player to see the Darkspawn Invasion as it progresses over time and throughout the game. As the game progresses, and as you waste time, for instance, wooing Alistair, the Dark Spawn Invasion progressively worsens. As this happens, random battles become so irritatingly frequent that they almost force the player to complete the quest (and therefore, end the game.)


4. Open World.
Skyrim gives the player an open world to run around in.

Dragon Age: Origins, in contrast, gives you the option to fast travel to a certain number of “rooms”. There are no open plains to get lost in, no caves in which to spelunk, and Dragon Age lacks the feeling of distance between Flemmeth’s hut and the Brecilian Forest- save, perhaps, for the random battles mentioned in point 2.

In Skyrim, however, you can walk the distance between Riften and Markarth if you so choose. Most probably don’t, but it is nice to have the option.

5. Increased Control over your Character’s Level(s)
Upon gaining enough experience in Skyrim, the ancient nords of the frozen wastes will promt you to Level Up (with some spiffy chanting and a glowy text). Should you ignore this promt, it will simply appear, almost randomly, in the upper left corner of the screen. Beyond this, however, the game will not force you to level up or choose perks or anything of the sort.

Dragon Age, however, levels you up automatically. Some may see this as more convenient, but I see it as somewhat annoying.

This wraps up my round. I look forward to Con’s responses : )

Debate Round No. 1
Center_for_Rationality

Con

The Absolute Question.
This debate hinges on what it means to be a good role-playing game, while many of my opponents points are quite relevant to what makes a good video game, only two of his points really constitute what makes a good role-playing game, in fact I am able to build my case by adding to what my opponent has said along with adding some more relevant points.
I will be defending two points of contention:
1.There are good reasons to think that Dragon Age Origins is a better RPG than Skyrim
2.There are no comparably good reasons to think that Skyrim is a better RPG than Dragon Age Origins
(I am doing my best to avoid spoilers, sorry if I reveal anything)
1. Superior Graphics
I would to mention to my opponent while video games have popularized role-playing games and have made them easier to play anytime people wish to, it was not in the conception of role-playing, the quintessential role-playing game is Dungeons and Dragons and while the graphics are more realistic in that they portray reality more effectively, it has come at a cost of making less unique monsters(if Pro wishes more evidence of this, simply look at the quality and complexity of Morrowind's monsters by comparison), for example, Darkspawn are not based on anything specific they are evil creatures that are twisted by the Blight this in turn makes them less humanoid-like but this isn't a disadvantage, this is a advantage, it makes them less susceptible to lose the fantasy aspect. The improvement of graphics becomes necessary only when people want to actually buy the game as a video game but it really doesn't effect role-playing capability therefore graphics are irrelevant to actual role-playing games.
2.Linear? I beg to differ
My opponent is making a absolutely false statement when she says Skyrim is non-linear and Dragon Age is by comparison. In Skyrim, after getting out of Helgen, it may be true you can avoid the main quest if you wish, but what would be the point? If you never do the main questline, you never see a dragon hence discovering dragon words which is a main point of the game, becomes trivial. Furthermore, if you do not complete attempt to do part of the main questline you end up losing tons of quests in the process that were not apart of the main questline if you are not a certain class. For example, in order to get into the College of Winterhold you need to cast a apprentice level spell or demonstrate your Th'uum(dragon shout). However, if you happen to be a non-mage without doing the main questline good luck getting that(admittedly fun) questline. Furthermore, Dragon Age is not at all linear in the sense my opponent supposes. The Darkspawn invasion is progressive in the sense in progresses WITH QUESTS, so theoretically(and in reality 99% of the time), one ends up doing what they want before the Darkspawn get anywhere. The game allows the player to achieve relationships while also showing that certain things are bound to happen which is a prime aspect of role-playing game, circumstances beyond ones control happen all the time. Simply put this is a simple illustration, as almost all RPGs are, a example of fatalism.
3.Open World/Random Battles
My opponent makes a definite good point, open world seems to be a key aspect of role-playing games. The problem with this is Skyrim isn't truly a open world. It really is a essentially collection of rooms just like Dragon Age. You see while it seems like Skyrim is open, think about this, when was the last time you jumped Whiteruns wall? All cities are interior cells not exterior cells, with a couple of small exceptions(towns). Furthermore, Skyrim makes it so insanely easy to be lazy regarding fast travel it removes the exploration feature in all practical terms. There are many ways to fast travel in simple non-fast travel terms, like using the carriage. Or another way would be to get on a horse, my opponent might say its still traveling and exploration but on a horse you can run away from everything and nothing harms you really. It is fast traveling effectively slowly. Dragon Age instead makes fast-traveling mandatory BUT at least the Random Battles are conceivable and are often important to the storyline, Dragon Age almost never has a pointless random encounter. All the Random battles serve as helper to the storyline.
4.Increased Control over Levels(facepalm)
You will gain experience all you want but you never level up automatically, if my opponent means you advance to the next level from the character sheet then I concede this point but SKYRIM DOES THE SAME THING. To illustrate the example I will use the smithing "skill". I can go to Whiterun and use the smith stuff to level fifteen times(exaggeration) and I may choose not to level. But what's the point? I still have enough experience points to level. With regards to Dragon Age, there is a option to auto level, but its irrelevant because you have to actively to choose to do it. Furthermore, choosing not to get your talents is rather pointless anyway. While I am on the this point, I would like to point out that leveling in Dragon Age gives you much more choice, I can choose what to put attributes in, what skills I want to have( every 2 to 3 levels), and spells/talents which are much more prominent in gameplay. In fact some of skills are counter intuitive, the smith skill is a excellent example of this, because the creatures are leveled, if you use smithing too much the game punishes you by killing you off with harder creature then necessary, and considering this is for using the skills it is not helpful.
1. My singular point of contention
Dragon Age has many characteristics that make it superior to Skyrim. But I will summarize it as a argument.
If Dragon Age gives you more choices, it is a better RPG than Skyrim
Dragon Age gives you more choices
Therefore Dragon Age is a better RPG than Skyrim
The first premise seems obvious, aside from fantasy, the major point of RPG's is the choices made and their effects, everything else is secondary. In fact, the whole reason people play RPG's is because they are looking for a experience in someone elses shoes. The major point of doing that is to make choices in the person's body. There is distinction that needs to be made first, between major and minor choices. Major choices have a effect on the character and the world, minor have no real effect. Skyrim seems to be riddled with minor choices but not really major ones, the whole game is relatively linear. When was the last time you persuaded Mercer Frey to step down willingly? I cannot remember, oh wait.. Furthermore, have you ever prevented the death of half of your friends in the Dark Brotherhood? Me either. The point is that the game makes you make choices in bulk and if you do not choose to do something then the consequences are minimal. Here's what I mean, you can exterminate the Dark Brotherhood or join them but after that the next choice is whether or not to kill Cicero which has zero effect whatsoever. Dragon Age is much different, you can even go into a Dalish girls tent without pissing someone off(sorry Leliana:) ). And the fact is that all choices have some effect on the world around you in Dragon Age. Even the choice to do summoning in the Mages tower has some effect. The point of RPG's is to show choices matter and Dragon Age illustrates this much more elegantly than Skyrim. Skyrim is the illusion of choice, Dragon Age is the actual choice or at least what constitutes real choice in the real world. Another aspect is the flavor and uniqueness of NPCS/companions but we will get into that later.
Conclusion
The origin stories, the immense amount of choice, uniqueness in NPCS and the commitment to true role-playing makes Skyrim look poor in comparison.
"After all, no one wants to hear 'Willy toiled for many a year to perfect the curious mechanisms that would send a sharpened spike up the arse of the unwary intruder." Brother Genitivi
Riza_Rosette

Pro

“[…] while many of my opponents points are quite relevant to what makes a good video game, only two of his points really constitute what makes a good role-playing game, in fact I am able to build my case by adding to what my opponent has said along with adding some more relevant points.”

This makes no sense. It goes without saying, that if I can show that Skyrim is a better game than Dragon Age, then I have also implicitly proven that it’s a better RPG (because RPGs are merely a subset of video games).


For instance, you could not logically say Shogi is a better game than Chess but not a better board game. Nor could you say apples are a healthier food than strawberries, but not a healthier fruit.


Therefore, every point I’ve made in my previous round is completely relevant and every attempt my opponent has just made to claim otherwise is erroneous.


1. Superior Graphics, Creatures, and Fantasy Elements in RPGs.


Note my opponent conceded Skyrim has better graphics than Dragon Age. He only tries to say this is irrelevant, but as explained previously, every point for Skyrim’s superiority is a relevant one.


“Darkspawn are not based on anything specific they are evil creatures that are twisted by the Blight this in turn makes them less humanoid-like but this isn't a disadvantage, this is a advantage, it makes them less susceptible to lose the fantasy aspect.”

My opponent’s grammar is terrible, but I think my opponent is saying that Dragon Age’s Darkspawn are more interesting and/or fantasty-ish as enemies because they aren’t based on anything in reality, whereas Skyrim pits the player against creatures the player is already familiar with (for instance, wolves and mammoths). This is erroneous three-fold:

1) Skyrim does pit you up against creative creatures. Yes, there are wolves and mammoths and bears and cute little bunnies, but then there are also whisp mothers, ice wraiths, draughrs, falmar, chaurusses, etc.


2) A game doesn’t have to be western-fantasy-themed to be an RPG. My opponent’s preference of fantasy-based worlds and enemies is totally irrelevant. Skyrim could have taken place in 1983 New York and as long it retained core RPG elements (such as gaining experience and leveling up), then it would still be an RPG. Therefore, his claim of “losing the fantasty aspect” is entirely irrelevant.


3) Dragon Age’s enemies are a one-hit wonder. The game pits you up against darkspawn, and pretty much nothing else ever. This lack of variety is clearly inferior to Skyrim’s armada of enemies (as mentioned in point 1)


2.Linear?

“[…] when she says Skyrim is non-linear and Dragon Age is by comparison. In Skyrim, after getting out of Helgen, it may be true you can avoid the main quest if you wish, but what would be the point?”


The point in any and every video game is to entertain the player. Skyrim has so much replay value, that it’s fairly common for players to restart files (I’ve had at least 12) and it’s nice to sometimes save the main quest for last, or even skip it altogether. And there is nothing at all wrong with that.
And if I am so intent on slaying dragons and obtaining words of power, then all it takes is two quests. You only have to do two missions, and then you never have to worry about the main quest ever again.

“Furthermore, if you do not complete attempt to do part of the main questline you end up losing tons of quests in the process that were not apart of the main questline if you are not a certain class. For example, in order to get into the College of Winterhold you need to cast a apprentice level spell or demonstrate your Th'uum(dragon shout).”

FALSE. You have the option to do the College of Winterhold at any time. It is entirely possible to join at level 1. I’ve had the gatekeeper ask me to use a Flame Spell once. And if your persuasion skill is high enough (and it doesn’t take much) you can convince her to let you in without a test of skill.

3.Open World/Random Battles

“You see while it seems like Skyrim is open, think about this, when was the last time you jumped Whiteruns wall? All cities are interior cells not exterior cells, with a couple of small exceptions(towns).”

This is actually false. Three major cities are completely open (Falkreath, Morthal, and Winterhold). And the existence of loading screens doesn’t change the fact that Skyrim is widely considered an open world. The sheer size of the main “room” in Skyrim is enough to classify it as an open world.

“Furthermore, Skyrim makes it so insanely easy to be lazy regarding fast travel it removes the exploration feature in all practical terms.”

Having an option doesn’t remove the alternative. The world in Skyrim is so vast that not having the option to fast-travel would be absurd. However, at least Skyrim gives you the option of following the open road aimlessly if you so choose.

Also, in the beginning of the game, there is nowhere the player can fast-travel. There are over 200 different locations in Skyrim to discover, and you cannot fast-travel to any of them until they are discovered. If the player is in a hurry, you can walk to Whiterun and then hire the carriage there- however, the carriages will not take you to the far reaches of the southern Jarall Mountains, or even the minor towns that dot the tundra. The carriages will not take you anywhere other than the nine major cities already marked on your map.
So the exploration in Skyrim is the opposite of removed: it is mandatory, at least in the beginning.

“Dragon Age instead makes fast-traveling mandatory BUT at least the Random Battles are conceivable and are often important to the storyline, Dragon Age almost never has a pointless random encounter. All the Random battles serve as helper to the storyline.”

My opponent contradicts himself here. “almost never” is a key phrase, but in the next sentence he insists that “ALL random battles serve to continue the story.”
The latter sentence simply isn’t true, and in any game (with the exception of Pokémon,) even one pointless random battle is too much.


4. Increased Control over Levels


“In fact some of skills are counter intuitive, the smith skill is a excellent example of this, because the creatures are leveled, if you use smithing too much the game punishes you by killing you off with harder creature then necessary, and considering this is for using the skills it is not helpful.”

The creatures are leveled based on how often you tell the game to level up. However, you can increase your skills as much as you please, all the way to 100, as long as you don’t invest in any perks just yet. If anything, the game rewards players for being intelligent, and thinking ahead.

I’m not complaining about the fact that I continue to gain skills. I simply want the option to remain at level 1 with my sneak skill at 70 if I so choose.

“But what's the point?”

It’s simply a preference. More options appeals to a wider range of people and therefore makes for a superior game.

1. My Opponent's Core Argument.


“If Dragon Age gives you more choices, it is a better RPG than Skyrim

Dragon Age gives you more choices
Therefore Dragon Age is a better RPG than Skyrim

The first premise seems obvious, aside from fantasy, the major point of RPG's is the choices made and their effects, everything else is secondary.”

As I said earlier, Fantasy is completely irrelevant to RPGs. And the same can be said for Choices. The most classis example of an RPG is the Final Fantasy series. And those games, every single one of them, are 100 percent LINEAR. Therefore, the core of my opponent’s argument is completely irrelevant.

Debate Round No. 2
Center_for_Rationality

Con

A point about RPG's in nature/Point of Every Video Game objection
RPG:A role-playing game is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.
There is nothing in the definition of RPG that makes it a video game. My opponent has a false notion that all RPG's are video games or a subset of video games, as given a example of Dungeons and Dragons. There are actually three different types of RPG's, Live action role-playing is one, table top role-playing is another, and electronic media role-playing is another. But we are speaking broadly in terms of RPG's in general and therefore focusing on the only electronic media leads to the conclusion of which is a better video game but not necessarily the best RPG, and many of my opponents point are irrelevant to RPG's in general, this simply the point I was trying to make in round 2. I would like to remind my opponent of the point of role-playing games, it is to make you feel like your in a new world making new choices in order to see the outcome. As a RPG, Dragon Age implicitly and explicitly defeats Skyrim.
Accusations of Grammar issues
I thought it was rather inappropriate in a debate setting to say someone's grammar is terrible as that is for the voters to decide, but if the voters are interested, they can check my profile as I am from Scotland I may not spell or say things the exact way you guys do. Sorry if this hurt my opponents feelings.
My core argument and my opponents blatant assertion
According to a 1999 survey in the United States, 6% of 12- to 35-year-olds have played role-playing games. Of those who play regularly, two thirds play D&D. (Dancey; Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary), Products branded Dungeons & Dragons made up over fifty percent of the RPG products sold in 2005. (Hite; State of the Industry 2005). These statistics show that Dungeons and Dragons are the most popular RPG ever. It is the inspiration for all RPG-type games. Even if my opponent were correct, it would refute his own case! For example my opponents says:
"More options appeals to a wider range of people and therefore makes for a superior game. "
More options=More Choices
So while my opponent writes off my argument as being irrelevant when his case supports mine. The fact is that a key aspect of role-playing is choice without choice you cannot consider it a role-playing game. Furthermore, at the beginning of the paragraph I said aside from fantasy. My opponent either didn't read my paragraph or simply assumed that since I said aside from Fantasy I meant only Fantasy favours Dragon Age. She concedes basically.
"The world in Skyrim is so vast that not having the option to fast-travel would be absurd"
Just a point on this Daggerfall had no fast travel and it was 188,030 square miles while Skyrim is only 14.3 square miles.
Almost Never and all random
I am sorry I should have flat out said never not almost never to be modest. I retract the almost. But I would like to show what my opponents logic entails, "and in any game (with the exception of Pokémon,) even one pointless random battle is too much." that entails Skyrim by comparison has thousands upon thousands of pointless battles, there is no particular reason to have a mine that can be explored and everyone in it killed near Riverwood. Furthermore, there is no reason to include ice trolls up the way to High Hrothgar, in fact it seems more than just counter intuitive, when you first get to the mountain for that you can offer to take up the food for them, why would the older man be able to fight a Ice Troll, that more than just being pointless makes absolutely no sense. There were pilgrims that obviously would have been killed by such a creature. My opponents argument here is completely irrelevant because it is illustrated clearly in Skyrim that there are pointless random battles, and I still contend that no battle is random and pointless in Dragon Age.
College of Winterhold
My opponent mentions that persuasion option, but in order to get 35 persuasion you have to actively work for it(I just tried it to make sure) and my reference comes from experience and The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim Official Game guide. Furthermore at level one their is no possible way to join, you would need many, many items or have worked on your persuasion so extensively you would have leveled up. Objection stands.
MANY CREATURES?
What is a Falmer? A vicious snow elf that has been underground for so long that it is blind. Not exactly unique or interesting. What about Dreugar? I don't think its a leap to say they are based on conception of the undead. Chaurus' are simply big bugs similar to frostbite spiders are to spiders. Now my opponent may say well there are still some made-up or non-familiar creatures, which is true but the vast majority are not. Graphics have been the weakness of Skyrim not its strength. Not my opponent makes the outlandish claim that Dragon Age has a one hit wonder of enemies. Dragon Age has a multitude of unique and chilling monsters much more so than the humanoid-like Dreugar. Simply comparing the Dreugar and Darkspawn, which are respectively the most fought monsters in each game, they both have monsters that do different things but Darkspawn features include Race,Class, Status, and Type. The variety of the primary of enemy of Dragon Age vs Skyrim immensely favours Dragon Age, with regards to my opponents point about one hit wonder, here is a brief list of different Darkspawn alone: Genlock, Hurlock, Genlock emissary, Hurlock emissary, Genlock Alpha, Hurlock Alpha, Genlock Rogue, Shriek, possibly Shriek emissary, Ogres, Ogre Alpha, Hurlock Vanguard, etc. There are also many more creatures that are not Darkspawn(Demons, Abominations, Blood Mages,etc) so the fact my opponent says they are a one hit wonder is false and misleading.
Fantasy in RPG's
My opponent is right to a certain extent here, fantasy is not a essential characteristic of RPG's BUT Skyrim and Dragon Age are both based in Fantasy worlds and furthermore both are appealing to a audience that enjoys worlds that are based on not real but theoretical worlds. So if this was a debate about two RPG's in a post-apocalyptic world then my opponents assertion would be true however since we are talking about Fantasy worlds, and since both games are fantasy-based I think it is relevant to say that fantasy plays a key role in both games, furthermore the one with the most unique fantasy should get a edge in which is the best RPG.
Skyrim's Linearity vs Dragon Age
My opponent has not responded to the defense of Dragon Age on the basis of it not being linear since my opponent has dropped that point I will take it as a concession. Now my opponent does attempt to make a small defense of Skyrim in that she admits in order to do the main point of the game and fulfills part of your role you must complete two quests, my opponent has made a serious error after this. She says that you never have to worry about the main quest again, WRONG, if you are intent on obtaining words of power you need to at least do up to meeting Delphine. Why? Because you will not get the most useful shouts in the games which is definitely a aim of someone who is trying to be a Dragonborn type of character. In order to play the game one must complete the main quest because to do otherwise seems trivial given the role the game forces on you. My opponent may say that Dragon Age does the same thing, but this is false because the Warden always has something else he can do. What I mean by that is the Warden can always have a agenda that makes the main quest more fun and helpful.(I.E. Nature of the Beast/Dalish Elf). The main quest seems non-essential in Dragon Age while Skyrim makes it always there.
Conclusion
My opponent clearly has failed to meet her burden-of-proof, I have shown extensively the weaknesses of Skyrim compared to Dragon Age and shown Dragon Age is better as a RPG. Vote Con.
Oghren: I'm not bloody two feet tall, you swishy nug-licker!
Riza_Rosette

Pro

Riza_Rosette forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Center_for_Rationality

Con

I am guessing my opponent simply mismanaged her time and accidentally missed the deadline just a little to late. I would like to thank her for this debate but as I have nothing more to respond to(last round) I must extend my arguments :)

Ladies and Gentleman I would like to thank you for reading this debate and would like you to consider voting aganist this resolution. I have offered arguments aganist my opponents notion along with introduced a argument of my own that seems to show that Dragon Age is a better RPG than Skyrim. I strongly encourage a vote in negation today.

To people who are considering getting a RPG:
Everyone who is considering getting RPG I hope you guys go out and try Dragon Age: Origins. It is a fun game full of horror,excitment, betrayal, romance, intrigue, and action. This RPG is the complete package(even on console :P) and I believe it is the best RPG that is out today. Even people who have played Dragon Age before, give it another try. Read the Codex, it adds alot of horror and excitment to the game along with showing vital history missed in conversation and makes the game alot more enjoyable.
Heres a epic quote followed by several super funny quotes(I avoided spoilers :))



Duncan: The Chantry teaches us that it is the hubris of men which brought the darkspawn into our world. The mages had sought to usurp Heaven. But instead, they destroyed it. They were cast out, twisted and cursed by their own corruption. They returned as monsters, the first of the darkspawn. They became a blight upon the lands, unstoppable and relentless. The dwarven kingdoms were the first to fall. And from the deep roads, the darkspawn drove at us again and again, until finally we neared annihilation... until the Grey Wardens came. Men and women from every race, warriors and mages, barbarians and kings, the Grey Wardens sacrificed everything to stem the tide of darkness, and prevailed. It has been four centuries since that victory, and we have kept our vigil. We have watched and waited for the darkspawn to return. But those, who once called us heroes, have forgotten. We are few now, and our warnings have been ignored for too long. It may even be too late, for I have seen with my own eyes what lies upon the horizon. Maker help us all.


Oghren: Yep, lotta tension around here
Alistair: You think so? Do you?
Oghren: Know what I do to relieve tension?
Alistair: I hesitate to wonder
Oghren: I polish the 'ol weapon
[chuckles]
Alistair: Really?
Oghren: Yep. Give it a good shine with a dry rag. Then with a little grease
Alistair: That's disgusting!
Oghren: You're telling me you never gave your blade the 'ol spit shine?
Alistair: I think that's private
Oghren: Really?
[chuckles]
Oghren: Sodding Chantry and its rules. I like to do it right out in the open
Alistair: Where people can SEE you?
Oghren: Yep!
Alistair: Wait... What are you talking about?
Oghren: What are YOU talking about?

Wynne: Why do you occasionally refer to Alistair as "a little pike twirler"?
Oghren: Why? Has the little pike twirler taken offense?
Wynne: It's just a curious description.
Oghren: Curious? Heh, nah it's entirely true. What, you haven't seen him twirling his pike? Goes at it when he thinks no ones watching, knocks about in the trees like there's no tomorrow. Caught him just the other day, blushed all the way down to his navel, then couldn't find his shirt. I swear he's gonna hurt himself one of these days, the way he works that thing.
Wynne: I don't want to hear this anymore do I?
Oghren: I keep telling him pike's are for sticking things at long range, aye? Horses and such. Not for twirling like a sissy girl.
Wynne: Wait, you're talking about an actual pike? Like a spear?
Oghren: Obviously. What else would I be talking about?



Oghren: They tell you what to wear in the Chantry?
Leliana: You have robes and such that you must wear.
Oghren: And uh, so. Robes. What else?
Leliana: Well... sometimes there are vestments and ceremonial garments...
Oghren: Right. Right. And... and then?
Leliana: Why are you so interested in this?
Oghren: Oh sod it. Under the robes: pants? No pants?
Leliana: What?
Oghren: Stop stalling. Naked or not?
Leliana: What difference does it make?
Oghren: All right. Stonewall me. I'll find out one way or the other.
Leliana: Uh, right. Good luck with that.

Leliana: You're not just cold stone. There's a person inside you somewhere.
Shale: If there is, it's because I ate him.
Riza_Rosette

Pro

Riza_Rosette forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by emj32 4 years ago
emj32
The inner nerd of me is loving this debate. I think C_f_R has a slight advantage thus far, but Pro is doing a very good job defending his/her position.
Posted by Bull_Diesel 4 years ago
Bull_Diesel
I liked both games but I'll say that I felt more compelled to try to complete all possible content in dragon age than I do in the elder scrolls games.

I'll watch this :)
Posted by Center_for_Rationality 4 years ago
Center_for_Rationality
Skyrim books have been used over and over since Morrowind and they rarely convey meaningful information, when they do it is often trival and unclear. The Codex entries always have meaning and also I would argue that they give you much more relavent from a personal perspective. The Chanters board quests help introduce you to the Chantry and furthermore Chantry board quests help establish the personhood of your character, now from a role-playing perspective as the resolution is stated, a Anti-Chantry character would not take Chantry quests.

Would you miss anything by skipping the Chantry quests?
Well other than the practical aspects such as leveling or gold gaining, there are many other things that the Chantry board helps the main character understand. The Chantry plays a pivotal role in Ferelden Society, it helps to the connection between Chantry and everyday life. The Chantry helps enforce Mercenary-like behavior and from a role playing perspective that is very important because the Chantry is the major source of power in the Dragon Age world. Furthermore, missing the chanters board neccessarily implies the loss of Chanters purpose and also illustrates the goals of the Chantry overall. You miss a entirely neccessary aspect of Ferelden. Other places the Chantry is mentioned but besides the Chanters board direct interaction with the Chantry is nearly impossible.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
It's true that most of DAO's quests try to convey some sense of story, but a large number of Skyrim's quests actually have backstory in the form of books. I remember several memorable instances where I'd go to my characters house, sit down in a chair and read through the books relating to the quest (such as the one about the Ice queen) before setting out to complete it.

Of course, if by meaningless, you mean the quests don't contribute to the overall story, I agree, but neither do the Chanter's board quest accomplish this. You could skip them all without missing anything pertinent to the story.
Posted by Center_for_Rationality 4 years ago
Center_for_Rationality
I disagree while there may be more actual things you can do there are not more relavent things you can do. Dragon Age doesn't have meaningless quests, not even the Chanters board is meaningless.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
After 80 hours, your character is insanely overpowered. I agree that it gets redundant, but only if you're too strong. Fortunately, if you play the PC version, you can download a user made patch that ups the difficulty and rebalances the enemies.

In regards to DAO, I've played through it 3 times, but that's simply because I love the story so much. Overall, there's simply so much more you can do in Skyrim/
Posted by Heineken 4 years ago
Heineken
DAO has better re-playability. Skyrim has way better graphics, but the game play become very redundant after the first 80 hours or so.
Posted by emj32 4 years ago
emj32
I've never played skyrim, but I've played DA:O. Origins was one of the best games I've ever played. The storyline was incredible, the enviorment was breathtaking, and the overall feeling of the game was incredible. But like I said, i've never played Elder Scrolls, or I'd maybe take the debate.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
I've played and love both games, but only think Origins is superior in the story department. Skyrim rapes in the gameplay and replayability. I'd take this debate, but I probably don't have the time.
Posted by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
I'll be watching this. I've heard of Dragon Age and I've been looking for a new RPG.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by TigerTime 4 years ago
TigerTime
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 4 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
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Reasons for voting decision: F.F.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit. Con also finished with a strong point that the debate is about which is the best RPG, not which is the best video game, and that RPGs are not a subset of video games. AD&D predates Pong.
Vote Placed by philochristos 4 years ago
philochristos
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.